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So are we better without him.........

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[quote author=redhorizon link=topic=45274.msg1330011#msg1330011 date=1304981654]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45274.msg1330006#msg1330006 date=1304981516]
It's nice to see the lads take the onus upon themselves to create chances and hurt teams. We used to rely on Gerrard to this but the players seem to have stepped up to the plate in his absence.

I can't wait to see him link up Suarez, Kuyt, Carroll and Neymar.
[/quote]

he is going to chelsea, FACT!
[/quote]

I'm just horsing around.
 
Just a random thing I found...

"@uknowitstricky: If Liverpool sell gerrard I think that money could give them a title challenge next year"


HOW FUCKIN SHIT IS THAT ?

Think.On.
 
Fuck me how can someone argue that we're better without Gerrard?
All I've been saying during the time he's been out is next season we'll be even stronger. He's like a new signing.

His position?

Center midfield with Lucas. Meireles behind the striker.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45274.msg1329979#msg1329979 date=1304980306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45274.msg1329948#msg1329948 date=1304979442]
No.
If you replace Meireles, Lucas or Spearing with Gerrard we are a better team.
[/quote]

Word.

Obviously we're a better team with Gerrard in it. It's because he's our best player.
/thread.
[/quote]

Erm, not sure if it's really that black and white to be honest.

Dreamy might actually be onto something.

Take that example above, replace any of those players with Gerrard and automatically you bring in a better player. That's fact fo'sho. Doesn't automatically make you a better team though, it just brings a better player into the team.

I think the difference to how we play sans Stevie is night and day to how we play with him. When he's in the side, for whatever reason, there's a tendency from most fo the team (in particular the lesser lights) to shirk responsibility and leadership. I can certainly see why that's the case, no one's doubting Gerrard's ability, but does it harm how we play? From time to time, yes I think it does.

There's no way Spearing for example would have come on the way he has in the last month had Gerrard been in there beside him. He's actually take the game on, and pressing forward with movement and passing. Has Gerrard been in there I'm not sure he'd have been so inlcined to do so. It's not that they're afraid of Gerrard, more that they're afraid of trying to do what he would most likely do better.

We're playing great football across the pitch right now. Everyone's taking ownership, everyone's playing with freedom, and everyone's enjoying it. Now before anyone cracks in and accuses me of Gerrard stealing the fucking buzz don't; there's a role for Gerrard in that team, and he'll come back into it no doubt when fit, but he has to adapt to the way we're playing now too. We're not the two-man team of 12/18 months ago, as evidenced by the football we're playing, and the goals and threat coming from all over the park that we've seen in the last few months. Increasingly Gerrard's role could and should eveoplve into what Giggs' has for United - still vital, and probably still their most important player, but it's a team role, not an individual one.

I've got faith in Kenny seeing this happens.

Stating "Gerrard's our best player, therefore we're a better team" is naive and uneducated to be honest.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1329946#msg1329946 date=1304979376]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1329940#msg1329940 date=1304979263]
he's better than jay, but jay is perfect for that role whereas gerrard may not be.....

erm



[/quote]

Obviously 99% of fans will say no, however our balance is looking so good right now and we are not relying on getting the ball to one man and looking for a 50 yard killer ball.

For the first time in 6 years I can see a Liverpool team without Gerrard and not feel the need to go into the fetile position
[/quote]

Fucking hell.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45274.msg1330093#msg1330093 date=1304992224]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45274.msg1329979#msg1329979 date=1304980306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45274.msg1329948#msg1329948 date=1304979442]
No.
If you replace Meireles, Lucas or Spearing with Gerrard we are a better team.
[/quote]

Word.

Obviously we're a better team with Gerrard in it. It's because he's our best player.
/thread.
[/quote]

Erm, not sure if it's really that black and white to be honest.

Dreamy might actually be onto something.

Take that example above, replace any of those players with Gerrard and automatically you bring in a better player. That's fact fo'sho. Doesn't automatically make you a better team though, it just brings a better player into the team.

