Post villa relief

[RedStar]

First goal seems to have been a series of errors, from Lucas getting done by Hutton to Sakho letting the cross go, Mignolet letting it go, and Can ball watching as the striker ghosted in to score. It did look on second glance though as though Sakho deliberately pulled out which makes me suspect he got a shout from the keeper, hard to say though. That sort of comedy defending is indicative of a side devoid of confidence though so its not really surprising.

On the plus side, great to see Sturridge back and firing, hopefully its 2 up top for the foreseeable future. Given the players at our disposable its the most suitable system with Coutinho breaking forward from the midfield.

 

[gareth_thomas]

Zero subs until 93 min... Poor use of subs makes me mad.

 

[Roopy]

Great to get the win.

But those 2 goals we conceded were just absolutely fucking horrendous.

 

[Gary25]

First goal was very much avoidable. Their 2nd though...was it really that bad? great cross in and bullet header with Gestede having a run on Sakho.

 

[reuque]

This was posted on The Anfield Wrap page after the win. The Brendan Rodgers of Liverpool fan blogs.

Text from Rob:
Tantalising close to a proper performance and scoreline but undone largely by a keeper who should've been replaced in January, never mind the summer. Positionally and tactically the worst in his position in the top flight.
Still, let's not be pofaced, we created chances and in significant parts resembled a Liverpool side again.
Loved the way Sturridge eased himself into the game, but my main man was Coutinho by a country mile. Way short of his best but it's a measure of his quality that he can be 5/10 by his standards and still be the most influential player on the pitch .
I've seen MOM shouts for Lucas and while he was imperious second half he was a real part of the problem in the first. Coutinho throughout was ahead of him in terms of ball winning, ball retention and creativity.
For Ings it was a game too far, but the manner in which a 70% model Sturridge was able to take and make the game his own was a tantalising glimpse of how we may yet conjour a season.
Don't want to talk about managers. Let's talk about players again. Let's talk about winning. Bring on the Blue Shite.

 

[RedStar]

This was posted on The Anfield Wrap page after the win. The Brendan Rodgers of Liverpool fan blogs.

They have a point about Ming Id swap him for pretty much any other top 10 keeper, hes so shite that when somebody else fucks up and costs us a goal he doesnt even get mad hes just relieved it was him for once

 

[dmishra]

How was Bogdan against Carlisle? I know Pesam said very charitable things about Bogdan during pre-season.

Maybe we should stick him in the first team.

 

[Hansern]

The first goal we conceded was horrendous, the second not so much.

Lucas best game in a red shirt? Come on. Good game but lets not go overboard. Still gave the ball away stupidly and these silly fouls followed by that grinn of "what? Foul? But I just kicked him a little?".
We need better. Much better.

 

[Mamma Mia]

The first goal we conceded was horrendous, the second not so much.

Lucas best game in a red shirt? Come on. Good game but lets not go overboard. Still gave the ball away stupidly and these silly fouls followed by that grinn of "what? Foul? But I just kicked him a little?".
We need better. Much better.

It wasn't his best game by any stretch, but if Can managed to do exactly what Lucas did yesterday this forum would be creaming itself.

 

[rurikbird]

It wasn't his best game by any stretch, but if Can managed to do exactly what Lucas did yesterday this forum would be creaming itself.

And for a good reason. If Can was as good at defending and reading the game as Lucas, with his superior physique and goal threat, he would be a new Viera.

 

[gareth_thomas]

I thought the 1st was embarrassing poor. It highlights why Can shouldn't be playing CB and why speed is important for covering defensive midfielders. The cross should never have even arrived in the box. The second was a great cross and terrific header. One could argue that Clyne should have closed down the cross quicker and Sakho could have impacted Gestade's run/jump...but it happened very quickly. I can imagine villa scoring quite a few like that this season.

It was frustrating to see us work so hard to create chances..yet at the other end, gift them chance after chance. Can failed to clear the ball on several occasions.. Can's poor volleys added to Skrtel's 50p shaped head is gonna result in a few gifts.

Amavi is a great signing for them. Didn't he top the tackles/interceptions table in ligue 1? His crossing was the biggest surprise. I can see them making a decent profit on him.

 

[Hansern]

It wasn't his best game by any stretch, but if Can managed to do exactly what Lucas did yesterday this forum would be creaming itself.

If given, what is unusual on this forum, time. He certainly will offer more in general and be a much better player.
The question is wheter or not it will be in that position.

One is a 21 year old kid still developing, the other has been here for 8 years.
For a first team player we need much better. Lucas isnt good enough.

