Harsh, most players turn away like that in every game, not exactly on Nasri levels of shithousery.
So, our actual problems
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Harsh, most players turn away like that in every game, not exactly on Nasri levels of shithousery.
It is somewhat harsh but he has a point, the thing I find more worrying about Kolo is that he seems to get himself into a blind panic mode at least once per game for a few minutes and starts wildly hacking at the ball in an effort to get rid of it.
That said hes a better physical presence than any of our other defenders, hes more vocal in terms of organising his teammates and hes very strong in the air.
Shithouse players get no sympathy from me and shouldn't ever be wearing the red, you could trawl through every PL game played and find players turning their back on shots, its a natural thing to do most of the time, if it was Nasri style then there would be a problem but that seems harsh, i dunno, its a strange one you don't tend to associate centre backs with being bottlers.
He does have some strange moments and he is a bit mental for sure but from what we have seen so far the good far outweighs the bad.
Well if he could he could command a starting place when injured, we'd have all sorts of other problems that we should be worrying about.
I know this, I'm just saying as far as form goes, he's had long enough to but out those lapses, in the long run I'm not holding out any hope for him, but in the meantime he's the best we've got and there are more pressing issues, agreed.
Come the Summer though I wouldn't be surprised if we were actively looking for two fullbacks.
I think yourself and Ryan have deliberately missed the fact that for the majority of the time he's been here, he's been pretty poor, certainly moreso than good anyway and nowhere near justifying the £15m layout.
I think that was an overall point and not a kneejerk reaction to one game, though obviously the benefit of a lengthy layoff means we can start afresh and pretend the first season of a few good games and then months of poor form can be forgotten about.
I think the problem with Allen (and Henderson to a lesser extent) is that the role he is asked to play keeps changing. When he started in the team he was the middle of the three midfielders in terms of position - not the deepest, not the furthest forward. Then Lucas got injured and Allen had to play deeper, and his form started to go. Since then he's not had a settled position in the side. It's a similar situation with Henderson but he's a slightly more versatile player.
I rate Allen, but he needs to be played in his best position, which again is the middle of the three midfielders (I know that's a simplification). Not the pivot, but essentially the player in the centre of the midfield who keeps the team ticking over. We don't have a settled defensive trio and we don't have a settled midfield combination that works.
I don't think pointing fingers at individuals is the answer but how to fit Gerrard into the team is a major problem for me. He's not quite right to be the deepest player, not quite right to be the playmaker, and not quite up to being the advanced midfielder anymore. As a result the midfield is unbalanced.
I rate Allen, but he needs to be played in his best position, which again is the middle of the three midfielders (I know that's a simplification). Not the pivot, but essentially the player in the centre of the midfield who keeps the team ticking over. We don't have a settled defensive trio and we don't have a settled midfield combination that works.
I don't think pointing fingers at individuals is the answer but how to fit Gerrard into the team is a major problem for me. He's not quite right to be the deepest player, not quite right to be the playmaker, and not quite up to being the advanced midfielder anymore. As a result the midfield is unbalanced.
Stevie, like I said in the other thread, I don't accept that. He's played more than enough games last season for me to be able to cast a fair judgement. And so far, he just hasn't impressed me. I'm not saying he's floundering in Cheyrou / Biscan / Poulsen / Dossena / Konchesky territory, but unless there's a hell of a lot more to come from him, he's just not good enough.
So yes. He's fucking struggling. If you or Ryan can't accept that, there's no point continuing this discussion. Has the Australian sun fucked up both your senses of logic?
The least you'd expect from a central defender is to take a ball to the face or balls when blocking a shot. You wouldn't see Carra shirking that and turning his back on it, nor dare I say any other to CB in the league. If he'd have stood his ground there, it wouldn't have been a goal. Can you imagine Mignolet turning his back and jumping out the way of shots.
But, as I said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him and Sakho becoming our first choice CB's.
Does being injured contribute to the struggling?
He started off well - then it all fell to shit - then he got injured.
I'm not sure the falling to shit part was entirely his fault - I am bemused by him, but I think he can I a useful job.
I still think Gerrard playing so deep is at the root of a lot of our midfield problems.
No. Being injured doesn't contribute to that fact. The fact is he was shit long before he got injured.
Although I do agree that Gerrard playing so deep is also part of the problem.
It really is a strange one as is the Mignolet example you give there, Meireles, Downing and Sahin have been amongst our biggest shithouses of recent times, Meireles and Sahin used to jump out of 50/50 tackles, disgraceful stuff and good riddance to those players.
That Toure example happens in near on every match, im not excusing it, you dont really see players facing full on all the time when a player is lining up a shot, most of the time they do turn away, i really don't think hes thinking 'ohh i don't want to get hit by the ball' and trying to get out of the way of it.
Something worth keeping an eye on though.
.