I think the difference to how we play sans Stevie is night and day to how we play with him. When he's in the side, for whatever reason, there's a tendency from most fo the team (in particular the lesser lights) to shirk responsibility and leadership. I can certainly see why that's the case, no one's doubting Gerrard's ability, but does it harm how we play? From time to time, yes I think it does.

There's no way Spearing for example would have come on the way he has in the last month had Gerrard been in there beside him. He's actually take the game on, and pressing forward with movement and passing. Has Gerrard been in there I'm not sure he'd have been so inlcined to do so. It's not that they're afraid of Gerrard, more that they're afraid of trying to do what he would most likely do better.

We're playing great football across the pitch right now. Everyone's taking ownership, everyone's playing with freedom, and everyone's enjoying it. Now before anyone cracks in and accuses me of Gerrard stealing the fucking buzz don't; there's a role for Gerrard in that team, and he'll come back into it no doubt when fit, but he has to adapt to the way we're playing now too. We're not the two-man team of 12/18 months ago, as evidenced by the football we're playing, and the goals and threat coming from all over the park that we've seen in the last few months. Increasingly Gerrard's role could and should eveoplve into what Giggs' has for United - still vital, and probably still their most important player, but it's a team role, not an individual one.

I've got faith in Kenny seeing this happens.

Stating "Gerrard's our best player, therefore we're a better team" is naive and uneducated to be honest.
[/quote]

Great post Ryan.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=45274.msg1329961#msg1329961 date=1304979807]
It's this simple; if you think Liverpool FC is better off without Fernando Torres, you're a an absolute fucking whopper.
[/quote]

A few months ago people would have said the above
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45274.msg1330093#msg1330093 date=1304992224]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45274.msg1329979#msg1329979 date=1304980306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45274.msg1329948#msg1329948 date=1304979442]
No.
If you replace Meireles, Lucas or Spearing with Gerrard we are a better team.
[/quote]

Word.

Obviously we're a better team with Gerrard in it. It's because he's our best player.
/thread.
[/quote]

Erm, not sure if it's really that black and white to be honest.

Dreamy might actually be onto something.

Take that example above, replace any of those players with Gerrard and automatically you bring in a better player. That's fact fo'sho. Doesn't automatically make you a better team though, it just brings a better player into the team.

I think the difference to how we play sans Stevie is night and day to how we play with him. When he's in the side, for whatever reason, there's a tendency from most fo the team (in particular the lesser lights) to shirk responsibility and leadership. I can certainly see why that's the case, no one's doubting Gerrard's ability, but does it harm how we play? From time to time, yes I think it does.

There's no way Spearing for example would have come on the way he has in the last month had Gerrard been in there beside him. He's actually take the game on, and pressing forward with movement and passing. Has Gerrard been in there I'm not sure he'd have been so inlcined to do so. It's not that they're afraid of Gerrard, more that they're afraid of trying to do what he would most likely do better.

We're playing great football across the pitch right now. Everyone's taking ownership, everyone's playing with freedom, and everyone's enjoying it. Now before anyone cracks in and accuses me of Gerrard stealing the fucking buzz don't; there's a role for Gerrard in that team, and he'll come back into it no doubt when fit, but he has to adapt to the way we're playing now too. We're not the two-man team of 12/18 months ago, as evidenced by the football we're playing, and the goals and threat coming from all over the park that we've seen in the last few months. Increasingly Gerrard's role could and should eveoplve into what Giggs' has for United - still vital, and probably still their most important player, but it's a team role, not an individual one.

I've got faith in Kenny seeing this happens.

Stating "Gerrard's our best player, therefore we're a better team" is naive and uneducated to be honest.
[/quote]

Ya pretty much what I was getting at. Gerrard obviously has a major role to play but we certainly look more threatening all over the pitch without him.
I've seen it in many sports I've played, when your star man is out the rest of the team treble their efforts to fill the void.
 
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=45274.msg1330100#msg1330100 date=1304993002]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1329946#msg1329946 date=1304979376]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1329940#msg1329940 date=1304979263]
he's better than jay, but jay is perfect for that role whereas gerrard may not be.....

erm



[/quote]

Obviously 99% of fans will say no, however our balance is looking so good right now and we are not relying on getting the ball to one man and looking for a 50 yard killer ball.

