So - United We Fall ?

[Frogfish]

This was from another thread but I thought it worthy of a new one. What do you think on the evidence so far ? United supporters thought they would sweep all before them again and couldn't understand why we were being tipped or Chelsea are favourites, now they are all but ready to slaughter their team.

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35349.msg929306#msg929306 date=1250798413]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35349.msg929215#msg929215 date=1250789211]
I will be honest ... unless United get Ribery I don't rate them AT ALL this season. Chelsea are the ones I'm worried about.
[/quote]

The Chavs ought to be favourites and probably are, but we write ManUre off at our peril. They have the winning habit, added to which the authorities and the media let their manager get away with murder (some of the time at any rate). I'd love to be able to agree with you, but I don't think they'll be too far away.
[/quote]

United have been worse than disjointed so far this season. Rooney / Berbatov / Owen has not yet clicked in any combination as a front line - and I don't see it happening. They need a big signing or a clever signing, Ronaldo and Tevez are big big misses whose influence, as matters stand, Ol Red Nose seems to have under estimated. Don't write off another signing before the end of the transfer season.

However their problems run deeper than that. United's midfield is not what it was, it is old and creaking and there is depth but not enough class players in their prime.

Carrick is hardly world class and he is the best player in their midfield ranks - but not so far, he is getting absolutely slated by their fans.
Fletcher had a great season last year but he will need to do it again and there has been no sign of that in his 3 games so far (inc. Scotland vs Norway where he was utter shite).
Giggs & Scholes won't last the season - especially when all the big CL matches start too, and they are not going to carry the midfield alone anyway.
Anderson is like Babel, all potential, and flatters only to deceive.
On the wing Nani is another in the same vein as Anderson, blows cold, cold, hot, cold cold.

Better to beat most but not good enough to win the league.

 

[Avmenon]

Don't do this, Froggy.

 

[Ryan]

Genuinely now.

Why did you take two posts from another thread, and decide to continue discussing them in a new thread?

 

[jimmy]

Way too early to do that.
History has taught us to never underestimate Alex Ferguson.

 

[Farkmaster]

These threads about Man U are fucking retarded. Not only have we not performed particularly well thus far either, but all recent evidence suggests that the fact that they don't look good at the beginning of the season is irrelevant.

In fact, Man U didn't "look" particularly good for most of last season, and it didn't matter. They found ways to win.

They are more likely to win the title than us, and setting everything else aside, one reason is because they've been there again and again and again. There is more belief. They are comfortable leading the league, for us we prefer to have an improbable comeback.

I'm all for shitting all over them should they falter and we win, but not only is it massively premature, there's no reason to think their failure neccesarily means our success anyway. Chelsea could easily win the league as well, afterall, both of their rivals from last year have gone backward.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35376.msg929453#msg929453 date=1250832934]
Genuinely now.

Why did you take two posts from another thread, and decide to continue discussing them in a new thread?
[/quote]

Because I like the subject matter and it will get debated more in a new thread than it will in an older thread re. LW problems.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929460#msg929460 date=1250837381]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35376.msg929453#msg929453 date=1250832934]
Genuinely now.

Why did you take two posts from another thread, and decide to continue discussing them in a new thread?
[/quote]

Because I like the subject matter and it will get debated more in a new thread than it will in an older thread re. LW problems.
[/quote]

In fairness, there is three pages of it in the "From a UTD fan" thread just a couple down from this.

Anyways, I'll say the same as I did in that one - Farky is bang on. It's too early.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35376.msg929456#msg929456 date=1250835525]
These threads about Man U are fucking retarded. Not only have we not performed particularly well thus far either, but all recent evidence suggests that the fact that they don't look good at the beginning of the season is irrelevant.

In fact, Man U didn't "look" particularly good for most of last season, and it didn't matter. They found ways to win. That was last and this is a Ronaldo & Tevez less this !

They are more likely to win the title than us, and setting everything else aside, one reason is because they've been there again and again and again. There is more belief. They are comfortable leading the league, for us we prefer to have an improbable comeback. That is what we are debating - whether with this team they actually ARE more likely to win it. Several managers / commentators disagree with your ascertion and you level no evidence except that they have been there before - with a different team.

I'm all for shitting all over them should they falter and we win, but not only is it massively premature, there's no reason to think their failure neccesarily means our success anyway. It's also not a reason not to debate the strengths of their current squad. Chelsea could easily win the league as well, afterall, both of their rivals from last year have gone backward.
[/quote]

re. Chelsea - well isn't that what I inferred when referring to them as the bookies favourites ?

re. United - sorry guys I am not a believer that whatever we discuss here on SCM, whether derogatory or not as far as United is concerned, will have one iota of influence on what happens. Jung would turn in his grave.

