• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

So pace,...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dreambeliever

Will he believe again?
Member
Someone mentioned it in match thread.

We used to have the slowest one dimensional team under GED and even Rafa for a time.

Even kenny's and Roy's teams lacked blistering pace.

Utd always had it and now we finally do.

How big a factor is it?

I know Ryan thinks its worth fuck all without intelligent enter changing players who have good close control,
But fuck me the pace at which our front 4 attack is unplayable at times. And then you have Ibe to come in as we'll.

I think it's one of the major factors in our upturn under Rodgers
 
A good youth coach in my area looks for pace first. "I can teach everything else, but not speed". Sterling obviously has been very well coached this last year, but the raw pace makes such a difference.
 
I think you've answered your own question. It means fuck all unless they're intelligent inter-changing players with good control.

Which thankfully for us are their main attributes. Sterling and Sturridge's pace is a very nice bonus. We're absolutely lethal on the counter thanks to that.
 
I know Ryan thinks its worth fuck all without intelligent enter changing players who have good close control,


Any kind of team is fecked without that. But yes, pace allied to intelligence is fantastic. (And even one pacy player without intelligence can be great in the very short term, as Ronny Rosenthal showed.)
 
I think you've answered your own question. It means fuck all unless they're intelligent inter-changing players with good control.

Which thankfully for us are their main attributes. Sterling and Sturridge's pace is a very nice bonus. We're absolutely lethal on the counter thanks to that.
We've had intelligent players before though and could never perform like we have. I think pace is the no1 attribute needed to be successful. The rest falls in line after that.

Did you see how the CBS just gave up on Sturrigde
 
6r6kz.jpg
 
A good youth coach in my area looks for pace first. "I can teach everything else, but not speed". Sterling obviously has been very well coached this last year, but the raw pace makes such a difference.
Is he really a good youth coach then? I would suggest with that attitude his teams win a lot but can he really "teach them everything else"? Having players with superior athleticism is generally a great way to win youth games, which is fun until the players come up against peers their own size or speed + they find kick and run doesnt work anymore.
 
Is he really a good youth coach then? I would suggest with that attitude his teams win a lot but can he really "teach them everything else"? Having players with superior athleticism is generally a great way to win youth games, which is fun until the players come up against peers their own size or speed + they find kick and run doesnt work anymore.

With genuinely fast players though, kick and run is a very underused tactic. Sterling has massive success with it for example, it's definitely more of a tool than a bad habit to punish teams who play slower wide players.
 
We've had intelligent players before though and could never perform like we have. I think pace is the no1 attribute needed to be successful. The rest falls in line after that.

Did you see how the CBS just gave up on Sturrigde
More than anything, you need good, well-rounded players. Suarez isn't particularly pacy. Neither is Coutinho.

18 months ago, Sterling was nothing but pace. He is great now, because he has added strength and intelligence to his game. Sturridge has immaculate close control and great finishing.

If pace was the no. 1 attribute, Babel and Cisse would've been boss. They weren't.
 
More than anything, you need good, well-rounded players. Suarez isn't particularly pacy. Neither is Coutinho.

18 months ago, Sterling was nothing but pace. He is great now, because he has added strength and intelligence to his game. Sturridge has immaculate close control and great finishing.

If pace was the no. 1 attribute, Babel and Cisse would've been boss. They weren't.


I think players who are excellent athletes have a better chance at being excellent footballer, which is a bit of what Dreamy is saying.

You just end up with those players who can never fully develop their game at fullback.
 
I think players who are excellent athletes have a better chance at being excellent footballer, which is a bit of what Dreamy is saying.

You just end up with those players who can never fully develop their game at fullback.
But isn't basic athleticism the bare minimum you'd want in a professional footballer? The stamina to last 90 mins, the strength to hold your own against others, and good mobility - you don't turn pro without those attributes. I take those as a given.

Beyond that, incremental advantages in athleticism does not, for me, take priority over all-round skill development. There are countless examples of extremely pacy and athletic footballers who're completely shit otherwise. Cissokho is a prime example. Babel, Cisse, and Agbonlahor are more middle-of-the-pack examples. There are tons of others.

If you're both wonderfully skilled and an outstanding athlete (a'la Ronaldo or Henry), nothing like it. But I don't think its right to say that excellent athletes have a better chance at being better footballers.
 
Pace can also in the mind, if you are already ahead in thought you have a two yard start.
 
More than anything, you need good, well-rounded players. Suarez isn't particularly pacy. Neither is Coutinho.

