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Post-match pondering

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[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=42125.msg1187786#msg1187786 date=1286145148]
If Rafa had left him with a decent squad there wouldn't be this much of a problem.
[/quote]

Bollocks. THe bulk of the squad that was left was good enough to finish 2nd in the League 2 season's ago.

The problem is , not only is Hodgson repeating the failings of Benitez, he's magnifying them

The defense is all over the place because Hodgson has decided to change the system. Skrtel is all over the place at the minute. He's fucking up the midfield by playing slow, uninspiring central midfielders that aren't renouned for their passing ability and then compounding it by filling the wide areas by other central midfielders who avoid the touchline like it's the plague, constantly come inside and make us so narrow ist unbelievable. Added to that, our midfield ineptitude leaves an off-form Torres increasingly stranded, making our tactics look like "keep it tight lads and wait until Torres either wins a free Kick / Penalty or does something magical on his own".

I feel sorry for Johnson. The poor bastard is practically the only one giving us any width, he's practically patrolling the right side by himself doing all the attacking and defending.

We started against Blackpool with Cole on left, Kuyt in the centre & Meriles on the right, Torres in front & Gerrard & Poulsen behind. Poulsen aside (who's just not up to the pace of the League yet - and may never be), the attacking 3 are all playing out of their best position.

It's absolutely no suprise that we improved as a team when we took Poulsen off and moved Meriles back in to the centre alongside Gerrard and reshffled the atacking 3 to have Jovanovic on the left, Cole in the centre & Kuyt on the right.

Gerrard & Meriles will work, certainly in the league. They need to be our central pairing. End of. Hodgson can always bring on Lucas or Pulsen if he fancies loosing games.

Cole should not be played on the left. Someone made the point that he should be, because that's were he plays for England. There's a reason he's been consistently shite for England and can't hold down a regular starting position. He won't off you any sort of width and with no decent full back to overlap and least give you that option it's a big problem. In the centre, off the striker, in the hole - that's were he will be most productive.

Kuyt we know all about. On the right, he will at leaqst stay out there and offer some width. He works well with Johnson and it's no suprise either, that Johnson's best displays have generally come when Kuyt's workrate helps cover the defensive duties. We also know that Kuyt can play on the left - he does so for Holland - and is effective there, moreso than he is in the centre where there is less space and he get's caught out more with his variable first touch.

Ultimately the left is a big problem. If Kuyt goes out there then we'd be looking at the hopelessly out of form Maxi on the right. Alternatives on the left are Jovanovic & Babel. Jovanovic might be worth sticking with because he is a left sided player & his work rate might be what's required to help get us through this period. However his final ball if pretty horrendous at the moment. Babel we know all about adn if ever there was a time for him to prove he can do it - it's now. Instead we'll see him come off the bench form time to time, show some pace and thenreturn to form and start running into full backs and bouncing off like some human dodgem car.

It also seems that Hodgson has a Plan B for when things aren't quite going to plan - unfortunately it seems to be stick The Greek upfront and hump the ball long to him. It really hurts that we had to resort to that sort of thing to get a point out of playing Blackpool at home.

Let's hope Torres' injury isn't too bad as well.
 
i'd say the £20-30m of transfer funding we could reasonably have expected to be provided with over the last couple of years would have given the squad rafa left a much, much, healthier look had roy been able to spend it in the summer.

we've been selling players without replacing them for a while now, and it's no magical coincidence that over the same period our squad's declined.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=42125.msg1187835#msg1187835 date=1286147404]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42125.msg1187826#msg1187826 date=1286147064]
There is no need for slitting the wrist just yet...

This should not have happened, and we should look to turn things around immediately. If that means sacking the manager after 7 league games, so be it. We can't have players losing heart. I'm certain if things (not jus the results) continue in the same way, that is exactly what will happen and we will be left with a massive shp wreck to deal with.

On the plus side, it can't get any worse than this.
[/quote]

You haven't read the latest on the club refinancing thread yet obviously.
[/quote]

*goes to said thread....
 
