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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014125#msg1014125 date=1260816311]
If you're out of form you're a defensive player. [/quote]

Here's the trend I see - and this isn't pertaining to you.

All the Dirk'a'holics we have on this site get all ancy and angry when people say he's been off for 2-3 months (bar two goals, one an open net and one against Billy Gallas). Though we all know he's a lovely, team first, hard working option - he's struggled just like he did last year.

**Waits for "Oh but Yossi is Shit and Dirk is so consistent and blah blah blah blah**
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=37882.msg1013959#msg1013959 date=1260802537]
Team selection was poor
Substitutions were atrocious
He's clueless

Aquilani for Mascher ?!? Our shite brazilian remains on the pitch!
Degen for Johnson WTF?!? we were 2-1 down, did he really expect my swiss fellow would get the equalizer?
Typical like for like substitutions that bring nothing.
[/quote]

Did you actually watch the match or know who was on the bench ? We had one attacker (N'Gog - who came on), one midfielder (Aquilani - who also came on) and 5 defenders (that was an error, Pacheco should have been amongst them). However, Masher was limping when he was subbed - no complaint there though it was a pity. Johnson's confidence was shot so no complaint when Degen replaced him either.

You are way way way off the mark.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37882.msg1014011#msg1014011 date=1260805374]

The Mascher thing I have given him the benefit of the doubt on as he had taken a couple of knocks

regards
[/quote]

And was on a booking. I wasn't surprised to see him come off.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014223#msg1014223 date=1260828500]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37882.msg1014011#msg1014011 date=1260805374]

The Mascher thing I have given him the benefit of the doubt on as he had taken a couple of knocks

regards
[/quote]

And was on a booking. I wasn't surprised to see him come off.
[/quote]
I agree...................
[size=7pt]*Looks for the rest of that bunting*[/size]


regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37882.msg1014273#msg1014273 date=1260833557]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014223#msg1014223 date=1260828500]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37882.msg1014011#msg1014011 date=1260805374]

The Mascher thing I have given him the benefit of the doubt on as he had taken a couple of knocks

regards
[/quote]

And was on a booking. I wasn't surprised to see him come off.
[/quote]
I agree...................
[size=7pt]*Looks for the rest of that bunting*[/size]


regards
[/quote]

Blame all this cordial behaviour on festive spirit Vlad.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37882.msg1014173#msg1014173 date=1260822013]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014125#msg1014125 date=1260816311]
If you're out of form you're a defensive player. [/quote]

Here's the trend I see - and this isn't pertaining to you.

All the Dirk'a'holics we have on this site get all ancy and angry when people say he's been off for 2-3 months (bar two goals, one an open net and one against Billy Gallas). Though we all know he's a lovely, team first, hard working option - he's struggled just like he did last year.

**Waits for "Oh but Yossi is Shit and Dirk is so consistent and blah blah blah blah**
[/quote]

Here's how I see it. He steps up with goals in big games. Granted, he's not got the best touch, and like a few of those players in between the 'good' bracket and the 'Gerrard/Torres' bracket, he relies sometimes on the team functioning well so we see the best of him, that's why you have your best players, your 'spine', because they give some stability and quality that the rest of the side can play off.

I don't know where the Yossi thing came from because it's been a long long time since he's had any criticism from me, in fact I'd apply the above to him aswell.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
[/quote]

Where can I learn about this?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014614#msg1014614 date=1260891491]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37882.msg1014173#msg1014173 date=1260822013]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014125#msg1014125 date=1260816311]
If you're out of form you're a defensive player. [/quote]

Here's the trend I see - and this isn't pertaining to you.

All the Dirk'a'holics we have on this site get all ancy and angry when people say he's been off for 2-3 months (bar two goals, one an open net and one against Billy Gallas). Though we all know he's a lovely, team first, hard working option - he's struggled just like he did last year.

