Salah’s future

[StevieM]

I think it's mental to look at a player and say, well, they're scoring x amount of goals, there's no other way to get those goals and they are uniquely capable of providing them.

We have been suffering from not replacing old Salah WITH new Salah playing. He goes for free in a year and we are fine with it then, but we aren't fine with it now for money?

The tipping point wasn't 150 million then, it's nowhere near that now. Id take 40 million for him, get rid of his wages and draw a line under the old era. It's happening anyway.

Equally, I think it’s mental to casually disregard the goals that Salah has consistently delivered.

I didn’t say there’s no other way of providing the goals - but we currently don’t have any forwards that are, for various reasons, capable of delivering 20+ league goals - so I’m not super keen on finding out how that all works out in the first season with a new manager getting to grips with the job.

The fact remains though - that he has scored a lot of goals and created another chunk for the team and there’s no telling how many of those would have remained had it been a different player in his role.

You might not have set the tipping point at £150m, plenty did and you won’t have to look far for someone living under the illusion we’re getting £150m for him this summer.

I can’t make this clearer - if he wants to go or someone makes an offer that’s acceptable, then we sell, no question and no issue.

You’d take £40m - fair enough. I wouldn’t. I’d probably take £70m upwards if I had to put a figure on it.

The reason I wouldn’t is because we have a new manager coming in and having Salah there for another year, given that Slot’s system is pretty much designed with goals coming from Salah’s position, will give him some time to establish his way of doing things.

The bigger problem is the number 9 - who Slot will expect to be able to hold up play, score goals and drop deep - and we don’t have that player on the books (although Danns might be one for a few years time).

The closest we have to what Slot probably is Gakpo - and I’m not sure he has the goals in him.

So, yes I’d keep Salah for another year, it’s a reasonably safe bet that he’ll score a pile of goals. I’d get the Number 9 we need and worry about Salah the following season.

It’s maybe a bit dull, boring and pragmatic, but it’s also less risky.

I wouldn’t be selling Jota, Nunez or Gakpo either - unless they specifically asked to leave or an amazing offer came in for any of them.

I don’t believe in changing huge amounts of players each season - it rarely works - I prefer to add 1 or 2 quality players in key areas and that, for me in the next window, is a CB and No 9 with a DM also probably necessary.

Then next summer we’ll be looking at a RW & LB.

I also don’t blame Salah’s lack of form solely for our recent struggles - I absolutely concede we need another goalscorer - again I’d rather not have to find two at the same time.

 

[Frogfish]

Can't really be arsed doing all this again in depth so just a precis. :

1. Sell. The decline is obvious and isn't compensated by his improved number of assists. Age. He will only become more disruptive as he spends more time on the bench - we don't need that for whomever is our new manager.

2. Now is the time for a Salah replacement. Let the new manager have a say and a young striker like Olise (22) would surely match Mo's figures this season (12 goals w/o pens in the PL). Olise has 7 goals and 4 assists in less than half Salah's minutes and for a vastly inferior team. Olise has had 2 bad hamstring injuries this season but zero last season (played in 37 of 38 matches or the season before with involvement in 30 matches).

3. Those saying sell all 5 or 4. I mean like seriously WTF. We are (were?) the only team in Europe to have 5 attackers in double figures for goals. We are not that far off track and certainly not anywhere near a wholesale clearout. We will finish 3rd in the PL and were well in the title race until the last couple of weeks - when most thought we'd struggle to make Top 4 - because of those attackers.
By comparison Arsenal have 4 (all comps) and 3 of those have many more minutes on the board than any of our attackers (ave. 3,700 to ca. 2,500). Their top scorer is Saka with 18 goals but 5 of those were penalties.

4. Nunez has improved - someone posted those stats recently. Clear improvement on last season (yes he's wildly inconsistent and going through a bad patch now). I'm hopeful Slot can do something with him. At least the way he tailors training to work on individual weaknesses bodes well.