If the owners had not crippled the club and had enabled us to spend our (historical) 20 to 30m per year we would undoubtably be in a better state than we are.
If Rafa hadnt wasted a lot of the money we didnt have on the likes of Keane, Dossena, Aquilani, Lucas etc we'd undoubtably be in a better situation.
If Hodgson wasnt the anti-midas he is and hadnt replaced shit with shit we'd be in a much better state.
If top players like Torres, Johnson, Reina, Carragher, Cole etc werent playing like fucking endsleigh cunts we'd be far better off than we are.
Ultimately all those things combined have left us here. With a squad off either off form or not good enough players. A demotivated club, worth about 7th to 10th place but looking like it will limp home 10th to 15th.

Blaming one facet is pointless. They've all fucking ruined this not just Rafa, Hicks, Hodgson.....all of them. Cunts.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187854#msg1187854 date=1286149545]
If the owners had not crippled the club and had enabled us to spend our (historical) 20 to 30m per year we would undoubtably be in a better state than we are.
If Rafa hadnt wasted a lot of the money we didnt have on the likes of Keane, Dossena, Aquilani, Lucas etc we'd undoubtably be in a better situation.
If Hodgson wasnt the anti-midas he is and hadnt replaced shit with shit we'd be in a much better state.
If top players like Torres, Johnson, Reina, Carragher, Cole etc werent playing like fucking endsleigh cunts we'd be far better off than we are.
Ultimately all those things combined have left us here. With a squad off either off form or not good enough players. A demotivated club, worth about 7th to 10th place but looking like it will limp home 10th to 15th.

Blaming one facet is pointless. They've all fucking ruined this not just Rafa, Hicks, Hodgson.....all of them. Cunts.
[/quote]

yep, they all get a share of the blame.
 
Blaming Benitez is rather silly, but the fact that Hodgson is shit doesn't suddenly mean Benitez is great either.

Sacking that failure was sound, replacing him with Hodgson was not.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42125.msg1187861#msg1187861 date=1286149900]
Blaming Benitez is rather silly, but the fact that Hodgson is shit doesn't suddenly mean Benitez is great either.

Sacking that failure was sound, replacing him with Hodgson was not.
[/quote]

Quite. as Oncey mentioned at some point, they're all cunts.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42125.msg1187861#msg1187861 date=1286149900]
Blaming Benitez is rather silly, but the fact that Hodgson is shit doesn't suddenly mean Benitez is great either.

Sacking that failure was sound, replacing him with Hodgson was not.
[/quote]

He had a bad last season, but he was certainly not a failure. One bad season, that's a blip. Hodgson wasted the Aquilani money, he sent him to Italy when he finally got fit and brought in Poulsen. Anyone still think Joe Cole is better than Yossi then?
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=42125.msg1187864#msg1187864 date=1286150286]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42125.msg1187861#msg1187861 date=1286149900]
Blaming Benitez is rather silly, but the fact that Hodgson is shit doesn't suddenly mean Benitez is great either.

Sacking that failure was sound, replacing him with Hodgson was not.
[/quote]

He had a bad last season, but he was certainly not a failure. One bad season, that's a blip. Hodgson wasted the Aquilani money, he sent him to Italy when he finally got fit and brought in Poulsen. Anyone still think Joe Cole is better than Yossi then?
[/quote]I agree totally about Aquilani. As devoid as we are of creativity to allow a 20m playmaker to walk out for free a week before the season started and replace him with a fucking useless slow thug is tantamount to fucking treason.
 
Kopking is, and always has been, fucking irritating. Popping up *now* for the first time in months, simply to crow is the work of a nmassive cunt.

But let's not pretend *the entire site* were so desperate to get rid of Benitez than any old cunt would have been better.

When it became clear that Budgie was going to replace Benitez, well over half of this place voted that if the other options were MacLeish, or Budgie, they'd prefer to keep Benitez.