**Waits for "Oh but Yossi is Shit and Dirk is so consistent and blah blah blah blah**
[/quote]

Here's how I see it. He steps up with goals in big games. Granted, he's not got the best touch, and like a few of those players in between the 'good' bracket and the 'Gerrard/Torres' bracket, he relies sometimes on the team functioning well so we see the best of him, that's why you have your best players, your 'spine', because they give some stability and quality that the rest of the side can play off.

I don't know where the Yossi thing came from because it's been a long long time since he's had any criticism from me, in fact I'd apply the above to him aswell.
[/quote]

I wasn't pointing that at you Markey Mark.

I have no issue with Kuyt when he's on form, or close to 'on form'. But when he's in a bad rut, as you've always been fairly honest in admitting, he needs to be benched or given a rest. The fact he starts every game when he's off form is detrimental to our team. But who cares .... This season is lost, we'll take it seriously again next year? 🙂
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37882.msg1014622#msg1014622 date=1260892738]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014614#msg1014614 date=1260891491]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37882.msg1014173#msg1014173 date=1260822013]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014125#msg1014125 date=1260816311]
If you're out of form you're a defensive player. [/quote]

Here's the trend I see - and this isn't pertaining to you.

All the Dirk'a'holics we have on this site get all ancy and angry when people say he's been off for 2-3 months (bar two goals, one an open net and one against Billy Gallas). Though we all know he's a lovely, team first, hard working option - he's struggled just like he did last year.

**Waits for "Oh but Yossi is Shit and Dirk is so consistent and blah blah blah blah**
[/quote]

Here's how I see it. He steps up with goals in big games. Granted, he's not got the best touch, and like a few of those players in between the 'good' bracket and the 'Gerrard/Torres' bracket, he relies sometimes on the team functioning well so we see the best of him, that's why you have your best players, your 'spine', because they give some stability and quality that the rest of the side can play off.

I don't know where the Yossi thing came from because it's been a long long time since he's had any criticism from me, in fact I'd apply the above to him aswell.
[/quote]

I wasn't pointing that at you Markey Mark.

I have no issue with Kuyt when he's on form, or close to 'on form'. But when he's in a bad rut, as you've always been fairly honest in admitting, he needs to be benched or given a rest.
[/quote]

I've said the same for some time. An out of form Dirk Kuyt is one of Rafa's blindspots, there's no doubt about it.

Although there have been a few signs of improvement recently.
 
It's probably more about options that anything, Yossi plays on the left occasionally through necessity, ideally he'd play in the hole but Gerrard (when fit) is a must. Not really seen enough of Yossi on the right but I'm guessing he'd have more or less the same problems as he does on the left, ie he's not a wide player really.

Regards Kuyt, I think it's fair to also mention he's either had to cover alot for a defensively inept Glen Jo or whoever has deputised for him. He's had his fair share of defensive duty and I don't mind that he offers that, the team needs to attack and defend as a side. When we're not functioning as an attacking unit, it's usually because Torres and/or Gerrard are missing and it effects everyone. Though to be fair, and to cut Kuyt AND Yossi some slack, they carried us well last season, we needed to add further attacking depth to supplement that and we haven't.
 
khl doesn't accept criticism of his beloved danny boy ,ltw wants kuyt dropped in favor of his yossi and i support momo and elzhar just cause they are muslims .player's form has nothing to do with it.Am i allowed to use a smilley?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014627#msg1014627 date=1260893814]
It's probably more about options that anything, Yossi plays on the left occasionally through necessity, ideally he'd play in the hole but Gerrard (when fit) is a must. Not really seen enough of Yossi on the right but I'm guessing he'd have more or less the same problems as he does on the left, ie he's not a wide player really.

Regards Kuyt, I think it's fair to also mention he's either had to cover alot for a defensively inept Glen Jo or whoever has deputised for him. He's had his fair share of defensive duty and I don't mind that he offers that, the team needs to attack and defend as a side. When we're not functioning as an attacking unit, it's usually because Torres and/or Gerrard are missing and it effects everyone. Though to be fair, and to cut Kuyt AND Yossi some slack, they carried us well last season, we needed to add further attacking depth to supplement that and we haven't.
[/quote]

Yossi's definitely better on the right, he's played there far more than anywhere else, and seems comfortable switching positions with Dirk to good effect.