For the first time in 6 years I can see a Liverpool team without Gerrard and not feel the need to go into the fetile position
[/quote]

Fucking hell.
[/quote]

Jesus Christ, I'm not saying I don't want Gerrard I'm saying we are playing the kind of football that isn't reliant on one man dragging the rest of them around by the bootlaces.

Get A GRIP
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45274.msg1330124#msg1330124 date=1305008811]
[quote author=themn link=topic=45274.msg1329961#msg1329961 date=1304979807]
It's this simple; if you think Liverpool FC is better off without Fernando Torres, you're a an absolute fucking whopper.
[/quote]

A few months ago people would have said the above
[/quote]

Indeed
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1330130#msg1330130 date=1305009734]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45274.msg1330124#msg1330124 date=1305008811]
[quote author=themn link=topic=45274.msg1329961#msg1329961 date=1304979807]
It's this simple; if you think Liverpool FC is better off without Fernando Torres, you're a an absolute fucking whopper.
[/quote]

A few months ago people would have said the above
[/quote]

Indeed
[/quote]

So, should we sell Gerrard, to prove how much we don't need him now ?

And if Suarez were to be injured for a few games next year, after a blistering start, but we continued to murder teams and play great football, should we all jump up and down and exclaim, "hey, we don't need this cunt, either !" ?

There's an itsy wee difference between our captain,and, club legend, and that shithouse.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45274.msg1330093#msg1330093 date=1304992224]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45274.msg1329979#msg1329979 date=1304980306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45274.msg1329948#msg1329948 date=1304979442]
No.
If you replace Meireles, Lucas or Spearing with Gerrard we are a better team.
[/quote]

Word.

Obviously we're a better team with Gerrard in it. It's because he's our best player.
/thread.
[/quote]

Erm, not sure if it's really that black and white to be honest.

Dreamy might actually be onto something.

Take that example above, replace any of those players with Gerrard and automatically you bring in a better player. That's fact fo'sho. Doesn't automatically make you a better team though, it just brings a better player into the team.

I think the difference to how we play sans Stevie is night and day to how we play with him. When he's in the side, for whatever reason, there's a tendency from most fo the team (in particular the lesser lights) to shirk responsibility and leadership. I can certainly see why that's the case, no one's doubting Gerrard's ability, but does it harm how we play? From time to time, yes I think it does.

There's no way Spearing for example would have come on the way he has in the last month had Gerrard been in there beside him. He's actually take the game on, and pressing forward with movement and passing. Has Gerrard been in there I'm not sure he'd have been so inlcined to do so. It's not that they're afraid of Gerrard, more that they're afraid of trying to do what he would most likely do better.

We're playing great football across the pitch right now. Everyone's taking ownership, everyone's playing with freedom, and everyone's enjoying it. Now before anyone cracks in and accuses me of Gerrard stealing the fucking buzz don't; there's a role for Gerrard in that team, and he'll come back into it no doubt when fit, but he has to adapt to the way we're playing now too. We're not the two-man team of 12/18 months ago, as evidenced by the football we're playing, and the goals and threat coming from all over the park that we've seen in the last few months. Increasingly Gerrard's role could and should eveoplve into what Giggs' has for United - still vital, and probably still their most important player, but it's a team role, not an individual one.

I've got faith in Kenny seeing this happens.

Stating "Gerrard's our best player, therefore we're a better team" is naive and uneducated to be honest.
[/quote]

But is that due to the absence of Gerrard or the presence of Kenny?

I agree, it's great to see players waving their hands in the air, wanting the ball and trying to do creative and occasionally risky things with it.

Nobody could have accused Lucas last night of "just passing the ball sideways" and even lil Jay Spearing was showing some adventure and vision - but is that because they're stepping out of Stevie's shadow or because Kenny is instilling belief in them?
 
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45274.msg1329966#msg1329966 date=1304979972]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1329946#msg1329946 date=1304979376]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1329940#msg1329940 date=1304979263]
he's better than jay, but jay is perfect for that role whereas gerrard may not be.....

erm



[/quote]

Obviously 99% of fans will say no, however our balance is looking so good right now and we are not relying on getting the ball to one man and looking for a 50 yard killer ball.