He plays in Gerrard's current position. Could be a while before he gets that chance
Another thing that doesn't get mentioned to much is the spine of the team, if any team wants to win the league it really is true that you have to have a strong spine bar the odd rare exception.
Look at us in 2009, hell of a strong spine, the old Arsenal team, Seaman, Adams, Viera, Henry, Chelsea, Cech, Terry, Essien/Makelele, Drogba.
The year City won it, An inform Hart, Kompany, YY Toure, Aguero, the mancs always had one aswell apart from last season.
We have a hole in the middle, Mignolet is good enough as is Suarez/Sturridge but it falls down in defence and midfield, obviously the Gerrard of old would of been more than good enough, hopefully Sakho will prove to be a vital piece of our jigsaw but as we all know we are desperate for some genuine quality in the middle.
Look at us in 2009, hell of a strong spine, the old Arsenal team, Seaman, Adams, Viera, Henry, Chelsea, Cech, Terry, Essien/Makelele, Drogba.
The year City won it, An inform Hart, Kompany, YY Toure, Aguero, the mancs always had one aswell apart from last season.
We have a hole in the middle, Mignolet is good enough as is Suarez/Sturridge but it falls down in defence and midfield, obviously the Gerrard of old would of been more than good enough, hopefully Sakho will prove to be a vital piece of our jigsaw but as we all know we are desperate for some genuine quality in the middle.
I don't agree.
Arsenal are top and have a shit defence, and average goalkeeper, and 2 run of the mill centre midfielders.
Arsenal don't have run of the mill centre midfielders. They have great CMs.
Arteta, the quasi-CM (who couldn't get a game in centre mid for Everton) and Flamini who couldn't find a club 4 months ago? Right.
Except they can and do play Flamini and Ramsey in centre mid as often as the other. Arteta was as much a victim of Everton's narrow play and a lack of wide men, as anything else, he's still a good option to have, for any side.
I'd take Falmini, Arteta and Ramsey over Lucas, Allen and Henderson any day of the week. They've got more options to mix it around too, than we have, given they have this lot to juggle between the triangle of three central players AND with the option of playing many of them wide also:
Arteta
Flamini
Ramsey
Wilshire
Corzola
Ozil
Rosicky
Gnabry
Plus.
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Podolski
Giroud
Between 6 positions, that's near enough two quality players for every position with most of them capable of covering at least two roles.
We have:
Lucas
Allen
Henderson
Gerrard
Sterling
Coutinho
Aspas
Alberto
Sturridge
Suarez
Moses (Loan)
Our attacking two piss on anything they've got, but aside from Gerrard (who's on the slide) and Coutinho, meh.
I'd take Falmini, Arteta and Ramsey over Lucas, Allen and Henderson any day of the week. They've got more options to mix it around too, than we have, given they have this lot to juggle between the triangle of three central players AND with the option of playing many of them wide also:
Arteta
Flamini
Ramsey
Wilshire
Corzola
Ozil
Rosicky
Gnabry
Plus.
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Podolski
Giroud
Between 6 positions, that's near enough two quality players for every position with most of them capable of covering at least two roles.
We have:
Lucas
Allen
Henderson
Gerrard
Sterling
Coutinho
Aspas
Alberto
Sturridge
Suarez
Moses (Loan)
Our attacking two piss on anything they've got, but aside from Gerrard (who's on the slide) and Coutinho, meh.
Arteta didn't usually play CM for Everton because he was the closest thing they had to a flair player, not that he couldn't play the position. Arteta is an excellent midfielder. Ramsey is very obviously a top talent. And Flamini– well you could see the likes of Lucas being without a club too, such is the kind of unfussy and unnoticed work such players do. Doesn't mean he's not an excellent player, which again, he is. Then Jack Wilshere also plays there too for them. Another technically excellent player. Yes Ryan, you're wrong.
I said teams that win the league, you given it to Arsenal already?
Also as i mentioned there is the odd exception but overall you have to have that strong spine, not sure how anyone can disagree really, look at all the PL winning teams, the evidence is there.
I think he may have had a mini-league that lasted 10 games. I still expect Chelski, or maybe City to win it.
Same here.
For me the problem with Agger-Skrtel partnership that their personalities are too different. It's usually considered a good thing, when two defenders in the partnership have different qualities, but on the other hand there also has to be enough similarity between them to form any real understanding. On paper, Agger and Skrtel seem like a classic good CB pairing of an "classy" and "attack-minded" defender with a "no-nonsense" "tough guy" type. They did play well together for one season, but maybe as they've grown older and evolved as players, each of them became more set in his own ways to the point that now sometimes they look less like a solid partnership, but more like a dysfunctional old couple.