5. On the fence re. Jota & Gakpo. No way I'd sell Diaz.

 

[tomasjj]

Sell. I said so last summer too. Let us hope arabia Are not yet bored of their plaything

 

[Tinto]

I was on the fence until yesterday.

If he can throw a hissy fit at Klopp, he’s not going to hold back on Slot. That is last thing Slot and Edwards need and it isn’t how a senior member of the squad should be behaving.

 

[binomial]

Obviously we should keep him.

He’s our best attacker by a country fucking mile even with his slow decline.

So obvious that over 80% of SCM faithfuls want him sold?

 

[Markeh]

Equally, I think it’s mental to casually disregard the goals that Salah has consistently delivered.

I didn’t say there’s no other way of providing the goals - but we currently don’t have any forwards that are, for various reasons, capable of delivering 20+ league goals - so I’m not super keen on finding out how that all works out in the first season with a new manager getting to grips with the job.

The fact remains though - that he has scored a lot of goals and created another chunk for the team and there’s no telling how many of those would have remained had it been a different player in his role.

You might not have set the tipping point at £150m, plenty did and you won’t have to look far for someone living under the illusion we’re getting £150m for him this summer.

I can’t make this clearer - if he wants to go or someone makes an offer that’s acceptable, then we sell, no question and no issue.

You’d take £40m - fair enough. I wouldn’t. I’d probably take £70m upwards if I had to put a figure on it.

The reason I wouldn’t is because we have a new manager coming in and having Salah there for another year, given that Slot’s system is pretty much designed with goals coming from Salah’s position, will give him some time to establish his way of doing things.

The bigger problem is the number 9 - who Slot will expect to be able to hold up play, score goals and drop deep - and we don’t have that player on the books (although Danns might be one for a few years time).

The closest we have to what Slot probably is Gakpo - and I’m not sure he has the goals in him.

So, yes I’d keep Salah for another year, it’s a reasonably safe bet that he’ll score a pile of goals. I’d get the Number 9 we need and worry about Salah the following season.

It’s maybe a bit dull, boring and pragmatic, but it’s also less risky.

I wouldn’t be selling Jota, Nunez or Gakpo either - unless they specifically asked to leave or an amazing offer came in for any of them.

I don’t believe in changing huge amounts of players each season - it rarely works - I prefer to add 1 or 2 quality players in key areas and that, for me in the next window, is a CB and No 9 with a DM also probably necessary.

Then next summer we’ll be looking at a RW & LB.

I also don’t blame Salah’s lack of form solely for our recent struggles - I absolutely concede we need another goalscorer - again I’d rather not have to find two at the same time.

honestly i don’t think we should be so fearful about losing goals, you’ve got to look at harry kane and ronaldo as examples of guys doing big numbers in front of goal who’s exits probably improved the overall output of the team.

i love Mo but i’ve never been under any illusions that his agent isnt his mouthpiece and him not being no.1 pick is going to be a huge problem. i’m not saying he’ll be doing piers morgan interviews but if his position doesn’t soften he’s probably best leaving.

i do have some confidence we could replace Mo with someone equivalent to diaz for example and yes he doesn’t hit the net as often as we like but he provides a threat which commits defenders and frees up others. the corner flag could mark Mo out of the game atm

 

[Frogfish]

So obvious that over 80% of SCM faithfuls want him sold?

I think you'd have been better off saying just TWO voted to keep him (inc. Dreamy).

 

[Fabio]

Tbh having a public fallout with klopp shows the mentality. A new manager will not get the same support klopp had initially, so having a player who could be a bit ego could be a bad time

 

[binomial]

I think you'd have been better off saying just TWO voted to keep him (inc. Dreamy).

Either works.

 

[StevieM]

I think you'd have been better off saying just TWO voted to keep him (inc. Dreamy).

I should probs vote and make it 3 - but I’d sell for the right offer.

 

[rurikbird]

Tbh having a public fallout with klopp shows the mentality. A new manager will not get the same support klopp had initially, so having a player who could be a bit ego could be a bad time

Let’s keep a sense of perspective here. Going on a Piers Morgan interview and bad-mouthing the manager would have been a public fallout. Saying a few angry words on the touchline in the heat of the moment, then refusing to speak about it in the press is not all that unusual - De Bruyne refused to shke Pep’s hand once I think, Sadio had his own fallout with Klopp etc. As long as this does not develop, it’s not such a big deal.

 

[737Max]

Nunez was asked what happened between Klopp and Salah on the touchline... he said "I missed it"...

 

[got red on me]

Let’s keep a sense of perspective here. Going on a Piers Morgan interview and bad-mouthing the manager would have been a public fallout. Saying a few angry words on the touchline in the heat of the moment, then refusing to speak about it in the press is not all that unusual - De Bruyne refused to shke Pep’s hand once I think, Sadio had his own fallout with Klopp etc. As long as this does not develop, it’s not such a big deal.

Yeah, but Klopp was asked about it and said it had been dealt with and there’s no problem.
Mo, subsequently, decides to let the world know in a few short words that he believes there *is a problem.
He should have said nothing, then we wouldn’t have scumbags like Piers Morgan having a little gloat about Liverpool seemingly falling apart.
Morgan’s an Arsenal fan, by the way.

 

[Fabio]

Let’s keep a sense of perspective here. Going on a Piers Morgan interview and bad-mouthing the manager would have been a public fallout. Saying a few angry words on the touchline in the heat of the moment, then refusing to speak about it in the press is not all that unusual - De Bruyne refused to shke Pep’s hand once I think, Sadio had his own fallout with Klopp etc. As long as this does not develop, it’s not such a big deal.

To counter that; De Bruyne then goes on to be a fucking hero the next game. Looking forward to seeing mos reaction next week.
Also, one side said it was done, the other said "if i speak there will be fire". Thats not professional, thats not acceptable.

We don't know why he's reacted that way, but if it's anything to do with playing time he cannot remotely complain or react that way. Half expecting an interview in the summer if he goes.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

For me Salah has to be the first one out from the forwards this summer.

1. His age
2. Highest earner by far
3. He's clearly on the decline, to the point where we are all questioning his position in the side.

Let's just hope that some mug will come in with a decent offer.

 

[Fabio]

I dislike talking about him this way. Calling him a useless cunt in game or in the post game haze is different to cold and thought out planning

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Anyone calling him a cunt should remind themselves of what he's done for us.

I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out, that for the good of the team it's time he was moved on

 

[Fabio]

Anyone calling him a cunt should remind themselves of what he's done for us.

I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out, that for the good of the team it's time he was moved on

Tbf when he fails to beat a man for the 5th time in 20 minutes, he is being a bit of a cunt

 

[Markeh]

Mo is Mo much like Suarez was Suarez. Super driven, super confident in his ability and it was great while he was playing well. It might be become a bit problematic now that he’s past his best but i don’t think anyone forgets how good he has been.

Suarez was a proper cunt, first he was our cunt and i remember people being surprised when he acted like a cunt playing against us. I would’ve been disappointed if he wasn’t.

Players personalities stay the same, Mo hasn’t changed, I still have a lot of time for him but it might be best all round if he goes to boss a shitty league for a couple of seasons now.

 

[Donavan Ried]

Here's why I'm on the fence. I'm assuming Mo's awful form post-AFCON is a temporary thing, not his new permanent level (if it is, we should definitely sell him – but I think it's likely that after a good pre-season he'll be back to his previous early season level). These things happen, even great players go through bad spells and you can understand how Mo doesn't have an experience dealing with an injury, because he's always been fit.

There are 2 arguments for keeping him: one is his importance to our attacking play. This graph illustrates it well:

I think this is pretty self-explanatory – none of our current attackers come close to Mo's output in goals and chance creation. Diaz is worth 75-100M in the current market – and he's not even in the same stratosphere, despite playing a lot more games. Who can we buy that will replace what we'd lose without Mo?

The 2nd argument has less to do with statistical output and more style of play. Let's say we sell Mo and replace him with the best young talent we can buy – maybe Summerville or Johan Bakayoko. Most young wingers on the market seem to be kind of a version of the same player, like a mass produced shirt at a supermarket: they are fast and powerful, know a few tricks that reliably get them to the byline and can typically shoot into the far corner with their strong foot – but there is kind of a ceiling to how far an attacker like that will take you. Look at Doku at City – I actually wanted us to sign him, but now I'm thinking players like that are kind of boring, even when they are effective. If we're buying someone with a view of not just supplementing our group of attackers, but replacing our best winger of last 20 years, they have to be more unique and versatile than that.

So that's where I stand at the moment. If Edwards can unearth a younger version of Sadio or Mo – great, sign them up, of course! But just replacing even an aging expensive great player with a young expensive probably non-great player... I might just prefer to stick with the aging Mo and live with his flaws. This is partly why I want to see Salah play in the last 3 matches – he might have a problem with Klopp, but any information to be gleaned about how to might relate to post-Klopp Liverpool will be key to deciding his future.

No Nunez top 3? He’s been coached by the best player improving man on the planet and not progressed at all.

Whilst i lay into Gakpo, I think he has the intelligence to bridge the gap between midfield and attack. I’d sell if we end up going to using Elliott, Mac, Gravy or even Carvalho in that gap.

Here's where I am with Nunez... He make a lot of decent runs into space but less than 7% are ever spotted, or played to him by his time mates. Now If and when that improves we will truely see just what type of striker we truely have

 

[moron]

All valid points @StevieM / @Frogfish ( not bad points for Top Top Reds) -

Yes sell Salah - and what I find astonishing about any Liverpool supporters scared of selling our most prolific front men is that our history if you deep it is blessed with world class front men coming in replacing the those that have moved on from us. I am actually very excited to see how a new manager might employ Nunez/Gakpo/Jotta/Diaz.

I don't want Salah to stay on and screw up all our good memories of him, he hardly beats a man, and is snapping at chances, and us being football fans at the most crucial point of the season will not feel sympathy at the fact that this is his first major injury season and that he was contributing through his GA figures. We needed someone up front to stand up and do the business and especially him - but from what we are seeing - he just can't do it anymore for a whole season. The sale price in my view should be a minimum of 70M+, but I am sure that Edwards will see what we all see and will sell.

 

[moron]

Here's where I am with Nunez... He make a lot of decent runs into space but less than 7% are ever spotted, or played to him by his time mates. Now If and when that improves we will truely see just what type of striker we truely have

This is so spot on - we all see it on the TV, I saw that last season in his early games - crying out for the ball to be threaded through to him, and the likes of Henderson and Co just kept passing it sideways.

 

[Frogfish]

I should probs vote and make it 3 - but I’d sell for the right offer.

You do know you'd be selling your vote to Dreamy don't you? And that he'd want you to finally let him out of the wardrobe?

 

[Red Mullet]

He’ll be sold

 

[localny]

His agent is shit stirring now of course

 

[737Max]

course he is

 

[moron]

His agent is shit stirring now of course

What is he saying ?

 

[Hansern]

I don’t recall noticing that pattern. Last season he scored or assisted in 9 out of the last 10 games of the season - his most productive run of the season. The season before it was 3 goals and 3 assists in the last 10 - maybe not great by his standards, but hardly awful. This season was the first time I remember him being utterly shit in the final stretch.

Thats the problem though when discussing Salah. Creating narratives to support arguments.

Salah is consitent and never injured. This season he’s been to AFCON and had a serious injury. I dont think he’s fit now in all honesty.

Its a tough one in regards to selling. But he’s not getting a new contract and there is no value after this summer in terms of a potential transfer fee.

As I’ve said earlier I’d like to know who we are replacing him with first.

 

[Tinto]

His agent is shit stirring now of course

If he's doing this then Mo must go.

I had hope Mo would act like a grown up and apologise

 

[got red on me]

His agent is shit stirring now of course

Is he?
I’ve just checked his Twitter and Instagram and there’s nothing.