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Post villa relief

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I think we needed a striker up top who could weigh in with the goals, with and without Sturridge, but you're right. The planning should have been for someone who walked into the system effortlessly, someone with movement and the ability to hit teams in tight games. There's definitely a change in approach when we have to rely solely on Benteke, but I think when you have Sturridge fit then it works, he'll get goals. Just don't isolate him when Sturridge isn't there.
 
peterhague said:
Planning around him is not the same as planning to rely on him.

The solution, as I said repeatedly in the summer, should have been an attack that works well with him and without him, with quite loosely defined roles filled by versatile players - guys like Depay and Martial at Utd.

It's actually repeated mistakes of this nature - suggestive of a TOTAL lack of planning - that have most soured me on Rodgers.
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I don't disagree - I was pretty much of the same opinion in the summer.

It's a mistake that I feel is still resolvable though - you need some clever tactical thinking, and requiring Benteke to adjust his playing style (rather than getting the likes of Coutinho, Lallana etc. to adjust their styles to Benteke).

I made this comparison earlier - use Benteke like Hasselbaink. His best attribute isn't his 'target man' ability - it's his strength and shooting.

Which means you have to minimise his role in the build-up play as much as possible. Get someone else next to him to the bulk of the running and creating - Ings or Firmino.

But like @rurikbird has been saying in another thread, when Sturridge is fit, don't have Benteke in the team at all.
 
dmishra said:
I don't disagree - I was pretty much of the same opinion in the summer.

It's a mistake that I feel is still resolvable though - you need some clever tactical thinking, and requiring Benteke to adjust his playing style (rather than getting the likes of Coutinho, Lallana etc. to adjust their styles to Benteke).

I made this comparison earlier - use Benteke like Hasselbaink. His best attribute isn't his 'target man' ability - it's his strength and shooting.

Which means you have to minimise his role in the build-up play as much as possible. Get someone else next to him to the bulk of the running and creating - Ings or Firmino.

But like @rurikbird has been saying in another thread, when Sturridge is fit, don't have Benteke in the team at all.
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Well I admire your enthusiasm. Personally I just feel angry at the wasted opportunity - something we can so ill afford after so many years of mediocrity.

To me a solution to the problem of fitting Benteke and Sturridge in the same side that invloves Benteke not being in the side is - rather obviously - not a solution. It's an admission of failure.
 
peterhague said:
Well I admire your enthusiasm. Personally I just feel angry at the wasted opportunity - something we can so ill afford after so many years of mediocrity.

To me a solution to the problem of fitting Benteke and Sturridge in the same side that invloves Benteke not being in the side is - rather obviously - not a solution. It's an admission of failure.
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Oh, I don't have any faith in Rodgers being able to fix it.

The only point is that this squad is not beyond fixing. There's a lot of talent both in midfield and attack in this squad - even if it is something that doesn't come together coherently at the moment.

A top manager should be moulding it into a top 4 team easily, with a bare minimum of extra investment.
 
I think it's all pointing at Mignolet again to be honest.
I'm not sure Given Sakho's reaction to the first goal that he was given a shout to leave it, but that's conjecture. Sakho found himself wrong-footed and out muscled for the second although I believe anything in the air in the 6 yard box is the goalies - Can was all over the place a times. I thought there were a good few positives to come out of it, besides Studge. I don't rate Lucas but he had a decent game and seemed to be playing higher up the pitch. Moreno gets better, Ings is looking decent and Milner was better than he has recently
 
dmishra said:
Oh, I don't have any faith in Rodgers being able to fix it.

The only point is that this squad is not beyond fixing. There's a lot of talent both in midfield and attack in this squad - even if it is something that doesn't come together coherently at the moment.

A top manager should be moulding it into a top 4 team easily, with a bare minimum of extra investment.
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Yes I agree that it can be fixed in a limited sense. I'm not actually very confident it can be done in time to regain a top 4 place, though. I really think we're either very close to or just beyond the point of 'no easy return' from being a team that finishes 5-8th and no higher. I thought the patient work of the last few years of signing young and highly talented players would pay off, but so much of that is being squandered or was badly implemented in the first place.

The big teams now seem close to securing an overwhelming advantage in money, playing assets, off the pitch organisation, leadership, prestige - almost everything that matters.

Who knows. I hope we get Klopp or Ancelotti and we continue to get lucky from our rivals' sloppiness. I really hope so.
 
He has reverted to type - When he came back last year after being dropped - you could see him making conscious decisions to get off his line quickly and attach the ball in the air - that's all stopped again
 
No wonder every one of our international multi zillion quid centre halves look crap at the minute, they're all shitting themselves stood in front of him. He doesn't come for anything, he punches things he could catch with a good clench of his arse, he stands on his line when he should come and take the ball and the forward and his team mate out, because at the very heart of the problem is the one thing you can't coach. He's a fucking shithouse.
 