 

[StevieM]

I think it's clear from Rodgers post match comments that he was referring specifically to SCM.

It's only a matter of time before he accuses people of "agenda-driven nonsense", "constantly repeating the same dull points" and demands to know where @Red Astaire is going on holiday next.

 

[Judge Jules]

If given, what is unusual on this forum, time. He certainly will offer more in general and be a much better player.
The question is wheter or not it will be in that position.

One is a 21 year old kid still developing, the other has been here for 8 years.
For a first team player we need much better. Lucas isnt good enough.

I'd be amazed if Can's long-term future turns out to be as a DM. Part of the problem with him is that, because he's a big unit, his managers (for club and country) keep trying to play him in a largely defensive role when that just isn't what suits him, and part of the problem with discussing him on here is that too many posters just assume that's what should continue to happen. It isn't. Play him further forward and he'll be a beast.

 

[Hansern]

I'd be amazed if Can's long-term future turns out to be as a DM. Part of the problem with him is that, because he's a big unit, his managers (for club and country) keep trying to play him in a largely defensive role when that just isn't what suits him, and part of the problem with discussing him on here is that too many posters just assume that's what should continue to happen. It isn't. Play him further forward and he'll be a beast.

Thats true mate. Thats also his biggest problem at the moment, that we dont know where his best position is.
It all depends on the system for me. Currently we've got a manager who has spent 4 years trying to play 4-3-3 and then ending up with something else during the season.
Our transfers are also not in cohesion with any set system.

Hopefully our next manager will have a set system and Can will be developed in a role suited to him.

 

[Frogfish]

I'd be amazed if Can's long-term future turns out to be as a DM. Part of the problem with him is that, because he's a big unit, his managers (for club and country) keep trying to play him in a largely defensive role when that just isn't what suits him, and part of the problem with discussing him on here is that too many posters just assume that's what should continue to happen. It isn't. Play him further forward and he'll be a beast.

That will take a few years IMHO. I agree he's not a defensive-minded player or a DM. He's a CM but I'm afraid his passing, speed of thought and control need work. He's a good player to have in reserve (talking about CM) but should be nowhere near the starting team.

 

[Judge Jules]

I agree it'll take time - not sure about a few years necessarily, but I'd agree with an estimate of one or two if we (and preferably Germany) come to our collective senses and stop trying to turn him into something he ain't. It *will* take a few years if we persist in trying to squeeze this particular square peg into a round defensive hole meanwhile.

 

[mark1975]

How can one person be so arrogant... He is deluded..



Rodgers: "I am pretty confident that there is a group of people that don't want me here."



"I am talking about people outside here. I never worried about the players. They have been absolutely brilliant."



"In all competitions, we've lost less games than City, Chelsea & Arsenal. The hysteria around ourselves is interesting to note."



"Sometimes we haven't [even] lost games & the hysteria around it is pretty clear. Maybe something else going on from behind."

What do you want him to say? He's hitting back at bellends who have a complete lack of respect, idiots who want to dress up as Klopp at the game, the same fucktards that stand there holier than thou singing YNWA. If people want him gone he can have no complints, but he's eluding to the minority who go as far wanting the team to get beat. I'm sure you can relate to that.

 

[gkmacca]

He's hitting back at bellends who have a complete lack of respect, idiots who want to dress up as Klopp at the game, the same fucktards that stand there holier than thou singing YNWA.

Mark, he's really not, he's complaining about Lawrenson and others who have simply called it as it is and are now being demonised for doing their job. There haven't been pundits who've eagerly sniped at him with unfair criticism - if there had been he'd have reason for such an outburst, but there haven't been such critics. I don't know of any who've been anything other than subdued and reluctant is simply acknowledging bad performances, bad resuts and bad decisions. If you're a manager, that will hurt, but the truth hurts. You have to block it ut or learn from it. What you don't do is highlight it and denounce it - first, because it's unfair to do so, and second, because it provokes a fight you'll only lose.

 

[Insignificance]

What do you want him to say? He's hitting back at bellends who have a complete lack of respect, idiots who want to dress up as Klopp at the game, the same fucktards that stand there holier than thou singing YNWA. If people want him gone he can have no complints, but he's eluding to the minority who go as far wanting the team to get beat. I'm sure you can relate to that.

However true that is or isn't, if there is one group Rodgers need to win it is the fans. They are the real owners of the club. Earn their respect and you are fine. Fight them and your gone.

 

[Red Astaire]

I think it's clear from Rodgers post match comments that he was referring specifically to SCM.

It's only a matter of time before he accuses people of "agenda-driven nonsense", "constantly repeating the same dull points" and demands to know where @Red Astaire is going on holiday next.