Agger is cool and cerebral; he tries to be efficient and not extend energy unnecessarily. He is casual in his attitude; you get a sense that at any given moment he is looking at the big picture rather than getting too emotionally invested in the outcome of every given episode. Under pressure he tries to keep a cool head and calculate the risks. At his worst, he tends to switch off from the action and be taken by surprise by the opponent's level of intensity.
On the contrary, Skrtel is intensity personified. Even the simplest actions like passing the ball between defenders and the goalkeeper he takes with an almost grave sense of seriousness and focus. He thrives at making split-second decisions, making last-ditch blocks and tackles; he fully commits to every defensive action he takes on the pitch. At his worst he becomes too emotionally caught up in the moment, makes unnecessary tackles, overly robust challenges or makes wrong decisions because his mind of "overheated" from the constant focus.
When Agger and Skrtel play together as a partnership it's at times startling how different is their approach and logic. I can't believe these differences in personalities don't cause some irritation and tension. It might look good in theory to have 2 CBs with different qualities, but when one of the partners is always chill and casual and the other is emotional and intense, that might make for an excellent comedy duo, but perhaps not for a very well functioning central defense partnership.
If I were Rodgers, I would try to find another combination of defenders. Fortunately, we have enough options now.
Agger is cool and cerebral; he tries to be efficient and not extend energy unnecessarily. He is casual in his attitude; you get a sense that at any given moment he is looking at the big picture rather than getting too emotionally invested in the outcome of every given episode. Under pressure he tries to keep a cool head and calculate the risks. At his worst, he tends to switch off from the action and be taken by surprise by the opponent's level of intensity.
On the contrary, Skrtel is intensity personified. Even the simplest actions like passing the ball between defenders and the goalkeeper he takes with an almost grave sense of seriousness and focus. He thrives at making split-second decisions, making last-ditch blocks and tackles; he fully commits to every defensive action he takes on the pitch. At his worst he becomes too emotionally caught up in the moment, makes unnecessary tackles, overly robust challenges or makes wrong decisions because his mind of "overheated" from the constant focus.
When Agger and Skrtel play together as a partnership it's at times startling how different is their approach and logic. I can't believe these differences in personalities don't cause some irritation and tension. It might look good in theory to have 2 CBs with different qualities, but when one of the partners is always chill and casual and the other is emotional and intense, that might make for an excellent comedy duo, but perhaps not for a very well functioning central defense partnership.
If I were Rodgers, I would try to find another combination of defenders. Fortunately, we have enough options now.
So there it was all laid out for anybody to see. Yes we have problems in the defence but our midfield yesterday was utterly anomynous and exposed them horribly, as they have on and off for eons now. Plenty on here have been saying this for a year now, If we can see it why can't Mr Bodgers. We need an upgrade fast, move Gerrard into central defence if necessary and you don't want to drop him but fucking do SOMETHING
I am beginning to wonder if he even has a coaching plan or a strategy for our defense or does he just role the dice and start different personnel and hope that at some point something clicks. We have been trying out so many combinations, formations even. I don't get the impression that the change in formation and personnel are to neutralize specific threats of the opposition. Maybe I lack the ability and the knowledge to glean such insights. It seems a bit random now.
I think what is clear is that we require a consistent back line in order for them to become more cohesive, and whilst we change the personnel in it each week, that is not going to happen.
Rodgers needs to choose his top 2 CBs (Skrtel & Sakho IMO) and then play them for a spell of at least 12-15 games in order for them to tune in to each other. Constant tinkering is not helping anyone, let alone himself!
Rodgers needs to choose his top 2 CBs (Skrtel & Sakho IMO) and then play them for a spell of at least 12-15 games in order for them to tune in to each other. Constant tinkering is not helping anyone, let alone himself!
What doesn't help is spending £47 Million on this shower of shit (harsh on Alberto and Llori, not their fault, but they were certainly not what we needed this summer);
Allen 12.5 million
Aspas 7.9 million
Alberto 6.8 million
Borini 10 million(loan)
Llori 7 million due out on (loan)
Assaidi 2.5 million (loan)
Then, after this, Rodgers thinks yeah the reason we got hammered by Hull (I mean ffs!) is because Sturridge wasn't fit and that our 'control' of the game didn't yield enough results.
I'm getting worried, especially at the mention of 5 year contracts.
Also Ryan, you been drinking? You knock Arsenal's midfield while talking up the likes of Allen?
Allen 12.5 million
Aspas 7.9 million
Alberto 6.8 million
Borini 10 million(loan)
Llori 7 million due out on (loan)
Assaidi 2.5 million (loan)
Then, after this, Rodgers thinks yeah the reason we got hammered by Hull (I mean ffs!) is because Sturridge wasn't fit and that our 'control' of the game didn't yield enough results.
I'm getting worried, especially at the mention of 5 year contracts.
Also Ryan, you been drinking? You knock Arsenal's midfield while talking up the likes of Allen?
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