What is it that we can discuss Liverpool, or most other teams, but any debate re. United is considered a major faux pas ! Superstition ?

It is a highly debatable subject, is their midfield weaker and can it sustain a ful season ? Is their forward line as potent as previously ? Without reinforcements can they win the league ? Are these not debatable subjects ? On United forums they are even debating if they can retain a CL slot !! Yet it seems we can't debate their ability to win the league :🙂

If you think they will win it then state why their attack & midfield are good enough, don't just shoot down the thread.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=35376.msg929461#msg929461 date=1250837540]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929460#msg929460 date=1250837381]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35376.msg929453#msg929453 date=1250832934]
Genuinely now.

Why did you take two posts from another thread, and decide to continue discussing them in a new thread?
[/quote]

Because I like the subject matter and it will get debated more in a new thread than it will in an older thread re. LW problems.
[/quote]

In fairness, there is three pages of it in the "From a UTD fan" thread just a couple down from this.

Anyways, I'll say the same as I did in that one - Farky is bang on. It's too early.
[/quote]

Ah I missed that .. seen so many knee-jerks on Red Cafe lacking reasoned debate and the opening comment seemed like it was just that with no evidence or support for their opinion.

 

[Insignificance]

United is the best team in the world to dig out a result of any game.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

At this current point we have two threads about the supposed demise of United at the top of our forum.
Does that make us look a little obsessed?
Anyone who writes off United does so at their peril, and these threads may come back to haunt them

regards

 

[Frogfish]

Today :

Chelsea midfielder Frank Lampard has told Manchester United that only Lionel Messi could step in for Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United.
Lampard still believes United can be in the shake-up but also believes the departure of the Portuguese winger to Real Madrid has helped bring the reigning champions back to the Premier League pack.

No more or less than the point I was making.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929471#msg929471 date=1250840544]
At this current point we have two threads about the supposed demise of United at the top of our forum.
Does that make us look a little obsessed? No - other clubs forums debate Liverpool in detail and sometimes make excellent assessments and points. It's not obsession at all - we are discussing one of our main rivals - and in our case our most bitter rival. What's wrong with that ?
Anyone who writes off United does so at their peril, and these threads may come back to haunt them

regards
[/quote]

 

[rebel23]

according to the times they dropped 2 points all last season against the bottom 12 teams - a draw at home to Newcastle first day of the season. They have now dropped 3 so far. that shows you how good Ronaldo was at decimating the smaller teams. it will be very interesting to see their points total this season as I have suspected they have been a one man team for a few years

 

[the count]

I am quietly confident that we will be ahead of Man U come season end.
Unfortunately I don't think that it will be enough to win No 19 with the only crumb of comfort being that they wont either.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929517#msg929517 date=1250845470]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929471#msg929471 date=1250840544]
At this current point we have two threads about the supposed demise of United at the top of our forum.
Does that make us look a little obsessed? No - other clubs forums debate Liverpool in detail and sometimes make excellent assessments and points. It's not obsession at all - we are discussing one of our main rivals - and in our case our most bitter rival. What's wrong with that ?
Anyone who writes off United does so at their peril, and these threads may come back to haunt them

regards
[/quote]
[/quote]
It does not take two threads to do that.

1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion.
QED


regards

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929527#msg929527 date=1250846198]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929517#msg929517 date=1250845470]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929471#msg929471 date=1250840544]
At this current point we have two threads about the supposed demise of United at the top of our forum.
Does that make us look a little obsessed? No - other clubs forums debate Liverpool in detail and sometimes make excellent assessments and points. It's not obsession at all - we are discussing one of our main rivals - and in our case our most bitter rival. What's wrong with that ?
Anyone who writes off United does so at their peril, and these threads may come back to haunt them

regards
[/quote]
[/quote]
It does not take two threads to do that.

1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion.
QED

regards
[/quote]

Compulsive ? 2 Threads are compulsive ? And neither of those definitions fit.

I have already said that I didn't see the first thread.

Someone can always merge them (*oh how I hate saying that*) if they wish !

 

[Avmenon]

If 'merge' means tying heavy weights around their ankles and dumping them in the North Sea, then yes.

Please merge them.