For the first time in 6 years I can see a Liverpool team without Gerrard and not feel the need to go into the fetile position
[/quote]

*Fetal

Steven Gerrard is a world class footballer. He has been carrying knocks this season and still been immense in some games (see away to Chelsea). When he comes back fit after a proper pre season and no world cup/Euros behind him he will be one of our four most important players (Reina, Suarez, Gerrard and I'm hoping we sign someone fucking shit hot). The reason that we are currently playing better without him is that Kenny and Steve Clarke have had more time with the team.

I'm not taking away from how good Ming, Lucas and Spearing have been at times this season (because individually all of them have been great at times), but Steven Gerrard is a better player than any one of them, in any of the positions they are currently playing in.
[/quote]

FOETAL. You pair of fucking dopes.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1330129#msg1330129 date=1305009634]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=45274.msg1330100#msg1330100 date=1304993002]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1329946#msg1329946 date=1304979376]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1329940#msg1329940 date=1304979263]
he's better than jay, but jay is perfect for that role whereas gerrard may not be.....

erm



[/quote]

Obviously 99% of fans will say no, however our balance is looking so good right now and we are not relying on getting the ball to one man and looking for a 50 yard killer ball.

For the first time in 6 years I can see a Liverpool team without Gerrard and not feel the need to go into the fetile position
[/quote]

Fucking hell.
[/quote]

Jesus Christ, I'm not saying I don't want Gerrard I'm saying we are playing the kind of football that isn't reliant on one man dragging the rest of them around by the bootlaces.

Get A GRIP
[/quote]

Kenny Dalglish has basically said this Pat. We are now not a one/two man team
 
is it that unfathomable that we've found a way to play when the inevitable happens and gerrard gets injred again? I'm sure jay will be binned off and the layout of the team will change, but for once we've have many options tactically and i'm loving it.

Where would gerrard fit? Where would carroll fit?

I wouldn't drop any of our players at the minute the form they're in. Everyone looks so assured it's unreal. But they will have to be to bring better players in. OBviously gerrard will walk back in to the team, but what we gain in gerrard we'll lose in someone else. Same with Carroll. I can see us losing maxis predator like instincts in the box, whilst gaining strength and determination. Every player has pluses and minuses. Thankfully it's not our job to decide on the team
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1330153#msg1330153 date=1305014447]
is it that unfathomable that we've found a way to play when the inevitable happens and gerrard gets injred again? I'm sure jay will be binned off and the layout of the team will change, but for once we've have many options tactically and i'm loving it.

Where would gerrard fit? Where would carroll fit?

I wouldn't drop any of our players at the minute the form they're in. Everyone looks so assured it's unreal. But they will have to be to bring better players in. OBviously gerrard will walk back in to the team, but what we gain in gerrard we'll lose in someone else. Same with Carroll. I can see us losing maxis predator like instincts in the box, whilst gaining strength and determination. Every player has pluses and minuses. Thankfully it's not our job to decide on the team
[/quote]

This is the nub of the argument.

On current form it would be incredibly unfair to drop anyone from that starting XI, however; do we really think that all of them will come back into pre-season in the same vein/ Maxi will continue the same scoring form, etc? No.

So at that point Gerrard and Carroll (and others) will get their chance again, and its up to them to hit form and keep their place - and as Fabio says they will bring a new set of benefits into the team.

As an aside, Gerrard is undoubtedly still our best player. I think in some respects fans are listening to these rumours doing the rounds that he wont ever make it back, and being a bit defensive ("Ahh we dont need him anyway, blahh blaahh blaaahh&quot😉.

He'll walk (or hop) back into this side on one leg.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45274.msg1330148#msg1330148 date=1305013913]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45274.msg1329966#msg1329966 date=1304979972]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1329946#msg1329946 date=1304979376]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45274.msg1329940#msg1329940 date=1304979263]
he's better than jay, but jay is perfect for that role whereas gerrard may not be.....

erm



[/quote]

Obviously 99% of fans will say no, however our balance is looking so good right now and we are not relying on getting the ball to one man and looking for a 50 yard killer ball.