It's not just his fault. He was the Northeast's player of the year when we bought him, and no matter how crap Newcastle and Sunderland might be that's a pretty decent accolade. Our coaching is shit. So shit in fact that we should buy a keeper every year in the knowledge that the one we just got will defo be a lot worse by May than when he got here in August, and that the rot will only continue. We need a conveyer belt of the sorry cunts.
 
Woland said:
It's not just his fault. He was the Northeast's player of the year when we bought him, and no matter how crap Newcastle and Sunderland might be that's a pretty decent accolade. Our coaching is shit. So shit in fact that we should buy a keeper every year in the knowledge that the one we just got will defo be a lot worse by May than when he got here in August, and that the rot will only continue. We need a conveyer belt of the sorry cunts.
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This is very true. You also find the keeping coach having a large input into what keeper the club targets in the first place.
 
Say what You want about Reina and his poor season before he left, but he was a leader and we replaced him by a fluke. Poor decision.
 
I don't think it's that easy getting rid of Ming.

Who do we replace him with ?

There's not many world-class keepers out there who's available.

Mind you, I reckon an aging Buffon is still miles better than Ming.
 
Yesterday was so frustrating because of it... At moments in attack they looked like they'd really clicked and we could give anyone a game... but what's the point when we just so pathetic in defense. What was Can doing volleying it back across his own box in the first half? What the hell is Mingolet constantly shouting about? Both goals were ridiculous, they were like something off an early FIFA game, like FIFA 97 or something, where you'd be looking at the screen going nah I've been had off by the computer there... real people don't play like that.

That Lovren gif someone posted after Carlisle was the ultimate bad AI defending. What are they being taught? I know it's all dead old fashioned but when George Graham had boring boring Arsenal set up almost impossible to score against he used to tie Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn together at the wrist with a rope in training so they couldn't ever not hold that line, until it became almost telepathic. Rodgers would argue that he needs a load more fluidity from his defenders than that and explain over a 40 minute self referential podcast what he was trying to do... but just look at the state of what he's made.

Let's go round his house and kick his fucking head in.
 
I stopped reading when it sounded like people were going to criticise Rodgers for not planning with a Sturridge return in mind.
 
Woland said:
I don't see how Bogdan can be any worse than Ming, I can't remember us ever having a worse keeper.
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He reminds me alot of Westerveld, good shot stopper occasionally but absolutely zero command of his area. Though Westerveld was alot better with his kicking.
 
We wanted to win for the manager," said Lucas.

"We know what has been said about him and think we showed we are a group of players behind him and trying to make everything right."

The Brazil midfielder added: "We know the pressure is on him but we wanted to play the way he wants us to play and I think we did that."

"Football is a crazy game, lots of things get said and it changes so fast," skipper James Milner told liverpoolfc.com.

"We just need make sure that we concentrate on what's happening in that dressing room with the backroom staff, the manager and the players, we stick together and hopefully this can kick-start this next run of games for us.

"It says a lot about the team that we kept going and got the win.

" I think we had the better of the game - in terms of chances, possession and territory but the big man they had up front was dangerous.
"They got two goals and that's something for us to work on."
 
Judge Jules said:
I'm not sure about that TBH. To me it sounds more like a fella struggling to save himself. Either way it's pretty ill-judged.
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I don't think it was ill intentioned and it sounded tinged with relief but he clearly has a certain amount of disconnect between what he think is acceptable and what the fans expect after three years and millions of pounds.

He may just may have a life line back in the form of Sturridge...

In truth I do not give a flying fuck who is in charge as long as we start fucking winning... If it's a delusional idiot I couldn't care less as long as he's a lucky delusional idiot.
 
Molbystwin said:
In truth I do not give a flying fuck who is in charge as long as we start fucking winning... If it's a delusional idiot I couldn't care less as long as he's a lucky delusional idiot.
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This is my thought as well. At the end of the season it's the points that count.
 
Hansern said:
Sakho could have done better but he's up against a player that comes running in to the box and jumps. Thats nearly impossible to defend against when its a player like Gestede and you're standing still.

Ming was poor for both goals imho.
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This is accurate. The Sakho haters are going to hate.
 
Frogfish said:
This is accurate. The Sakho haters are going to hate.
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He or someone else could have stuck close to Gestede and not let him run. What else was he occupying himself with? It's not like they have alot of options out there. It's Gestede and still Gestede. We had 3 central defenders for fucks' sakes.

Just look at how other teams are defending Benteke. They know we are not going to get many into the box. They crowd around him or hold a higher line to push him out. There are many ways to defend against a big strong strikers but we just never got it.

Gestede last scored against Norwich, 1 goal in 6 games. It's not like he has been raining goals. We gave him 2.
 
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