can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
Pressing higher up the pitch
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So what we sit back for around 80 of the 90 minutes at fucking Wigan? I don't mean move the whole team up, but the strikers could close down more and the midfield don't need to be so deep all of the time.
T
the_khl
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We are standing far to deep and has done so for the majority of the Season. We are not keeping our lines close enough hence we are far to often giving away possession. Long balls is another irritating outcome of these negative tactics.
Roy is solely to blame for this.
That players can't find a teammate today is not his fault but the tactics aren't helping one bit.
Roy is solely to blame for this.
That players can't find a teammate today is not his fault but the tactics aren't helping one bit.
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=42701.msg1215707#msg1215707 date=1289427112]
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote]
We struggled to maintain possession when we had the ball, but worse than that, we were fucking rubbish at winning it back, neither when we'd lost it, nor when we hadn't really had it for ages.
It's partly to do with Budgie organising the defence, but it's mostly because we don't have Mascherano anymore or anyone remotely similar.
We can hold a higher line when we can keep possession even under difficult circumstances (ie against physical players that are trying to get to our men quickly). Until then we have to play on the counter.
First things first - a defensive mid of serious quality
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote]
We struggled to maintain possession when we had the ball, but worse than that, we were fucking rubbish at winning it back, neither when we'd lost it, nor when we hadn't really had it for ages.
It's partly to do with Budgie organising the defence, but it's mostly because we don't have Mascherano anymore or anyone remotely similar.
We can hold a higher line when we can keep possession even under difficult circumstances (ie against physical players that are trying to get to our men quickly). Until then we have to play on the counter.
First things first - a defensive mid of serious quality
Surely both teams can't press high up the pitch, everyone would be offside. It just wasn't our turn today.
The centre circle is a massive 'Frustration' dice presser thingy. The teams take turns prior to the game. Unfortunately we only ever roll a 1.
I fucking hate dice presser thingies, takes all the pleasure away from rolling dice. It's like playing poker with condoms on your hands, that's literally what it's exactly sort of like.
I thought that Wigan were in for a thumping after the way we started the game. We genuinely played some good football. Great finish by Torres for the goal.
I'm not sure why we stood back after about 20 minutes and let them run at us. That's always a bad idea. Their equaliser had a bit fo inevitability about it. We were rubbish at retaining possession and closing them down not to mention winning the ball back. Too many stray passes last night and we ran out of steam.
Pity because it was a lost opportunity to make up lost ground.
I'm not sure why we stood back after about 20 minutes and let them run at us. That's always a bad idea. Their equaliser had a bit fo inevitability about it. We were rubbish at retaining possession and closing them down not to mention winning the ball back. Too many stray passes last night and we ran out of steam.
Pity because it was a lost opportunity to make up lost ground.
I don't think letting them run at as was intentional.
We didn't have gas to play like the way we started for the entire game.
Torres and Kuyt were up for it though. It was pity the midfield couldn't support.
We didn't have gas to play like the way we started for the entire game.
Torres and Kuyt were up for it though. It was pity the midfield couldn't support.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=42701.msg1215735#msg1215735 date=1289427943]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42701.msg1215713#msg1215713 date=1289427272]
Did you see what Wigan's best assets were?
[/quote]
A young, ambitious, manager?
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^^^
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42701.msg1215713#msg1215713 date=1289427272]
Did you see what Wigan's best assets were?
[/quote]
A young, ambitious, manager?
[/quote]
^^^
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=42701.msg1215707#msg1215707 date=1289427112]
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote] from what I saw of wigan I would not say they are likely to be flirting with the bottom three they have some very good players and a good manager.
That said I think you are right we do sit back and invite people to have a go at us. Which was part of the problem that and the inability to hold on to the ball and or find a red shirt. Who was it on Sunday masquerading as Lucas?
Regards
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote] from what I saw of wigan I would not say they are likely to be flirting with the bottom three they have some very good players and a good manager.
That said I think you are right we do sit back and invite people to have a go at us. Which was part of the problem that and the inability to hold on to the ball and or find a red shirt. Who was it on Sunday masquerading as Lucas?
Regards
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42701.msg1215790#msg1215790 date=1289429880]
Surely both teams can't press high up the pitch, everyone would be offside. It just wasn't our turn today.
[/quote]
It's hardly ever Roy's 'turn' away from home. And it's no coincidence either.
Surely both teams can't press high up the pitch, everyone would be offside. It just wasn't our turn today.
[/quote]
It's hardly ever Roy's 'turn' away from home. And it's no coincidence either.
Roys tactics doesn't involve pressing high up the picth. He doesn't like it. That works fine against some teams, but when you're supposed to take charge of the game and be dominant. It doesn't work.
