So Gary Monk got the boot

[Dreambeliever]

So the people who said he was great, are saying that simply because Swansea finished eight.

You don't know any more than that?

If the results are good, the manager must be good?

Are you really that fucking thick?

Ha ha Jesus Ross what's going on here.
Monk took over a side who were on the slide under the previous manager, steadied the ship and then got them up to 8th playing decent footy. Of course people are going to rate him based on that. What were people supposed to do? Oh wait better not say he's a good young promising manager because he might eventually get sacked by a tricker happy board. FFS

 

[Dreambeliever]

Avram Grant has a better record than Monk. Nobody ever claimed he was great.
He came within a John Terry slip of winning the Champions League despite being a shit manager hated by everyone on the team.

How do you get away with this shit, hahaha

 

[Dreambeliever]

The point remains. Nobody has ever pointed out anything that Monk has ever done as the reasons for thinking he is a good manager, apart from HC who said he finished 8th in the league with Swansea.

I've always said you need to separate process from results. To simply take a result, claim it the work of a great manager and rely on it going forward..... well we should know better by now.

But clearly many don't

What a load of rubbish. Most people do explain why. For instance with Rafa people would talk about how he set us up defensively to be very difficult to beat in Europe. How he shut out some of the best sides in world football or when he got it wrong (cl final 3-0 ht) he changed things and we kept a clean sheet for the next 75 mins while scoring 3. People almost always highlight why a team is doing well when they are. Swansea and Monk are no different.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I'm not inflexible. I'm right.

And almost nobody agrees with you and never will so why not stop posting it again and again. Modo gets banned for repetitive posting why don't you? You've been going on about managers not making a difference for years. We get your opinion already and the vast majority don't agree. You are not going to change, we are not going to change, let's leave it there

 

[Dreambeliever]

Have you not read Soccermaniacs?

Myself and Dreambeliever wrote it

Ha ha. It's actually a great book but flawed.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Ha ha. It's actually a great book but flawed.

Which review are you basing this on?

 

[Rosco]

How do you get away with this shit, hahaha

What shit?

Is any of it untrue ?

Do Monk and Grant have the same number of manager of the month awards ? Yes

Did Grant do better in the league and all the cups ? Yes .

Is Grant an undeniably shit manager, who happened upon good circumstances? Yes

So given teams will always have ups and downs with form, unless you can point to specific things a manager has done (steadied the ship is typical cliched nonsense) then I dont know how you credit a manager for anything other than being present.

Its a trap people continually fall into. Only a bona fide moron could actually say Rodgers was a decent manager for years, then a good manager for a year , then a bad manager. He was the same all the way through and just happened to be there when Suarez hit his peak and Sturridge had an unusually fit year.

What everyone does is look at the outcome and inmediately give credit to the manager , massively overdoing same and trick themselves into seeing ability that never existed.

To go back to the nautical , its like crediting a captain for being on board a ship when the tide took it to its destination. In football nobody considers the tide , occasionally they consider the boat .

 

[Mamma Mia]

I agree with Ross. We should have kept Rafa.

 

[ILD]

What shit?


To go back to the nautical , its like crediting a captain for being on board a ship when the tide took it to its destination. In football nobody considers the tide , occasionally they consider the boat .

Yeah but it wouldn't be that mental to also praise the captain if he did a good job, or if he organised his deck efficiently and delegated his staff en route to reaching their destination. He deserves some praise as well as realising that the boat and tide helped him greatly.

I don't think anyone would be claiming he was the best captain ever or reaching the destination was solely down to him. No one thinks that. You imply people think that.

I think Diego Simeone is a good manager from what I've seen. His teams are organised and hard to beat. I saw them win a title and I thought to myself, jeez Simeone did a good job to help guide them to the title. Now I don't know if he's a crap manager after all and I was wrong thinking that. 😉

We'll need (MA) Managers Anonymous soon. A safe house / sanctuary or confessional area where we can praise a manager for a job we perceive to be well done without experiencing the wrath of Roscobot.

 

[Oliver Twist]

I am also of the opinion that most managers don't really make much of a difference, but I do believe that better ones can make some difference, which is why Chelsea were exactly right to sack Ranieri for Mourinho, and we were right to sack Rodgers for Klopp.

But the vast majority of managers are mediocre. A few are genuinely shit, a few are very good. A very rare few are exceptional.

Money is all that really matters though. If you have more money than anyone else, even an old mediocrity like Pellegrini can win a title.

Indeedio.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah but it wouldn't be that mental to praise the captain if he did a good job, or if he organised his deck efficiently and delegated his staff en route to reaching their destination. He deserves some praise.

I don't think anyone would be claiming he was the best captain ever or reaching the destination was solely down to him. No one thinks that. You imply people think that.

I think Diego Simeone is a good manager from what I've seen. His teams are organised and hard to beat. I saw them win a title and I thought to myself, jeez Simeone did a good job to help guide them to the title. Now I don't know if he's a crap manager after all and I was wrong thinking that. 😉

We'll need (MA) Managers Anonymous soon. A safe house / sanctuary or confessional area where we can praise a manager for a job we perceive to be well done without they wrath of Roscobot.

Simeone is a good manager. But the fact is really good managers like him are very rare.

 

[tony]

What shit?
To go back to the nautical , its like crediting a captain for being on board a ship when the tide took it to its destination. In football nobody considers the tide , occasionally they consider the boat .

Bit of a weird analogy from you there so here's another, a manager turning Lovren into a decent defender is the equivalent of turning water into wine

 

[ILD]

Simeone is a good manager. But the fact is really good managers like him are very rare.

I also agree with that.