Yes, there were quite a few 'Anyone But Rafa' clowns - who oddly then became part of the 'Leave Roy Alone! Brigade' but that was out of embarrassment and desperation, as much as anything else.

And also, let's not kid ourtselves with smug, retrospective bollocks about poor old Benitez; great manager, won us trophies, came second, but his performance last season was bordering on the insane, and he deserved the sack.
 
I don't think he had earned any more time personally. He had long enough and had to go.

Bringing in Hodgson looks to be a huge error. Sacking Benitez was not.
 
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1187955#msg1187955 date=1286178774]
deserved the sack, maybe, but had EARNED another season and how I wish he had been given it.
[/quote]


agreed. just like ged had earned his 'extra' season, although obviously that also highlights the problem of doing the decent thing by someone. there's also the practical point that brendan raises that we were in no position to attract a proper replacement and so should hae held fire anyway.
 
Or the fact that we have spent 2 years on the search for another striker. Yesterday was the perfect example of how dependent we are on Torres.

It just baffles me that we haven't been able to sign anyone at all.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=42125.msg1187819#msg1187819 date=1286146638]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42125.msg1187812#msg1187812 date=1286146520]
Why are people blaming Rafa now when "it couldn't get any worse" under Roy and we were going to challenge for 4th again, etc?
[/quote]

'Cos they're divvies.
[/quote]

I'm sure Nobking has been chomping at the bit for 2 months just waiting for HOdgson to fuck things up so he could come in and proclaim his champion once again.

This would be SO much easier :
www.intermilan.com
 
And to cheer us up even more, this has been our worst start in 57 years!!!

That season we got relegated..
 
When your team totally loses belief in itself and in its own purpose bad things happen, really bad things, unacceptable things. Blaming rafa Blaming Roy blaming the players.... what fucking difference does it make really? Until those players believe we can move forward and play like it matters we are completely lost even if we go out and win we're still lost. The saddest thing for me was yesterday I knew beforehand that we would lose, it wasn't an upset at all we have been playing unmitigated shite for over a year and the "why's" really doesnt matter now. Too much greed, too many liars, too many shirkers, not enough hunger or desire and absolutely no belief. The damage has been as grave as it was quick and i do not see it being reversed. This is the worst i have ever seen our club in 30 years supporting.

I would just like to salute the fans yesterday at the ground who managed to applaud Blackpool at the end, it is nice to see that some of the Kops traditions are upheld, its what separates us from many other clubs where such sporting gestures are not upheld.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1188034#msg1188034 date=1286185803]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
[/quote]Its alright. Im still right. Still no goals or assists or trophies for Xabi at Madrid, even when surrounded by Ronaldo, Higauin, Van Der Vaart, Raul, Benzema etc.
 
I miss Rafa but that's not me saying we wouldn't have been in more or less the same situation had he lingered on.

The problem obviously sticks deeper than to whom is sitting in the manager seat.

We registered a positive NET SPEND on transfers during Rafa's past 1½ half year at the helm. Ever since we more or less recouped the Keane money we've earned more on transfer than what we've spend if I'm not mistaken. And this very defeatist way of running a football club of our stature and current position is severely damning and if not apparent the first year then certainly over the next ones - unless of course you've got Gerrard Mach II and a few other major talents running around at Reserve-level ready to take the leap. Which sadly we don't. At least not yet.

Roy's been forced to sell want-away Masher and Benayoun and a few more with Aquilani going back to Italy on loan as well and we have yet again spend less than what we've sold. One step forward two step backwards once again.

This is never really going to get us anywhere but the land of obscurity. Untill it's fixed and we can once again SPEND money on players instead of making them we're not going to see great improvements.

All we can hope for is that the current owners who isn't doing the club any favours will soon be gone and that we're going to see new owners introduced with a masterplan, a new manager and sporting director and a whole heap of investment-ready money.

Here's hoping anyways.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188037#msg1188037 date=1286186014]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1188034#msg1188034 date=1286185803]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
[/quote]Its alright. Im still right. Still no goals or assists or trophies for Xabi at Madrid, even when surrounded by Ronaldo, Higauin, Van Der Vaart, Raul, Benzema etc.

