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[quote author=Anita link=topic=35297.msg927955#msg927955 date=1250697242]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927949#msg927949 date=1250696930]
So he didnt say he knew he would leave then?
C'mon Anita, thats tabloid stuff you're trying to pull there. If you think he misspent thats fine, you have a decent case, but dont twist the mans words to make him look a buffoon.
[/quote]
I'm not gonna have this conversation with you again. 'Wanted to leave' is clearly the one you, Rafa and every other poster on this forum wants to go with , fine. Whatever, it's irrelevent here anyway. Rafa said, we knew the player wanted to leave/was going to leave in April, therefore we had to start making other arrangements. If he was so desperate for Barry, why not put a principal deal in place then? Rafa pissed away money on players he shouldn't have and now he's short again, and so he's whining.
I hate that this is all making me sound anti-Rafa when I'm not. But I'm just not as rose-tinted as some on here to believe that 'Poor Rafa, who loves the fans, never goes anything wrong', the reality is he's as manipulative as the Americans when it comes to dealing with the media and playing the fans. And he's made some terrible judgements when it comes to players he's kept and sold.
[/quote]I think we all know he's manipulative Neets. And you wont get a single poster to say he hasnt misspent money, christ its been a revolving door in here since he arrived. But you are twisting his words and choosing which agenda you believe (re-barry) to fit your argument.
I dont think thats fair and i think you are better than that.
Arbeloa wanted to leave so we needed a rb.
Alonso wanted to leave but he tried to talk him out of it all summer as evidenced with his 'I told him to look at the fans' stuff in Asia. Once he made it clear he wasnt for turning Rafa went out and got a replacement very very quickly.
Barry by that time had signed for Manchester City.
He hasnt spent a penny wrong this summer, and the reason most are up in arms is that he was told (apparantly) he would get X and has now had to make do with Y.
Anyway i'll leave it there, i know what you are like when you get your teeth into an idea regardless of the evidence.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927949#msg927949 date=1250696930]
So he didnt say he knew he would leave then?
C'mon Anita, thats tabloid stuff you're trying to pull there. If you think he misspent thats fine, you have a decent case, but dont twist the mans words to make him look a buffoon.
[/quote]
I'm not gonna have this conversation with you again. 'Wanted to leave' is clearly the one you, Rafa and every other poster on this forum wants to go with , fine. Whatever, it's irrelevent here anyway. Rafa said, we knew the player wanted to leave/was going to leave in April, therefore we had to start making other arrangements. If he was so desperate for Barry, why not put a principal deal in place then? Rafa pissed away money on players he shouldn't have and now he's short again, and so he's whining.
I hate that this is all making me sound anti-Rafa when I'm not. But I'm just not as rose-tinted as some on here to believe that 'Poor Rafa, who loves the fans, never goes anything wrong', the reality is he's as manipulative as the Americans when it comes to dealing with the media and playing the fans. And he's made some terrible judgements when it comes to players he's kept and sold.
[/quote]I think we all know he's manipulative Neets. And you wont get a single poster to say he hasnt misspent money, christ its been a revolving door in here since he arrived. But you are twisting his words and choosing which agenda you believe (re-barry) to fit your argument.
I dont think thats fair and i think you are better than that.
Arbeloa wanted to leave so we needed a rb.
Alonso wanted to leave but he tried to talk him out of it all summer as evidenced with his 'I told him to look at the fans' stuff in Asia. Once he made it clear he wasnt for turning Rafa went out and got a replacement very very quickly.
Barry by that time had signed for Manchester City.
He hasnt spent a penny wrong this summer, and the reason most are up in arms is that he was told (apparantly) he would get X and has now had to make do with Y.
Anyway i'll leave it there, i know what you are like when you get your teeth into an idea regardless of the evidence.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35297.msg927954#msg927954 date=1250697199]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35297.msg927944#msg927944 date=1250696797]
How do you know that?
How do you know over what period of time the money was due back?
Was it due in installments?
[/quote]
Cos we had it listed as an asset in the accounts.
7m + giving up the rights to 10m = 17m.
There's no two fucking ways about it.
[/quote]
That is not the point I am making to you Rosco.
You intimated that you thought the 10 million outstanding was part of this summers transfer budget. The initial rebutal I made about Anita's post was that 17 million of this summers budget was not spent on Johnson.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35297.msg927944#msg927944 date=1250696797]
How do you know that?
How do you know over what period of time the money was due back?
Was it due in installments?
[/quote]
Cos we had it listed as an asset in the accounts.
7m + giving up the rights to 10m = 17m.