 

[Avmenon]

Sorry, Froggy...but they've done this too many time already.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35376.msg929538#msg929538 date=1250846952]
Sorry, Froggy...but they've done this too many time already.
[/quote]

What is that disclaimer found on the bottom of all those forms you sign when donating all your hard earned cash to investment funds ?

 

[Avmenon]

'I know you think you're going to get a healthy return, but it's actually going to our fund manager's retreat in Barbados'

;D

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Froggy, Froggy, Froggy
Don't get your knickers in a twist over this old son.
I was asking a question. Your semi-hysterical reaction speaks volumes.
United slipped up against Burnley, they also slipped up early doors last year to Newcastle.
It is far to early to start crowing yet, just as it was too early for people to suggest we were not contenders because we lost away at Spurs.
Yes on paper they are weaker than last year, but as I said , never write them off like this it will only come back to bite you on the arse

regards

 

[doctor_mac]

Although, playing Devil's Advocate, at the beginning of last season when they looked shite, Ronaldo was injured with his leg in a cast, working on his tan. He can't come back into the side this time.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35376.msg929550#msg929550 date=1250847274]
'I know you think you're going to get a healthy return, but it's actually going to our fund manager's retreat in Barbados'

;D
[/quote]

Exactly ! History does not portend of the future. A Ronaldo & Tevez less future with aging squad players !

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35376.msg929558#msg929558 date=1250847567]
Although, playing Devil's Advocate, at the beginning of last season when they looked shite, Ronaldo was injured with his leg in a cast, working on his tan. He can't come back into the side this time.
[/quote]

True, but my advice on caution still stands

regards

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929553#msg929553 date=1250847400]
Froggy, Froggy, Froggy
Don't get your knickers in a twist over this old son.
I was asking a question. Your semi-hysterical reaction speaks volumes.
United slipped up against Burnley, they also slipped up early doors last year to Newcastle.
It is far to early to start crowing yet, just as it was too early for people to suggest we were not contenders because we lost away at Spurs.
Yes on paper they are weaker than last year, but as I said , never write them off like this it will only come back to bite you on the arse

regards
[/quote]

Sorry mate ... I'm very depressed today, a close friend dropped dead on the golf course - same age as me and a close golfing friend for the last 10 years. Really on a downer and ready to bite heads off, I'm just not seeing anything straight. I came on here to relieve the tension and think of something else.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929561#msg929561 date=1250847770]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929553#msg929553 date=1250847400]
Froggy, Froggy, Froggy
Don't get your knickers in a twist over this old son.
I was asking a question. Your semi-hysterical reaction speaks volumes.
United slipped up against Burnley, they also slipped up early doors last year to Newcastle.
It is far to early to start crowing yet, just as it was too early for people to suggest we were not contenders because we lost away at Spurs.
Yes on paper they are weaker than last year, but as I said , never write them off like this it will only come back to bite you on the arse

regards
[/quote]

Sorry mate ... I'm very depressed today, a close friend dropped dead on the golf course - same age as me and a close golfing friend for the last 10 years. Really on a downer and ready to bite heads off, I'm just not seeing anything straight. I came on here to relieve the tension and think of something else.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that. It's a terrible thing for all the friends and family left behind, and really I don't mean this to sound frivolous, but if you are going to go that's the way to do it

regards

 

[Avmenon]

Sorry to hear that,Froggy.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929566#msg929566 date=1250848038]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35376.msg929561#msg929561 date=1250847770]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35376.msg929553#msg929553 date=1250847400]
Froggy, Froggy, Froggy
Don't get your knickers in a twist over this old son.
I was asking a question. Your semi-hysterical reaction speaks volumes.
United slipped up against Burnley, they also slipped up early doors last year to Newcastle.
It is far to early to start crowing yet, just as it was too early for people to suggest we were not contenders because we lost away at Spurs.
Yes on paper they are weaker than last year, but as I said , never write them off like this it will only come back to bite you on the arse

regards
[/quote]

Sorry mate ... I'm very depressed today, a close friend dropped dead on the golf course - same age as me and a close golfing friend for the last 10 years. Really on a downer and ready to bite heads off, I'm just not seeing anything straight. I came on here to relieve the tension and think of something else.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that. It's a terrible thing for all the friends and family left behind, and really I don't mean this to sound frivolous, but if you are going to go that's the way to do it

regards
[/quote]

True. Leaves behind a wife and a 5 yr old daughter. Tragic, wonderful guy - hell of a shock at 50 yrs old.

Thanks Avy.

 

[Y1]

wowser, sorry to hear that frogf. condolences.

i have heard of people dropping off in the badminton court but in the golf course?