[/quote]

That's harsh Oncy. Madrid recorded a record point haul last season but just fell short to an amazing Barca team who pipped them at the post. Alonso went on to feature heavily in a Spainish world cup win and now back as the heartbeat of a Madrid side managaed by Mourinho. I doubt his lack of goals and assists is keeping him up at night.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=42125.msg1188063#msg1188063 date=1286188120]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188037#msg1188037 date=1286186014]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1188034#msg1188034 date=1286185803]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
[/quote]Its alright. Im still right. Still no goals or assists or trophies for Xabi at Madrid, even when surrounded by Ronaldo, Higauin, Van Der Vaart, Raul, Benzema etc.

[/quote]

That's harsh Oncy. Madrid recorded a record point haul last season but just fell short to an amazing Barca team who pipped them at the post. Alonso went on to feature heavily in a Spainish world cup win and now back as the heartbeat of a Madrid side managaed by Mourinho. I doubt his lack of goals and assists is keeping him up at night.

[/quote]My point then as it is now is that he doesnt score goals or get assists. He doesnt.
Im not doing this again though, so whatevs.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188066#msg1188066 date=1286188324]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=42125.msg1188063#msg1188063 date=1286188120]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188037#msg1188037 date=1286186014]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1188034#msg1188034 date=1286185803]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
[/quote]Its alright. Im still right. Still no goals or assists or trophies for Xabi at Madrid, even when surrounded by Ronaldo, Higauin, Van Der Vaart, Raul, Benzema etc.

[/quote]

That's harsh Oncy. Madrid recorded a record point haul last season but just fell short to an amazing Barca team who pipped them at the post. Alonso went on to feature heavily in a Spainish world cup win and now back as the heartbeat of a Madrid side managaed by Mourinho. I doubt his lack of goals and assists is keeping him up at night.

[/quote]My point then as it is now is that he doesnt score goals or get assists. He doesnt.
Im not doing this again though, so whatevs.

[/quote]

Yeah I don't want to get into it either but his lack of goals/assists isn't really that much of a factor when you add up what Alonso brings to the table.

Laters dude.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=42125.msg1188070#msg1188070 date=1286188426]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188066#msg1188066 date=1286188324]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=42125.msg1188063#msg1188063 date=1286188120]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1188037#msg1188037 date=1286186014]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42125.msg1188034#msg1188034 date=1286185803]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42125.msg1187965#msg1187965 date=1286179615]
Yup its like replacing Alonso with Aquilani. The problem isnt that Alonso is irreplaceable its that wefucked it up so bad.
[/quote]

but oncy, all he can do is pass...




only messing oncy 😉
[/quote]Its alright. Im still right. Still no goals or assists or trophies for Xabi at Madrid, even when surrounded by Ronaldo, Higauin, Van Der Vaart, Raul, Benzema etc.

[/quote]

That's harsh Oncy. Madrid recorded a record point haul last season but just fell short to an amazing Barca team who pipped them at the post. Alonso went on to feature heavily in a Spainish world cup win and now back as the heartbeat of a Madrid side managaed by Mourinho. I doubt his lack of goals and assists is keeping him up at night.

[/quote]My point then as it is now is that he doesnt score goals or get assists. He doesnt.
Im not doing this again though, so whatevs.

[/quote]

Yeah I don't want to get into it either but his lack of goals/assists isn't really that much of a factor when you add up what Alonso brings to the table.

Laters dude.
[/quote]

I would prefer him to any of our current midfielders except Gerrard, in fact i turned to a Man U mate of mine on sunday who was gloating and asking what was going on at the 'Pool etc and i said it was difficult to pi`npoint exactly but maybe we needed a really decent defensive midfielder a la Mascherano and perhaps a player who can just sit in the middle and just pass it around a bit... a player like say Alonso.... i think he was happy enough with that as an answer.
 
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