 

[manwithnoname]

Bit of a weird analogy from you there so here's another, a manager turning Lovren into a decent defender is the equivalent of turning water into wine

That would actually be water turned into wine, back into water then wine again.

Because he played well for a season at Southampton, after he was awful in France. It was that season that persuaded Rodgers to spend £20m on him.
It was the same season that also persuaded Rodgers that Adam Lallana was actually worth spending £25m on.

 

[Oliver Twist]

To go back to the nautical , its like crediting a captain for being on board a ship when the tide took it to its destination. In football nobody considers the tide , occasionally they consider the boat .

What is the tide in this analogy?

 

[cloggypop]

What is the tide in this analogy?

Wages.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Rodgers took us to within a whisker of the title largely off the back of having a striker who wasn't all that good.

 

[Hansern]

We should have a poll or something to see how many people actually agree with his (Ross) views.

As for the example, what makes Grant a shite manager?
He's got some good results and achievements for several teams, including the Israeli national team.

 

[manwithnoname]

We should have a poll or something to see how many people actually agree with his (Ross) views.

As for the example, what makes Grant a shite manager?
He's got some good results and achievements for several teams, including the Israeli national team.

I'll tell you what makes Grant a shite manager: reality

 

[Tinto]

We should have a poll or something to see how many people actually agree with his (Ross) views.

As for the example, what makes Grant a shite manager?
He's got some good results and achievements for several teams, including the Israeli national team.

Is Ross's views really that strange? I know he exaggerates to make a point but surely most people would agree that finances is the biggest factor on how a club performs.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think anyone who can see past the headline "Managers don't make a difference" will, or should agree with the point.

 

[Woland]

Managers don't have any impact on the team at all. The big deciding factors in football matches are jinxy predictions on message boards and whether oncey gets his cock out, stuff like that.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Wages.

Really? Is Rosco saying no-one in football considers wages?

 

[manwithnoname]

2004-5: Alan Pardew under pressure from West Ham fans who worry they aren't showing promotion form. Eventually they get promoted.

2005-2006: Alan Pardew finishes in ninth place and reaches the FA cup final. He is described as the best young manager in the country.

Dec 2006: Alan Pardew is sacked after the worst set of results at West Ham for 7 decades

2006-7: Alan Pardew joins Charlton as manager. Charlton are relegated

2007-8: Alan Pardew fails to get Charlton promoted and finishes 11th

2008-9: Alan Pardew is sacked by Charlton

2009/10: Alan Pardew joins Southampton and is sacked a year later

2010-11: Alan Pardew is given a 5 year contract by Newcastle. They finish 11th

2011-12 Alan Pardew and Newcastle have the best start to a season for nearly 20 years. Alan Pardew wins Premiership manager of the year and LMA manager of the year after Newcastle qualify for Europe. He signs an 8 year extension

2013-2014 Alan Pardew wins December manager of the month award. Newcastle lose 15 out of their next 21 games.

2014-2015 Alan Pardew leaves Newcastle, utterly despised by the fans. He joins Crystal Palace.

After less than a full season in charge, he is now once again the best (not so) English young manager, linked with the England job and wants a big club:

'It is an ambition of mine.I won't ever let it rest until I'm done, to get to one of the big clubs, because I want a bigger percentage chance of winning."

Alan Pardew's % wins at Newcastle was 38%. It was 31% at Charlton. 41% at West Ham.

It is over 50% so far at Palace. But it won't stay that way. Because they'll stop winning and he won't be able to change it. Like at every single other club he has managed.

 

[cloggypop]

Really? Is Rosco saying no-one in football considers wages?

None of us are clever enough to see it.

 

[Hyena]

Is Ross's views really that strange? I know he exaggerates to make a point but surely most people would agree that finances is the biggest factor on how a club performs.

That's partly because the clubs with the most money hire the best managers.

I don't know how anyone can defend Rosco's position. There is no evidence or logic underpinning it.

 

[Hansern]

Is Ross's views really that strange? I know he exaggerates to make a point but surely most people would agree that finances is the biggest factor on how a club performs.

Yeah, I agree. But according to him he could manage Barcelona. So in other words we could change around every manager in the league and the table would look exactly the same. It wouldnt. Cause they make a difference. But obviously that is just part of the full story. Finances, players, infrastructure, coaching staff etc etc

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah, I agree. But according to him he could manage Barcelona. So in other words we could change around every manager in the league and the table would look exactly the same. It wouldnt. Cause they make a difference. But obviously that is just part of the full story. Finances, players, infrastructure, coaching staff etc etc

Yeah, the manager is a factor. Usually a rather small one, given that most managers are just "OK". And no manager is good enough or influential enough to overcome negatives in ALL of the other factors.

Klopp is a better manager than Rodgers, yeah. We all know that. But if managers were THAT important and influential, then one could start to make a case for Claudio Ranieri being a better manager than Klopp. He's top of the league! With Leicester.

 

[Hansern]

I'll tell you what makes Grant a shite manager: reality

Which means fuck all. What makes him shite? His results? Cause they arent shite. Relegation with West Ham? Loads of good managers have gotten a club relegated.

For the record I dont rate Grant but he's not shite. He's average.

Tony Adams though. He's a shite manager. And if you put him in charge of any team in the Premier League, I very much doubt you'll get the same results as you would with the current managers employed.

 

[manwithnoname]

Which means fuck all. What makes him shite? His results? Cause they arent shite. Relegation with West Ham? Loads of good managers have gotten a club relegated.

For the record I dont rate Grant but he's not shite. He's average.

He's got two clubs relegated. In successive seasons. That takes a special type of shit manager.