18 months ago, Sterling was nothing but pace. He is great now, because he has added strength and intelligence to his game. Sturridge has immaculate close control and great finishing.

If pace was the no. 1 attribute, Babel and Cisse would've been boss. They weren't.

Sturridge is quicker than suarez, but suarez is quicker than sturridge when running with the ball. Pace makes a huge deal, but obviously football intelligence and skill are just as important.
 
We've been talking about our lack of pace for years.

Our problem has been that we've always had a one-dimensional pacey player with the likes of Babel and Cisse.

It's PACE and SKILL/ABILITY which is what we've been lacking.

Sterling, Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho have given us that. We still need a lot more (in all areas) for a consistent title challenge (and to have options off the bench).
 
043:38PM GMT
Chelsea prove that speed is key in modern football

Posted by Michael Cox
The most significant feature of football's recent strategic development -- more than possession football, false nines, high defensive lines or inverted wingers -- has been something extremely simple: speed.

Football has never been faster. Watch a match from the mid-to-late 1990s, a period recent enough that a few players (Ryan Giggs, Javier Zanetti, Francesco Totti) link both eras, and the play appears astonishingly slow. Gaps open up, but players don't charge into them. Counterattacks are conducted at a gentle pace; the player in possession pauses to check his options, turning one way, then changing his mind and distributing the ball the other. Pace was a bonus rather than a requisite, often the domain of wingers and maybe the odd striker.

Today, pace is everything. It's why counterattacking is so dangerous, why physical conditioning is so crucial and partly why Italian clubs -- accustomed to playing at a gentle pace -- have recently underachieved in Europe. It's also why when a Manchester United-supporting prankster recently tricked Chelsea fans outside Stamford Bridge, quizzing them about fictional transfer targets, they pretend to know about his speed.

"He's quick. He's got pace on him, definitely," one says. "He's very fast," adds another. It's a reasonable assumption. In today's world, which promising youngster isn't quick?

Man City 0-1 Chelsea:
- Brewin: Mourinho keeps calm after big win
- Mooney: Loss not disastrous for City
- Lythell: Classy Chelsea get it done
- Three Things: Hazard key in CFC success
- Report: Blues stun Man City
- Burley: What Man City did wrong
- FC TV: No parked buses at the Etihad

It’s an especially understandable guess considering the side Jose Mourinho is assembling at Chelsea. Monday night's 1-0 victory over Manchester City was an extremely impressive, controlled performance that was more dominant than the winning margin would suggest.

Chelsea defended solidly, attacked in numbers, and while they weren't entirely reliant upon the counterattack, in those situations they broke at extraordinary speed. Their four-against-one counterattack midway through the first half summed it up: Willian leading the charge, Samuel Eto'o available on the right, and Ramires and Eden Hazard sprinting down the left.

Eto'o lacks the pace of his younger years, but his runs are still sharp. The key to Chelsea's speed on the break, though, was the performance of the three behind him: Willian, Hazard and Ramires. All three are fast. The fascinating thing about this trio, though, is that "fast" isn't detailed enough to explain their respective styles. They're fast, but fast in entirely different ways.
soc_g_hazard11_576x324.jpg
PAUL ELLIS/AFP/Getty ImagesEden Hazard frequently tormented Man City on Monday night with his ability to accelerate in the dribble.

The men's 100-metre Olympic final features the eight quickest men on the planet, but they have different styles and separate strengths. When Usain Bolt broke the 100 record in Beijing in 2008, he recorded the second-slowest start of the eight contenders, but by 70 metres he was so far ahead that he was able to slow down. Others were quicker out of the blocks, but no one could match his top gear.

In a footballing context, seemingly every debate can be linked back to Lionel Messi vs. Cristiano Ronaldo. In 2009, A fascinating study by researchers at the University of Coruña, seemingly stretching the boundaries of their research project, revealed that Messi is marginally quicker than Ronaldo over short distances -- in the first five metres Messi hits 20 kph, Ronaldo just 18 kph. When you measure speed over 15 metres, however, Ronaldo is the winner, hitting 30 kph compared to Messi’s 28 kph. They're marginal differences, perhaps, but the point stands.

Back to Chelsea: Their three attacking midfielders Monday night had three separate types of pace. Willian has incredible acceleration over relatively short distances, Hazard has brilliant midrange speed and Ramires is a long-distance speedster. The three approaches were all crucial in Chelsea's win.