There's no two fucking ways about it.
[/quote]
That is not the point I am making to you Rosco.
You intimated that you thought the 10 million outstanding was part of this summers transfer budget. The initial rebutal I made about Anita's post was that 17 million of this summers budget was not spent on Johnson.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35297.msg927958#msg927958 date=1250697291]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35297.msg927950#msg927950 date=1250696955]
Oh for the love of god, can we stop with this 'the installment means he only cost £x' please?! It's money that has already allocated and therefore will still come out of the LFC budget somewhere.
Johnson cost £17million. Get over it.
[/quote]
You're getting worked up here Anita.
Sure the money was owed, but don't know how much was owed and when it was due.
So for that reason, it can be discussed & speculated on in the same everything else that we don't know the full details about is.
You think that we would accept to take 1 million up front for Crouch and then get Pompy to agree that 10 million was due the following summer? That, in my opinion, is very unlikely.
[/quote]
So how much are you saying the deal was for ?
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35297.msg927950#msg927950 date=1250696955]
Oh for the love of god, can we stop with this 'the installment means he only cost £x' please?! It's money that has already allocated and therefore will still come out of the LFC budget somewhere.
Johnson cost £17million. Get over it.
[/quote]
You're getting worked up here Anita.
Sure the money was owed, but don't know how much was owed and when it was due.
So for that reason, it can be discussed & speculated on in the same everything else that we don't know the full details about is.
You think that we would accept to take 1 million up front for Crouch and then get Pompy to agree that 10 million was due the following summer? That, in my opinion, is very unlikely.
[/quote]
So how much are you saying the deal was for ?
Rafa has bought some crap,no question.
I think you're being a bit hard on him with regards Alonso tho; he may have known he wanted to go, but that doesnt mean he'd definitely leave.You've yourself admitted that keeping Alono was the first priority.
[/quote]
Rafa *said* that trying to keep Alonso was the first priority. Which I don't buy for a second, I think Rafa's priority was get get as much money as possible for him.
[/quote]
Thats possible, but I'd suggest that if that were truly the case we'd have seen the Alonso/Aquilani transaction to have more closely resembled the Arbeloa/Johnson transaction ie a done deal and MUCH faster.
As it was, Rafa's taken a huge risk on Aquilani; to have so quickly paid a premium for a good, but crocked player smacks of desperation to me.
I doubt he'd have done that if he really thought Alonso was off in April and it was just about the size of the transfer fee.
I think you're being a bit hard on him with regards Alonso tho; he may have known he wanted to go, but that doesnt mean he'd definitely leave.You've yourself admitted that keeping Alono was the first priority.
[/quote]
Rafa *said* that trying to keep Alonso was the first priority. Which I don't buy for a second, I think Rafa's priority was get get as much money as possible for him.
[/quote]
Thats possible, but I'd suggest that if that were truly the case we'd have seen the Alonso/Aquilani transaction to have more closely resembled the Arbeloa/Johnson transaction ie a done deal and MUCH faster.
As it was, Rafa's taken a huge risk on Aquilani; to have so quickly paid a premium for a good, but crocked player smacks of desperation to me.
I doubt he'd have done that if he really thought Alonso was off in April and it was just about the size of the transfer fee.
S
Squiggles
Guest
The Johnson debate is so bloody irritating.
We've 'only' had to shell out £9M for him this summer, which was advantageous to a point, but as Ross says, the transfer budget would have been written with this debt in mind
We either paid £17M for Johnson, or we paid £9M and let Crouch leave for free.
Whatever works for you.
We've 'only' had to shell out £9M for him this summer, which was advantageous to a point, but as Ross says, the transfer budget would have been written with this debt in mind
We either paid £17M for Johnson, or we paid £9M and let Crouch leave for free.
Whatever works for you.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35297.msg927958#msg927958 date=1250697291]
You're getting worked up here Anita.
Sure the money was owed, but don't know how much was owed and when it was due.
So for that reason, it can be discussed & speculated on in the same everything else that we don't know the full details about is.
[/quote]
We've already been through this and it's exactly for that reason that we have to treat it as 17M otherwise you'd have to say that Aquilani didn't cost 20M, but 5M because that's all we paid for him right now. And because we don't know the ins and outs for every player, it just becomes ridiculous.
The total figure is reflected in the accounts whether the amount is paid in full or in installments. If a transfer includes a writeoff of existing debt, that is most certainly factored in.
There is no speculation or discussion to be had. The fee we agreed for Glen Johnson with Pompey was ~17M and whether or not we only paid a certain amount up front with the rest to follow in installments and / or included a writeoff of debt is immaterial to the bottom line.