As for cutting them some slack I disagree. Last season was what we should expect from Liverpool attacking players. This season they've both been pretty crap.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014627#msg1014627 date=1260893814]
Regards Kuyt, I think it's fair to also mention he's either had to cover alot for a defensively inept Glen Jo or whoever has deputised for him. He's had his fair share of defensive duty and I don't mind that he offers that, the team needs to attack and defend as a side. When we're not functioning as an attacking unit, it's usually because Torres and/or Gerrard are missing and it effects everyone. Though to be fair, and to cut Kuyt AND Yossi some slack, they carried us well last season, we needed to add further attacking depth to supplement that and we haven't.
[/quote]

Surely that's a bit harsh, it can't be easy trying to slot into an out-of-form and/or constantly rotating backline
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=37882.msg1014649#msg1014649 date=1260895259]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014627#msg1014627 date=1260893814]
Regards Kuyt, I think it's fair to also mention he's either had to cover alot for a defensively inept Glen Jo or whoever has deputised for him. He's had his fair share of defensive duty and I don't mind that he offers that, the team needs to attack and defend as a side. When we're not functioning as an attacking unit, it's usually because Torres and/or Gerrard are missing and it effects everyone. Though to be fair, and to cut Kuyt AND Yossi some slack, they carried us well last season, we needed to add further attacking depth to supplement that and we haven't.
[/quote]

Surely that's a bit harsh, it can't be easy trying to slot into an out-of-form and/or constantly rotating backline
[/quote]

You don't think he has issues? We're constantly exposed by both fullbacks. I know his injuries haven't helped but he's always been a bit suspect defensively and not just for us.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014627#msg1014627 date=1260893814]
It's probably more about options that anything, Yossi plays on the left occasionally through necessity, ideally he'd play in the hole but Gerrard (when fit) is a must. Not really seen enough of Yossi on the right but I'm guessing he'd have more or less the same problems as he does on the left, ie he's not a wide player really.

Regards Kuyt, I think it's fair to also mention he's either had to cover alot for a defensively inept Glen Jo or whoever has deputised for him. He's had his fair share of defensive duty and I don't mind that he offers that, the team needs to attack and defend as a side. When we're not functioning as an attacking unit, it's usually because Torres and/or Gerrard are missing and it effects everyone. Though to be fair, and to cut Kuyt AND Yossi some slack, they carried us well last season, we needed to add further attacking depth to supplement that and we haven't.
[/quote]

The point I made earlier in this thread, and got cricisised for is, do we really need a midfield with three defensive players in it? I was also making the point that as well as those three we had another 5 defenders on the bench
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014661#msg1014661 date=1260895658]
You don't think he has issues? We're constantly exposed by both fullbacks. I know his injuries haven't helped but he's always been a bit suspect defensively and not just for us.
[/quote]

He has issues, but I still think you are being harsh. Having two centre backs playing somewhere near their full ability and having a left back that could defend would do Magic a world of good.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=37882.msg1014673#msg1014673 date=1260896649]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014661#msg1014661 date=1260895658]
You don't think he has issues? We're constantly exposed by both fullbacks. I know his injuries haven't helped but he's always been a bit suspect defensively and not just for us.
[/quote]

He has issues, but I still think you are being harsh. Having two centre backs playing somewhere near their full ability and having a left back that could defend would do Magic a world of good.
[/quote]

It's all contributory. Attacking fullbacks not covering impacts on the centre backs, because they get stretched to cover and it creates gaps. Agger, Carra, Skrtel and Zorba have all played in various combinations this season and we've still conceded and generally looked vulnerable. So either they're all shit or below par, or there's a system issue. Personally I think it's the latter, the zonal system (which has had flaws in the past with us) isn't being executed well at all, and the fullbacks aren't tucking in to cover and compress the backline.
 