But, why is anybody surprised? It's an average tactic used by an average manager that has gotten us to a very average 9th in the league with an average of nearly a goal a game.
Roy Hodgson is average.
But, why is anybody surprised? It's an average tactic used by an average manager that has gotten us to a very average 9th in the league with an average of nearly a goal a game.
Roy Hodgson is average.
I'm not sold for a minute on the "fatigue" excuse either. It's the same for everybody.
there are definate cons to pressing (or attempting to press) high up the pitch, I just think the pros outweigh the cons.
Granted, but what I don't get is why we and we alone should try to use that as an excuse. Didn't Wigan also play at the weekend? Don't the other Prem clubs taking part in European competitions have an equally crowded fixture list? If they can get over these obstacles, why couldn't we?
There was some tactical analysis done a month or so ago, that looked at the differences between the way Rafa and Roy set up their teams.
Roy likes his defenders to defend around the edge of the box (which is one of the reasons Reina's so unhappy) and midfield not much more advanced from them, which is why long balls in Torres' direction are so in vogue, and why Chelsea and Wigan were allowed to attack relentlessly - does anyone think we'd have kept a clean sheet vs Chelsea if Drogba was fit?
It's a horrible horrible system
Roy likes his defenders to defend around the edge of the box (which is one of the reasons Reina's so unhappy) and midfield not much more advanced from them, which is why long balls in Torres' direction are so in vogue, and why Chelsea and Wigan were allowed to attack relentlessly - does anyone think we'd have kept a clean sheet vs Chelsea if Drogba was fit?
It's a horrible horrible system
Skrtel has proven he can handle Dogbreath even when he's fit. Other than that, though, good post.
[quote author=DBP link=topic=42701.msg1216131#msg1216131 date=1289482270]
There was some tactical analysis done a month or so ago, that looked at the differences between the way Rafa and Roy set up their teams.
Roy likes his defenders to defend around the edge of the box (which is one of the reasons Reina's so unhappy) and midfield not much more advanced from them, which is why long balls in Torres' direction are so in vogue, and why Chelsea and Wigan were allowed to attack relentlessly - does anyone think we'd have kept a clean sheet vs Chelsea if Drogba was fit?
It's a horrible horrible system
[/quote]
Probably no. Definetly no, if Lampard or Essien were there. We just about held on as it was.
And yes.
There was some tactical analysis done a month or so ago, that looked at the differences between the way Rafa and Roy set up their teams.
Roy likes his defenders to defend around the edge of the box (which is one of the reasons Reina's so unhappy) and midfield not much more advanced from them, which is why long balls in Torres' direction are so in vogue, and why Chelsea and Wigan were allowed to attack relentlessly - does anyone think we'd have kept a clean sheet vs Chelsea if Drogba was fit?
It's a horrible horrible system
[/quote]
Probably no. Definetly no, if Lampard or Essien were there. We just about held on as it was.
And yes.
I know it was Wigan, but I've not seen too many teams this season attack us with pace both through the middle and outwide. Wigan are too good to be relegated. That said, we should have imposed ourselves on the game more and passed the ball better, we certainly lack pace and power at times.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=42701.msg1215750#msg1215750 date=1289428520]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=42701.msg1215707#msg1215707 date=1289427112]
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote]
We struggled to maintain possession when we had the ball, but worse than that, we were fucking rubbish at winning it back, neither when we'd lost it, nor when we hadn't really had it for ages.
It's partly to do with Budgie organising the defence, but it's mostly because we don't have Mascherano anymore or anyone remotely similar.
[/quote]
That's the only point worth bothering with.
I said early on in the match thread that we will need to keep the ball well today because, having named an unnamed side, we would not have the energy to press them for great periods of time. Sadly, the team's passing was truly awful, and we paid the price for it.
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=42701.msg1215707#msg1215707 date=1289427112]
can't be that fucking hard. Wigan are a poor side who will be in and around the relegation battle this season and at times they were allowed to knock it about as if they were Barcelona. The very FEW times we pressed high up the pitch they gave it away. Roy needs to realise that depsite the fact that we're in the Europa League and despite the fact that Paul Konchesky is our first choice left back, we are not fucking Fulham and a point at Wigan is a poor result, not a good one.
[/quote]
We struggled to maintain possession when we had the ball, but worse than that, we were fucking rubbish at winning it back, neither when we'd lost it, nor when we hadn't really had it for ages.
It's partly to do with Budgie organising the defence, but it's mostly because we don't have Mascherano anymore or anyone remotely similar.
[/quote]
That's the only point worth bothering with.
I said early on in the match thread that we will need to keep the ball well today because, having named an unnamed side, we would not have the energy to press them for great periods of time. Sadly, the team's passing was truly awful, and we paid the price for it.
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