You're getting worked up here Anita.
Sure the money was owed, but don't know how much was owed and when it was due.
So for that reason, it can be discussed & speculated on in the same everything else that we don't know the full details about is.
[/quote]
We've already been through this and it's exactly for that reason that we have to treat it as 17M otherwise you'd have to say that Aquilani didn't cost 20M, but 5M because that's all we paid for him right now. And because we don't know the ins and outs for every player, it just becomes ridiculous.
The total figure is reflected in the accounts whether the amount is paid in full or in installments. If a transfer includes a writeoff of existing debt, that is most certainly factored in.
There is no speculation or discussion to be had. The fee we agreed for Glen Johnson with Pompey was ~17M and whether or not we only paid a certain amount up front with the rest to follow in installments and / or included a writeoff of debt is immaterial to the bottom line.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927965#msg927965 date=1250697530]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35297.msg927955#msg927955 date=1250697242]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927949#msg927949 date=1250696930]
So he didnt say he knew he would leave then?
C'mon Anita, thats tabloid stuff you're trying to pull there. If you think he misspent thats fine, you have a decent case, but dont twist the mans words to make him look a buffoon.
[/quote]
I'm not gonna have this conversation with you again. 'Wanted to leave' is clearly the one you, Rafa and every other poster on this forum wants to go with , fine. Whatever, it's irrelevent here anyway. Rafa said, we knew the player wanted to leave/was going to leave in April, therefore we had to start making other arrangements. If he was so desperate for Barry, why not put a principal deal in place then? Rafa pissed away money on players he shouldn't have and now he's short again, and so he's whining.
I hate that this is all making me sound anti-Rafa when I'm not. But I'm just not as rose-tinted as some on here to believe that 'Poor Rafa, who loves the fans, never goes anything wrong', the reality is he's as manipulative as the Americans when it comes to dealing with the media and playing the fans. And he's made some terrible judgements when it comes to players he's kept and sold.
[/quote]I think we all know he's manipulative Neets. And you wont get a single poster to say he hasnt misspent money, christ its been a revolving door in here since he arrived. But you are twisting his words and choosing which agenda you believe (re-barry) to fit your argument.
I dont think thats fair and i think you are better than that.
Arbeloa wanted to leave so we needed a rb.
Alonso wanted to leave but he tried to talk him out of it all summer as evidenced with his 'I told him to look at the fans' stuff in Asia. Once he made it clear he wasnt for turning Rafa went out and got a replacement very very quickly.
Barry by that time had signed for Manchester City.
He hasnt spent a penny wrong this summer, and the reason most are up in arms is that he was told (apparantly) he would get X and has now had to make do with Y.
Anyway i'll leave it there, i know what you are like when you get your teeth into an idea regardless of the evidence.
[/quote]
I resent the last statement, as it's unfair. And I go back to say Rafa's made loads of bad decisions about players he's let go (and not just Alonso), I'd go back to players like Pongelle and Cisse, more recently Hyypia and Finnan, we'll leave Arbeoloa as it seems generally accpeted by most that he wanted to go. But the sales of players, who are generally good squad players, but because they rarely feature in the team, they fetch next to no money in the transfer market. Which means we have very little to gain by selling them. But then left in situations like we are now, when we're short in too many areas of the pitch.
Even RB where he's just spent £17 million, (I don't care how it's broken down, I'll leave that one to Ross to argue out), if Johnson's injured, who have we got to come in?
We're short because Rafa's mispent money and made bad decisions with players he's released. Simples.
How could Rafa be so in the dark about the financial situation when for the past three seasons all we've heard is how broke we are. Rafa himself has gone on record so many times talking about how we don't have the money to compete with the other big teams.
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35297.msg927955#msg927955 date=1250697242]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927949#msg927949 date=1250696930]
So he didnt say he knew he would leave then?
C'mon Anita, thats tabloid stuff you're trying to pull there. If you think he misspent thats fine, you have a decent case, but dont twist the mans words to make him look a buffoon.
[/quote]
I'm not gonna have this conversation with you again. 'Wanted to leave' is clearly the one you, Rafa and every other poster on this forum wants to go with , fine. Whatever, it's irrelevent here anyway. Rafa said, we knew the player wanted to leave/was going to leave in April, therefore we had to start making other arrangements. If he was so desperate for Barry, why not put a principal deal in place then? Rafa pissed away money on players he shouldn't have and now he's short again, and so he's whining.