[quote author=aquaman4 link=topic=37882.msg1014633#msg1014633 date=1260894268]
khl doesn't accept criticism of his beloved danny boy ,ltw wants kuyt dropped in favor of his yossi and i support momo and elzhar just cause they are muslims .player's form has nothing to do with it.Am i allowed to use a smilley?
[/quote]

You see what I'm saying Mark? That's my point exactly.

Just for the umpteenth time, I think Yossi and Kuyt are ideally suited to being on the BENCH. They wouldn't start for Chelsea or Manure or Arsenal, and that says enough for me. Just because Yossi is Israeli, doesn't mean I have a 'blind spot' for him. He belongs on the bench, end of.

**bids adieu**
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37882.msg1014690#msg1014690 date=1260898423]
[quote author=aquaman4 link=topic=37882.msg1014633#msg1014633 date=1260894268]
khl doesn't accept criticism of his beloved danny boy ,ltw wants kuyt dropped in favor of his yossi and i support momo and elzhar just cause they are muslims .player's form has nothing to do with it.Am i allowed to use a smilley?
[/quote]

You see what I'm saying Mark? That's my point exactly.

Just for the umpteenth time, I think Yossi and Kuyt are ideally suited to being on the BENCH. They wouldn't start for Chelsea or Manure or Arsenal, and that says enough for me. Just because Yossi is Israeli, doesn't mean I have a 'blind spot' for him. He belongs on the bench, end of.

**bids adieu**
[/quote]

I think either of them could start for those teams, or at least United. Look at the players individually who get in their side. With United, it's all about keeping it simple, playing basic pass and move stuff, staying as a unit and attacking as a team. They've had some dross over the years who have been brought through the club and its style of play and they've always come in a done a good job, if the likes of O'Shea, Park, Brown etc, were at Liverpool, you'd be saying the same thing, and Kuyt and Yossi are better than those three examples. Would you rather have Yossi or Valencia?
 
I think most people would given that they are about the same level, but Valencia is 5 years younger and prolly will improve, Yossi is as good as he is going to get.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37882.msg1014725#msg1014725 date=1260903028]
Valencia
[/quote]

Hardly and out and out victory though eh? I know you've never been a Casper lover anyway.

Kuyt and Yossi have both proven they can make a valuable contribution to a big club.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=37882.msg1014733#msg1014733 date=1260903970]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37882.msg1014725#msg1014725 date=1260903028]
Valencia
[/quote]

Hardly and out and out victory though eh? I know you've never been a Casper lover anyway.

Kuyt and Yossi have both proven they can make a valuable contribution to a big club.
[/quote]

He told me he cried when he scored the game winner in Madrid, "Why Casper, why?"

And I agree with the last sentence, which is why I want both at the club. They both can play pivotal roles - and as we saw last year, for long periods. However, I think it's best we do NOT rely on them as evident by this year where both failed to carry us when we were with neither Gerrard or Torres, or crocked versions of our stars.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
[/quote]

I'm fully aware of "zonal marking in open play" thanks Drizzt.

I'm also fully aware that Agger got far too close To Arshavin too far from his own goal, letting Arshavin turn and play the ball to Fabregas who had acres of space in the hole. From that moment on we were stretched, had players out of position, and conceded as a result. One of our centre backs was 30 yards from goal when the ball hit the net.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014837#msg1014837 date=1260915254]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
[/quote]

I'm fully aware of "zonal marking in open play" thanks Drizzt.

I'm also fully aware that Agger got far too close To Arshavin too far from his own goal, letting Arshavin turn and play the ball to Fabregas who had acres of space in the hole. From that moment on we were stretched, had players out of position, and conceded as a result. One of our centre backs was 30 yards from goal when the ball hit the net.
[/quote]

WRONG. First rule of Zonal marking, player closest to the ball applies pressure.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014936#msg1014936 date=1260931617]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014837#msg1014837 date=1260915254]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
[/quote]

I'm fully aware of "zonal marking in open play" thanks Drizzt.