Willian's deployment in the central attacking midfield role was reminiscent of the way Mourinho used Mesut Ozil at Real Madrid. Although given fewer defensive responsibilities than Willian, Ozil's attacking game depended upon him making consistent, short sharp bursts into the channels, often by running laterally. Mourinho considered Juan Mata, for example, unable to do this.
soc_g_willian_576x324.jpg
Andrew Yates/AFP/Getty ImagesWillian's speed off the mark makes him a challenging proposition.

The Brazilian is even quicker than Ozil, but there's a similarity in their movement -- Willian seems to charge down defenders from a standing start extremely quickly. If there's a loose ball in midfield, the Brazilian always seems to get there first and is into his stride quicker than anyone else. He rarely sprints over long distances, but his acceleration over short range never seems to fade as the match continues.

Eden Hazard, meanwhile, is quick from a standing start, but that's not his specialty. He's more effective when suddenly moving up through the gears -- perhaps from about second gear to fifth gear, in the blink of an eye. He embarrassed Pablo Zabaleta on Monday with an astonishing burst of speed that was so humiliating for the Argentine because he clearly knew what to expect -- he backed off, waiting for the moment to turn and sprint, but still couldn't get close to the Chelsea man.

It's not the first time, either -- Hazard has been embarrassing defenders regularly in recent weeks, most notably when Manchester United captain Nemanja Vidic was so frustrated that he launched into a reckless, dangerous tackle on the Belgian in stoppage time, earning himself a straight red card. Hazard has moments of trickery, certainly -- there was a brilliant run from an inside-left channel that beat two defenders (and somewhat oddly, the referee, too) but he's also capable of knocking past a defender and running onto it.

Then there's Ramires. He doesn't have the acceleration of Willian and not quite the pace of Hazard. But over a long distance, he's unbeatable. The Brazilian was guilty of wasting Chelsea's clearest chance yesterday, on that four-on-one break which ended with his tame, curled shot that allowed Joe Hart to make an easy save. He only seems to be comfortable finishing from inside-right positions, shooting across the goalkeeper's body.

However, rewind to the start of the move and watch where Ramires begins his run. As Alvaro Negredo misplaces a pass by a bafflingly huge margin, Ramires is the player pressuring the Spaniard, goal-side of him, close to his own penalty box. Ten seconds later, he's in the opposition box applying the finish -- with no opponents in sight. In Brazil with Cruzeiro, he was affectionately known as the "Queniano Azul" (the "Blue Kenyan") for his speed and endurance over long distances. It remains an appropriate nickname.

It remains to be seen whether raw speed, even its different guises, will be enough for Chelsea to win the league. It's easy to witness this performance and understand why Mourinho didn't require Mata, yet rarely will Chelsea be allowed to attack so reactively and use their speed to such devastating effect in attack.

When the opportunity presents itself, however, Chelsea's pace will continue to be both thrilling and devastatingly effective.
 
Liverpool employ pace & defensive organization to thrash Arsenal

LIKE THIS ARTICLE
chevron-w.gif
6

By Tyrrell Meertins
Feb 8, 2014 - 16 hours ago in Sports



SHARE
0 1 2 0 GOOGLE +0
+

Brendan Rodgers' pragmatism has earned significant results against the top-sides in the Premier League, this season. Victories against Everton and Spurs have displayed Liverpool's ability to combine defensive organization with quick, attacking flair.

Liverpool’s XI hinted that they would play on the counter-attack with the only significant change being Luis Suarez fielded on the right, and Daniel Sturridge leading the line. Arsene Wenger was still without the suspended Mathieu Flamini and injured Aaron Ramsey, so Jack Wilshere and Mikel Arteta sat in the double-pivot.

The Reds have improved their home form over the past 12 months. Once a team that produced timid performances – which lacked goals – have developed into a ruthless home outfit. "Our home form has been brilliant and that is vitally important for any team, especially a team who wants to be challenging at the top of the table," Rodgers said. "We are going to go into each game looking to win the game. There is a greater confidence now,"

Read more...
Hazard fires Chelsea top after Arsenal crash
Wenger backs Arsenal to shine in crucial Premier League spell
Rodgers rules Liverpool out of title race

A significant contrast between both sides is the period in which they peak during matches – Liverpool have scored 66 percent of their goals in the first half, while Arsene Wenger’s side enjoy 69 percent in the second – as Liverpool tend to be quick starters, whereas the league leaders grow into matches. With Arsenal aiming to extend their lead at the top of the league, containing Liverpool’s high-octane attack was crucial.