I hate that this is all making me sound anti-Rafa when I'm not. But I'm just not as rose-tinted as some on here to believe that 'Poor Rafa, who loves the fans, never goes anything wrong', the reality is he's as manipulative as the Americans when it comes to dealing with the media and playing the fans. And he's made some terrible judgements when it comes to players he's kept and sold.
[/quote]I think we all know he's manipulative Neets. And you wont get a single poster to say he hasnt misspent money, christ its been a revolving door in here since he arrived. But you are twisting his words and choosing which agenda you believe (re-barry) to fit your argument.
I dont think thats fair and i think you are better than that.
Arbeloa wanted to leave so we needed a rb.
Alonso wanted to leave but he tried to talk him out of it all summer as evidenced with his 'I told him to look at the fans' stuff in Asia. Once he made it clear he wasnt for turning Rafa went out and got a replacement very very quickly.
Barry by that time had signed for Manchester City.
He hasnt spent a penny wrong this summer, and the reason most are up in arms is that he was told (apparantly) he would get X and has now had to make do with Y.
Anyway i'll leave it there, i know what you are like when you get your teeth into an idea regardless of the evidence.
[/quote]
I resent the last statement, as it's unfair. And I go back to say Rafa's made loads of bad decisions about players he's let go (and not just Alonso), I'd go back to players like Pongelle and Cisse, more recently Hyypia and Finnan, we'll leave Arbeoloa as it seems generally accpeted by most that he wanted to go. But the sales of players, who are generally good squad players, but because they rarely feature in the team, they fetch next to no money in the transfer market. Which means we have very little to gain by selling them. But then left in situations like we are now, when we're short in too many areas of the pitch.
Even RB where he's just spent £17 million, (I don't care how it's broken down, I'll leave that one to Ross to argue out), if Johnson's injured, who have we got to come in?
We're short because Rafa's mispent money and made bad decisions with players he's released. Simples.
How could Rafa be so in the dark about the financial situation when for the past three seasons all we've heard is how broke we are. Rafa himself has gone on record so many times talking about how we don't have the money to compete with the other big teams.
This thing is not remotely "simples", Anita, and I'm afraid your saying it is illustrates that Oncy's accusation is more justified than you care to admit. In your headlong rush to scapegoat Rafa you charge, with great determination, past more than one important complicating factor.
Rafa's made mistakes in the transfer market. So, in case you hadn't noticed, has every manager at one time or another. We've certainly all heard a lot in the media about the club's and the owners' respective financial situations but neither you, nor I, nor any other fan has heard what the owners themselves told and promised Rafa to his face during those three seasons to which you refer. You're too intelligent to seriously imagine that there's nothing to this whole thing beyond what the media have reported.
Rafa's made mistakes in the transfer market. So, in case you hadn't noticed, has every manager at one time or another. We've certainly all heard a lot in the media about the club's and the owners' respective financial situations but neither you, nor I, nor any other fan has heard what the owners themselves told and promised Rafa to his face during those three seasons to which you refer. You're too intelligent to seriously imagine that there's nothing to this whole thing beyond what the media have reported.
Youre right, it was unfair. I apologise.
I agree rafa has misspent. I also agree hes sold players he neednt, ive argued that against him for years, all the way back to murphy.
I agree Johnson is expensive. I agree with all of that.
I do not agree that he KNEW alonso was going. I do not agree that he let barry go. I do not agree that his past spending has resulted in us having no money to spend.
He was told 20m plus sales. They lied. That isnt his fault.
I agree rafa has misspent. I also agree hes sold players he neednt, ive argued that against him for years, all the way back to murphy.
I agree Johnson is expensive. I agree with all of that.
I do not agree that he KNEW alonso was going. I do not agree that he let barry go. I do not agree that his past spending has resulted in us having no money to spend.
He was told 20m plus sales. They lied. That isnt his fault.
If it turns out that he was promised money and they've now gone back on it, I agree Rafa's completely justified in being upset. I'm not disputing that, I was only disputing the fact that the reason we have so many positions to cover is due to Rafa's decisions.
If he spent that £17million with a promise of another £20million, that's fair enough. And he's entitled to be upset.
I just hate the way they start publically finger pointing, and I hate that we have do deal with 'Rafa walking out' to make his point to the owners all the time. It's cost us on the pitch before and will probably do so again, so it obviously unsettles everyone.
If he spent that £17million with a promise of another £20million, that's fair enough. And he's entitled to be upset.
I just hate the way they start publically finger pointing, and I hate that we have do deal with 'Rafa walking out' to make his point to the owners all the time. It's cost us on the pitch before and will probably do so again, so it obviously unsettles everyone.
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