For the first time in 6 years I can see a Liverpool team without Gerrard and not feel the need to go into the fetile position
[/quote]

*Fetal

Steven Gerrard is a world class footballer. He has been carrying knocks this season and still been immense in some games (see away to Chelsea). When he comes back fit after a proper pre season and no world cup/Euros behind him he will be one of our four most important players (Reina, Suarez, Gerrard and I'm hoping we sign someone fucking shit hot). The reason that we are currently playing better without him is that Kenny and Steve Clarke have had more time with the team.

I'm not taking away from how good Ming, Lucas and Spearing have been at times this season (because individually all of them have been great at times), but Steven Gerrard is a better player than any one of them, in any of the positions they are currently playing in.
[/quote]

FOETAL. You pair of fucking dopes.
[/quote]

Mega LOL......

Thanks Sunny.

*Imagines Sunny holding him in the Feotal position.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1330176#msg1330176 date=1305016432]

Mega LOL......

Thanks Sunny.

*Imagines Sunny holding him in the Feotal position.
[/quote]

I give up.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45274.msg1330179#msg1330179 date=1305016566]
Fetal is a correct spelling as well.
[/quote]

In the US of A.

The spelling in the Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary, Third Edition (1996), page 537, is 'foetus' with 'foetuses' as the plural; 'fetus' (page 514) is given as the 'US variant of foetus.'
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45274.msg1330182#msg1330182 date=1305016787]
Heh yeah, but we're an international community are we not?
[/quote]

Ha yes I suppose. But feotal ? Fetile ? LOLZ ....
 
Anyways, is there really any question of Gerrard being a genuine team player?

He's always been one for England (it's just that the team has been shit) and he has been for us, so I don't think there is any kind of adaptation to be fearful of.

If other players shrink into their shells when Gerrard plays, then they should be the ones to adapt not the other way round really. As it happens, I think Kenny is the perfect guy to ensure that happens as the confidence he inspires is there for all to see.

On another aside, did anyone see traces of Gerrard/Torres in the link up of Shelvey/Suarez in the last 15mins?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45274.msg1330185#msg1330185 date=1305017120]
On another aside, did anyone see traces of Gerrard/Torres in the link up of Shelvey/Suarez in the last 15mins?
[/quote]

Yep definitely. Wonderful pass and finish. Especially after Shelvey was getting some stick on here. Suarez is nippy - doesn't quite have the blistering pace that Torres has (had?) but is blessed with an awesome amount of technical ability and trickery. He's such an unpredictable player he must be a nightmare to defend against
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45274.msg1330180#msg1330180 date=1305016639]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45274.msg1330176#msg1330176 date=1305016432]

Mega LOL......

Thanks Sunny.

*Imagines Sunny holding him in the Feotal position.
[/quote]

I give up.
[/quote]

Indeed.
 
Not just the through ball and the finish, but the little passages of intricate interplay in the box and what not. They seemed to be on the same wavelength AND able to execute. It reminded me of Gerrard / Torres in that respect.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45274.msg1330192#msg1330192 date=1305017462]
Not just the through ball and the finish, but the little passages of intricate interplay in the box and what not. They seemed to be on the same wavelength AND able to execute. It reminded me of Gerrard / Torres in that respect.
[/quote]

I think Kuyt and Maxi are developing an understanding with Luis now as well. When Suarez first arrived you could see that he was trying things but other players just weren't on the same wavelength. It's good to see they're tuning in now. We're playing well as a team though which is lovely to see. Some of the fast, neat and accurate one touch football throughout the park was wonderful.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45274.msg1330192#msg1330192 date=1305017462]
Not just the through ball and the finish, but the little passages of intricate interplay in the box and what not. They seemed to be on the same wavelength AND able to execute. It reminded me of Gerrard / Torres in that respect.
[/quote]

i agree, and considering they've played together like....6 or so times in brief spells, is phenomenal

Either shelvey is ridiculously clever, suarez is ridiculously sharp, or a beutiful combination between the two. I honestly am really excited about shelvey
 
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