I'm also fully aware that Agger got far too close To Arshavin too far from his own goal, letting Arshavin turn and play the ball to Fabregas who had acres of space in the hole. From that moment on we were stretched, had players out of position, and conceded as a result. One of our centre backs was 30 yards from goal when the ball hit the net.
[/quote]

WRONG. First rule of Zonal marking, player closest to the ball applies pressure.
[/quote]

Jesus Christ.

Agger shouldn't have tracked him that far. That's the whole point of "zones" you stay in your own, and don't meander 40 yards up the pitch following someone WHEN YOU'RE A CENTRE HALF.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014939#msg1014939 date=1260931992]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014936#msg1014936 date=1260931617]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014837#msg1014837 date=1260915254]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
[/quote]

I'm fully aware of "zonal marking in open play" thanks Drizzt.

I'm also fully aware that Agger got far too close To Arshavin too far from his own goal, letting Arshavin turn and play the ball to Fabregas who had acres of space in the hole. From that moment on we were stretched, had players out of position, and conceded as a result. One of our centre backs was 30 yards from goal when the ball hit the net.
[/quote]

WRONG. First rule of Zonal marking, player closest to the ball applies pressure.
[/quote]

Jesus Christ.

Agger shouldn't have tracked him that far. That's the whole point of "zones" you stay in your own, and don't meander 40 yards up the pitch following someone WHEN YOU'RE A CENTRE HALF.
[/quote]

When someone says that you KNOW they don't understand zonal marking in open play. It's why coaches don't call it zonal marking.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014941#msg1014941 date=1260932679]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014939#msg1014939 date=1260931992]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014936#msg1014936 date=1260931617]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1014837#msg1014837 date=1260915254]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=37882.msg1014576#msg1014576 date=1260886548]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37882.msg1013468#msg1013468 date=1260743344]
I thought he was the major fault for the first goal. Why did he dive into Arshaving 40 yards from his own goal, there was simply no fucking need. It's not the firsttime either, instead of holding his position, standing up and letting Arshavin go, he fucking leaps in, we're turned and fucked.

It's something great defenders like Carragher never do. It was the first, and pretty much the only time, Fabregas got space in the hole. they strecthed us from it, and the goal came. At this level, against quality sides, you simply can't afford to make fucking amateur errors like that. He's got a lot of learning still to do Agger.

Of course it was unfortunate and unlucky that Glenjo bundled it in, but for me it goes back to how they actually got in behind us in the first place. A nothing interchange of play, and Agger gets drawn badly out of position. 1-1.
[/quote]

You could seriously do with acquainting yourself with the concept of zonal marking in open play. Because your assessment is basically arse backwards.
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I'm fully aware of "zonal marking in open play" thanks Drizzt.

I'm also fully aware that Agger got far too close To Arshavin too far from his own goal, letting Arshavin turn and play the ball to Fabregas who had acres of space in the hole. From that moment on we were stretched, had players out of position, and conceded as a result. One of our centre backs was 30 yards from goal when the ball hit the net.
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WRONG. First rule of Zonal marking, player closest to the ball applies pressure.
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Jesus Christ.

Agger shouldn't have tracked him that far. That's the whole point of "zones" you stay in your own, and don't meander 40 yards up the pitch following someone WHEN YOU'RE A CENTRE HALF.
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When someone says that you KNOW they don't understand zonal marking in open play. It's why coaches don't call it zonal marking.

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Honestly Drizzt, I'd actually like to have this conversation with you, but you seem to not have a fucking clue, so that's a problem.

You're suggesting it was fine for Agger to follow Arshavin halfway up the pitch because "zonal marking in open play" allows it.

I'm here to tell you it doesn't, because otherwise you'd have Agger (and everyone else) running all over the fucking park*.



* Don't get me wrong, I'm down with players interchanging, swopping roles, passing on players etc. But this specific Agger issue is not that. He got drawn out of position badly, with no pereciveable cover, leaving us stretched, exposed, and fucked.
 
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