Haha!

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Ings tire considerably towards the end. Not sure if he played in the league cup.

He provides alot of energy, heart and enthusiasm but he is just short of that little quality imo. If only he is a tad quicker, a tad stronger, technically a little better and he could be a very good player.

He would be a good mid table striker and nothing more imo.

I'm not sure about that I think you do him a bit of a disservice to be honest - Ings impressed me yesterday not only with his work-rate but his touch and passing, he's not the quickest player, but then again he is no slouch either- somebody said in another thread he does all Studge's dirty work - he also tracks back and wins tackles in the midfield as well.
He's like Diirk Kuyt with touch.

 

[mark1975]

Mark, he's really not, he's complaining about Lawrenson and others who have simply called it as it is and are now being demonised for doing their job. There haven't been pundits who've eagerly sniped at him with unfair criticism - if there had been he'd have reason for such an outburst, but there haven't been such critics. I don't know of any who've been anything other than subdued and reluctant is simply acknowledging bad performances, bad resuts and bad decisions. If you're a manager, that will hurt, but the truth hurts. You have to block it ut or learn from it. What you don't do is highlight it and denounce it - first, because it's unfair to do so, and second, because it provokes a fight you'll only lose.

That's fair enough, the only criticism I could see him lashing out at is the stuff that's gone round this week from a minority who want to make it known they want Klopp. I didn't see it as a retaliation against the media. He said himself it's a minority, so I don't see him singling out the fans. People read it how they want to read it. We've already seen two interpretations on this page - he's arrogant and alienating himself by dissing the fans (even though he said it's a minority), or it's an attempt at a siege mentality that's backfired. I really don't know, I think he's well within his rights to hit back at idiotic fans or idiotic media coverage (Barrett has completely tied himself in knots with his criticism), he's also acknowledged that we haven't been good enough but he's tried to say that it will take time and it will come. I think he's just trying to add some perspective by pointing out the starts that other teams have had, maybe it is only to give himself breathing space, but I'd rather see him show some fight than complete resignation to his fate.

 

[peterhague]

Ings looks like he'll be a great little signing. Unfortunately it just highlights all the more the utter folly of spending so much on Benteke.

 

[the count]

Ings looks like he'll be a great little signing. Unfortunately it just highlights all the more the utter folly of spending so much on Benteke.

He will probably end up being an impact sub for when we are chasing a game and decide to go long ball or else protecting a lead and need an outlet when hoofing it out of defense

 

[mark1975]

Ings looks like he'll be a great little signing. Unfortunately it just highlights all the more the utter folly of spending so much on Benteke.

I like Benteke, but I was saying this yesterday. The fight that we wanted upfront is pretty much there with Ings, only he brings much more to the table in terms of movement etc.

 

[dmishra]

Our attacking three should be this:

-----Ings/Firmino----Sturridge/Benteke
-----------------Coutinho

I've been saying this since pre-season. Two up front makes best use of the numbers we have in attack.

But the two must be the right combination - at least one should be loads of work off the ball. It's why Benteke and Sturridge shouldn't play together IMO.

And Benteke as the pivot should be avoided forever. That's a formation guaranteed to fail. He isn't good as a pivot, and our AMs don't have the pace or goal getting ability to be effective wing-forwards.

 

[peterhague]

The plan should always have been around Sturridge, who last season aside, we can still reasonably expect 25 odd games a season from. He's by far our best attacker. For me as soon as you invest so much in Benteke you simultaneously write Sturridge off a bit.

 

[dmishra]

I think we definitely needed to invest heavily in a new striker. Planning around Sturridge would have been foolish give his injury history.

Agreed of course that Benteke was not the right target, but he's here now.

I think if we could use Benteke correctly, that mistake will not be one we'll regret terribly.

The key is to use him as a face-the-goal forward - an alternative to Sturridge basically.

 

[peterhague]

I think we definitely needed to invest heavily in a new striker. Planning around Sturridge would have been foolish give his injury history.

Agreed of course that Benteke was not the right target, but he's here now.

I think if we could use Benteke correctly, that mistake will not be one we'll regret terribly.

The key is to use him as a face-the-goal forward - an alternative to Sturridge basically.

Planning around him is not the same as planning to rely on him.

The solution, as I said repeatedly in the summer, should have been an attack that works well with him and without him, with quite loosely defined roles filled by versatile players - guys like Depay and Martial at Utd.

It's actually repeated mistakes of this nature - suggestive of a TOTAL lack of planning - that have most soured me on Rodgers.