It would be harsh to blame Wenger for Arsenal’s poor start, as the Gunners were down two goals in the opening 10 minutes. Martin Skrtel broke free on two separate occasions to guide Steven Gerrard’s set-piece deliveries past Wojciech Szczesny. The main issue Arsenal encountered was the protection provided in front of their backline. Mikel Arteta endured one of his worst performances of the season, as the Spaniard struggled to cope with the frenetic pace. Arteta is a ball-playing midfielder, and far from a proficient tackler, but with Flamini suspended, the Spaniard was handed a colossal task that we was unable to complete.

However, Rodgers’ men were organized in midfield. Phillipe Coutinho quickly closed down Jack Wilshere, frustrating the English midfielder throughout the match. Gerrard and Henderson closed down space ahead of the backline that peripheral figures Mesut Ozil and Santi Cazorla hoped to penetrate, while Suarez and Raheem Sterling pegged Arsenal’s fullbacks into their own half.

"We were brilliant today, a wonderful performance in such a prestigious game between the two teams. We do a lot of work on our pressing. I always feel if we press well, we can pass well,” Rodgers said. “To play like that, not just the result, but the performance level was absolutely out of this world. I'm very pleased and it's another marker for us that we're getting better and improving all the time."

Likewise, to their victories against Spurs, and Everton – along with their performance at the Ethiad – Liverpool were rampant on the counter attack. Prior to Liverpool’s third goal, Sterling and Sturridge found pockets of space to receive the ball and create goal-scoring opportunities. With Arsenal committing men forward in search of a goal, there was plenty of space to attack.

Subsequently, Rodgers’ men used their pace on the counter to put the match out of sight. Henderson dispossessed Ozil at the halfway line, and quickly drove forward, playing the ball wide to Suarez, and the Uruguayan squared it to an unmarked Sterling. Afterwards, Coutinho intercepted Ozil’s poor pass, and played a delightful ball behind the Arsenal backline for Sturridge, and he coolly slotted his shot past Szczesny.

Wenger’s men were shell-shocked. They were blitzed on the counter when they pushed too many forward, and deprived the required space to trouble Rodgers’ side – simply, they couldn’t cope with the pace of the match or Liverpool’s pressure. Arsenal was further punished in the second half when Kolo Toure’s simple over-the-top ball played in Sterling, thus inflicting more wounds in the Gunners’ timid display.

The Gunners produced a lethargic performance that lacked intensity and guile in possession, and without a legitimate defensive midfielder, Liverpool’s pacy attacking four exposed their back line. "On the concentration level, on pace, on defensive stability, it was very poor and we always looked vulnerable. Overall our performance was just not good enough and I include myself in that performance,” Wenger said.

Rodgers’ side has evolved over the past year, but so has the Liverpool manager. Although his side is encouraged to sustain possession, he’s displayed that he’s willing to add a touch of pragmatism when required – top four looks certain at the moment, but optimists wouldn’t rule out a late title surge.


Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/sport...o-thrash-arsenal/article/369601#ixzz2spJOGsGK
 
Raw pace alone is not enough. Yes, it definitely requires players with an understanding enough of the game to know what to do when they do and don't have the ball, as well as pace, but it also requires a manager who knows how best to use those players and how to harness and use those attributes correctly.
 
We break from deep, and in numbers - it's a clear tactic. Sure pace is important to that, but the movement, touch and deep counter attack are more so.

Besides, Arsenal have no pace and have been top of the league all year. Citty have no real pace in the side, same for United, and but for Hazard - Chelsea have fuck all either.

Pace is wholly overrated.
 
We break from deep, and in numbers - it's a clear tactic. Sure pace is important to that, but the movement, touch and deep counter attack are more so.

Besides, Arsenal have no pace and have been top of the league all year. Citty have no real pace in the side, same for United, and but for Hazard - Chelsea have fuck all either.

Pace is wholly overrated.

Chelsea have no pace?

Willian, Eto, Ramires, are plenty quick. They also have Salah now, and Atsu on loan.

United have less, but it's a stupid example for you to use given how much they've struggled lately.

City have Navas and Aguero to provide pace, as well as other options like Clichy.

Arsenal have been worse since losing Walcott, but still have Ox and Podolski available. Gibbs is quick too.
 
Willian is very quick over ground with the ball, Ramires is fast too, Eto'o is hardly Sturridge, but he ain't a slouch. And as for Man City, Clichy, Navas, Aguero are very quick and Zabaletta can shift as well. They certainly aren't lacking in pace.
 
Yes because Walcott and ox are slow??
No surprise they are struggling with 1 or 2 of them out

If you think the Chelsea team that smashed city on the break, which is the same team that let mata go because he slows counter attacks up too much with to many touches hasn't hot lightening pace your daft or being a prick.

Which is it today Ryan?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom