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Sal-ittihad

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Yeah - I’m not actually sure Jorg is the main problem - his role is to be the main point of contact and get the deals’s moving, there’s probably someone else that’s closes the deal (like Hogan in the case of Caicedo) - or this is likely what we pay a fortune in agents fees forb- for them to act on our behalf and sort deals out.

Im more concerned about who’s identifying prospective signings, how our targets are determined and what our overall strategy is.

Not sure that’s specifically on Jorg.
 
rurikbird said:
Lovely player, but his goals have dried up lately. 13 games and counting without scoring in the league, only 2 assists in that time. Those are not Salah replacement numbers.
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The idea that we'll replace Salah with someone who can reproduce what he does is folly. The team dynamic will need to change and the goals will need to be redistributed. Which is absolutely fine.
 
StevieM said:
I think you’re underestimating his importance, his impact and his abilities.

Bowen is as likely to be one of those players that can do well at smaller clubs but not at big clubs.

Honestly… if we sell Salah now for £200m - I could probably name the posters that will add that £200m to the £115m we were going to spend on Caicedo and start raving about why we aren’t spending £315m+ in the next window.

I don’t think I can recall a point in time where so many people were desperate to sell one of our best players - it’s a really weird state of affairs.
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I think you're being a bit hysterical about all this. No one is desperate to sell Salah. We're talking about getting an astronomical sum of money for an aging/declining star. The sort of money that could fund another title charge and keep us competitive for five years. We are going to have to cope without Mo fairly soon anyway, so it's really about whether we suck it up it now or later.

You and others seem certain that Al Ettihad will return in January or next summer with an equal or bigger offer. I'm not. A lot can change in that time. Salah could have a shit season and fall out of favour. Or he could get hacked down and suffer a career-threatening injury. Or there could be more murmurings about players not getting paid what they've been promised which turns players off the idea. You just never know. At the very least, Mo will be another year closer to retirement, which won't help his value.

You also seem convinced that the team will crumble without Salah. That the season will be a write-off. Again, I don't think that follows. Yes, Salah has been a very productive player for us in terms of goals, and he's not going to be easy to replace. But we have a much more creative midfield than last season, both in terms of goals and assists. There's reason for optimism in terms compensating for his productivity. And we have a wealth of attacking options up front. This could be an opportunity for Nunez to spearhead the attack, for instance. He may even work on the right side - he certainly seems pretty handy at shooting across the keeper on recent evidence. There's all sorts of combinations we could try. You often find, when you remove a player who is so central to the way a team plays, that other players step up and begin to play with more freedom. That could happen here. It's not all doom and gloom, even without an immediate replacement.

This season is one of transition and adapting our style of play to fit the skillset we have. I'm not expecting miracles from it, so am happy to embrace the excitement and accept the uncertainty that goes along with reinventing the team. It would be the same if we were to sell Salah. We haven't got the money to compete with the big spenders and while a risk-averse approach may deliver more certainty in the short term, it won't give us a platform to compete in the long term. We have to take risks along the way.

Stop frothing and accept that this is a perfectly valid discussion to be having.
 
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Delinquent said:
I think you're being a bit hysterical about all this. No one is desperate to sell Salah. We're talking about getting an astronomical sum of money for an aging/declining star. The sort of money that could fund another title charge and keep us competitive for five years. We are going to have to cope without Mo fairly soon anyway, so it's really about whether we suck it up it now or later.

You and others seem certain that Al Ettihad will return in January or next summer with an equal or bigger offer. I'm not. A lot can change in that time. Salah could have a shit season and fall out of favour. Or he could get hacked down and suffer a career-threatening injury. Or there could be more murmurings about players not getting paid what they've been promised which turns players off the idea. You just never know. At the very least, Mo will be another year closer to retirement, which won't help his value.

You also seem convinced that the team will crumble without Salah. That the season will be a write-off. Again, I don't think that follows. Yes, Salah has been a very productive player for us in terms of goals, and he's not going to be easy to replace. But we have a much more creative midfield than last season, both in terms of goals and assists. There's reason for optimism in terms compensating for his productivity. And we have a wealth of attacking options up front. This could also be an opportunity for Nunez to spearhead the attack, for instance. He may even work on the right side - he certainly seems pretty handy at shooting across the keeper on recent evidence. There's all sorts of combinations we could try
You often find, when you remove a player who is so central to the way a team plays, that other players step up and begin to play with more freedom. That could happen here. It's not all doom and gloom, even without an immediate replacement.

This season is one of transition and adapting our style of play to fit the skillset we have. I'm not expecting miracles from it, so am happy to embrace the excitement and accept the uncertainty that goes along with reinventing the team. It would be the same if we were to sell Salah. We haven't got the money to compete with the big spenders and while a risk-averse approach may deliver more certainty in the short term, it won't give us a platform to compete in the long term. We have to take risks along the way.

Stop frothing and accept that this is a perfectly valid discussion to be having.
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Salah is more than capable of playing at the highest level for 4 more years and becoming our second highest ever goal scorer.
 
I think everyone agrees that he's not the player he was, so it's reasonable to assume that we'll see further decline over the next couple of seasons.

He's a club legend, but either way his time with us is coming to an end. As others have said, any number of things could happen that means this type of offer doesn't materialize again, so we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
 
The hysteria is hilarious to me. I'd imagine if Salah pretended to have a sore back for a bit, people would take whatever we could get for him, a la coutinho.

People either want a competitive Liverpool long term, or they want mo Salah to move up a player or 2 in the scoring charts.
 
Delinquent said:
I think you're being a bit hysterical about all this. No one is desperate to sell Salah. We're talking about getting an astronomical sum of money for an aging/declining star. The sort of money that could fund another title charge and keep us competitive for five years. We are going to have to cope without Mo fairly soon anyway, so it's really about whether we suck it up it now or later.

You and others seem certain that Al Ettihad will return in January or next summer with an equal or bigger offer. I'm not. A lot can change in that time. Salah could have a shit season and fall out of favour. Or he could get hacked down and suffer a career-threatening injury. Or there could be more murmurings about players not getting paid what they've been promised which turns players off the idea. You just never know. At the very least, Mo will be another year closer to retirement, which won't help his value.

You also seem convinced that the team will crumble without Salah. That the season will be a write-off. Again, I don't think that follows. Yes, Salah has been a very productive player for us in terms of goals, and he's not going to be easy to replace. But we have a much more creative midfield than last season, both in terms of goals and assists. There's reason for optimism in terms compensating for his productivity. And we have a wealth of attacking options up front. This could be an opportunity for Nunez to spearhead the attack, for instance. He may even work on the right side - he certainly seems pretty handy at shooting across the keeper on recent evidence. There's all sorts of combinations we could try. You often find, when you remove a player who is so central to the way a team plays, that other players step up and begin to play with more freedom. That could happen here. It's not all doom and gloom, even without an immediate replacement.

This season is one of transition and adapting our style of play to fit the skillset we have. I'm not expecting miracles from it, so am happy to embrace the excitement and accept the uncertainty that goes along with reinventing the team. It would be the same if we were to sell Salah. We haven't got the money to compete with the big spenders and while a risk-averse approach may deliver more certainty in the short term, it won't give us a platform to compete in the long term. We have to take risks along the way.

Stop frothing and accept that this is a perfectly valid discussion to be having.
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Look at Spurs, doing well so far without Kane.
 
Fabio said:
The hysteria is hilarious to me. I'd imagine if Salah pretended to have a sore back for a bit, people would take whatever we could get for him, a la coutinho.

People either want a competitive Liverpool long term, or they want mo Salah to move up a player or 2 in the scoring charts.
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I've been resigned to this is Salahs last season for a long time.

Let's just sit back and enjoy it.
 
If it was a month ago it wouldn't even have been a debate. Definitely get both sides on this one.

There's no guarantee he'll stay fit or that we'll get the same offer. But he's the best we have right now.

As a fan I don't want him to leave. If I was a trained actuary and hedge fund propellerhead sat in Boston I'd be sorting out the best terms.
 
Delinquent said:
The idea that we'll replace Salah with someone who can reproduce what he does is folly. The team dynamic will need to change and the goals will need to be redistributed. Which is absolutely fine.
Click to expand...

It’s fine in theory - but it requires either buying loads more players or relying on current players to significantly up their goal output or we’re restructuring how our forward line plays.

He’ll have to be replaced eventually, of course,
Delinquent said:
I think you're being a bit hysterical about all this. No one is desperate to sell Salah. We're talking about getting an astronomical sum of money for an aging/declining star. The sort of money that could fund another title charge and keep us competitive for five years. We are going to have to cope without Mo fairly soon anyway, so it's really about whether we suck it up it now or later.

You and others seem certain that Al Ettihad will return in January or next summer with an equal or bigger offer. I'm not. A lot can change in that time. Salah could have a shit season and fall out of favour. Or he could get hacked down and suffer a career-threatening injury. Or there could be more murmurings about players not getting paid what they've been promised which turns players off the idea. You just never know. At the very least, Mo will be another year closer to retirement, which won't help his value.

You also seem convinced that the team will crumble without Salah. That the season will be a write-off. Again, I don't think that follows. Yes, Salah has been a very productive player for us in terms of goals, and he's not going to be easy to replace. But we have a much more creative midfield than last season, both in terms of goals and assists. There's reason for optimism in terms compensating for his productivity. And we have a wealth of attacking options up front. This could be an opportunity for Nunez to spearhead the attack, for instance. He may even work on the right side - he certainly seems pretty handy at shooting across the keeper on recent evidence. There's all sorts of combinations we could try. You often find, when you remove a player who is so central to the way a team plays, that other players step up and begin to play with more freedom. That could happen here. It's not all doom and gloom, even without an immediate replacement.

This season is one of transition and adapting our style of play to fit the skillset we have. I'm not expecting miracles from it, so am happy to embrace the excitement and accept the uncertainty that goes along with reinventing the team. It would be the same if we were to sell Salah. We haven't got the money to compete with the big spenders and while a risk-averse approach may deliver more certainty in the short term, it won't give us a platform to compete in the long term. We have to take risks along the way.

Stop frothing and accept that this is a perfectly valid discussion to be having.
Click to expand...

I’m not frothing about it at all - and if we want to sell him, so be it - but if you think it’s a good idea to sell him now, after the window’s shut then I think that’s a little bit bonkers.

Why wouldn’t the Saudi’s come in for him again - if he means so much to them.

I haven’t said the team will crumble, but there’s a fairly good chance it’ll derail the season and possibly knock us out of Champions League qualification for another year - which likely will have a detrimental effect to further player recruitment.

I don’t think it’s risk worth taking and I don’t think it will deliver the benefits lots of people think it will.

I also don’t think it’s a risk we need to take.
 
StevieM said:
It’s fine in theory - but it requires either buying loads more players or relying on current players to significantly up their goal output or we’re restructuring how our forward line plays.

He’ll have to be replaced eventually, of course,


I’m not frothing about it at all - and if we want to sell him, so be it - but if you think it’s a good idea to sell him now, after the window’s shut then I think that’s a little bit bonkers.

Why wouldn’t the Saudi’s come in for him again - if he means so much to them.

I haven’t said the team will crumble, but there’s a fairly good chance it’ll derail the season and possibly knock us out of Champions League qualification for another year - which likely will have a detrimental effect to further player recruitment.

I don’t think it’s risk worth taking and I don’t think it will deliver the benefits lots of people think it will.

I also don’t think it’s a risk we need to take.
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Champions League qualification is not a given with Salah either.

Your position is based firmly on your certainty that the Saudis will return with the same or more money further down the line. If that were guaranteed, I'd be inclined to agree with you. It would be madness to sell your best player when you could guarantee a gargantuan sum for him in six months or a year, with time to plan for his succession. But it's not guaranteed, for all sorts of reasons, and that's the crux of it really.
 
Fabio said:
The hysteria is hilarious to me. I'd imagine if Salah pretended to have a sore back for a bit, people would take whatever we could get for him, a la coutinho.

People either want a competitive Liverpool long term, or they want mo Salah to move up a player or 2 in the scoring charts.
Click to expand...

I want a competitive Liverpool team this season - and we will be with Salah.

Less so without him.

I don’t see how that’s an issue.
 
Delinquent said:
Champions League qualification is not a given with Salah either.

Your position is based firmly on your certainty that the Saudis will return with the same or more money further down the line. If that were guaranteed, I'd be inclined to agree with you. It would be madness to sell your best player when you could guarantee a gargantuan sum for him in six months or a year, with time to plan for his succession. But it's not guaranteed, for all sorts of reasons, and that's the crux of it really.
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I can’t see Saudi stopping now they’ve started - and as has been discussed before, Salah is not just any player, he’s essential to them.

This isn’t a fad for them - they’re making a play to somehow establish the Saudi ProbLeague as one of the top Leagues in the world and there’s a long term aim of hosting the World Cup - we know this - it’s documented.

I’m pretty sure they’ll be back in January and next summer - might be a bigger offer, might not.

You’re absolutely right - nothing is a given, CL qualification is not certain with him - but there’s a better chance of it. He’s fit, rarely gets injured and despite talk of him not being the player he was - his output has not diminished.

If we’d planned for this, signed a replacement of some sort - even if it had been Bakayoko - then I’d probably agree with cashing in on him - but we haven’t.

Like I said - I’d happily keep him till his contract expires if it means we get the same output from him as he’s consistently delivered o et his time at Anfield.

Having money to spend on replacements doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll make good choices - I’m not confident we have the people in place to make the most of the £200m we likely have available.

Again - if you look at it from a purely commercial sense - he actually is worth more to us in short sales, exposure, whatever - than most players we’re likely to bring in.

There’s all sorts of layers to this - if the fee mitigates against them all - then yep sell and accept the consequences.

I just feel that the negative consequences of not selling outweigh the negative consequences of selling right now with no chance of replacing him.
 
Delinquent said:
Yes, and? I'm not interested in Salah's personal records. I'm interested in the ongoing success of the team under owners who are reluctant to spend anything other than earnings.
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You said we will have to make do without him soon. Four years isn’t soon and out may not care for personal records but in age when loyalty is short, watching a player climb as high as second on the all time scoring list for the most successful club in English history means something to many. It’s not his personal record, it’s Liverpool’s record.
 
Dreambeliever said:
You said we will have to make do without him soon. Four years isn’t soon and out may not care for personal records but in age when loyalty is short, watching a player climb as high as second on the all time scoring list for the most successful club in English history means something to many. It’s not his personal record, it’s Liverpool’s record.
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That's a bit of a weird stance. His records are his problem.

I dunno if it's possible but if they could sort out a sale with a loan back till January then I'd take a lower price as it mitigates every risk.
 
Woland said:
That's a bit of a weird stance. His records are his problem.

I dunno if it's possible but if they could sort out a sale with a loan back till January then I'd take a lower price as it mitigates every risk.
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I mean I’d like as a fan to see a player go just behind Rush. Doubt we’ll ever see anyone else go close. If he’s off in Jan I don’t see his performances being where we would them to be. He’d have fuck all to play for.
 
And all this talk about them not coming back with an insane offer in the summer. They were offering Mbappe 700m plus for 1 year!!
Money is no object.
 
Woland said:
That's a bit of a weird stance. His records are his problem.

I dunno if it's possible but if they could sort out a sale with a loan back till January then I'd take a lower price as it mitigates every risk.
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Are you talking about Salah?

We can’t loan someone after the transfer window shuts unless it’s an emergency.

A sale involves the transfer of the player registration (@Beamrider can correct me if I’m wrong) - so if we sell, there’s no possibility of a loan back.

Sell him now - he’s gone and there’s no replacement and no loan.
 
StevieM said:
Are you talking about Salah?

We can’t loan someone after the transfer window shuts unless it’s an emergency.

A sale involves the transfer of the player registration (@Beamrider can correct me if I’m wrong) - so if we sell, there’s no possibility of a loan back.

Sell him now - he’s gone and there’s no replacement and no loan.
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That's correct. A sale and loan back wouldn't work as we wouldn't be able to register him coming back in as the European window is closed. But you could achieve the same thing by agreeing an advance deal for January, you could include sell / buy options exercisable once the window re-opens if needed (NB this assumes there is a January window for the Saudi league, which I imagine there would be).
 
Dreambeliever said:
You said we will have to make do without him soon. Four years isn’t soon and out may not care for personal records but in age when loyalty is short, watching a player climb as high as second on the all time scoring list for the most successful club in English history means something to many. It’s not his personal record, it’s Liverpool’s record.
Click to expand...
There's no way Salah is finishing his career with us. He's not the kind of player who will accept a bit-part role in the team, even in his twilight years. The minute he isn't first choice, he'll be out the door. I give it two years, max.
 
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