Oh oh!

[grjt]

The owners are quite clearly total fuckers - theyre having money problems, are clearly jockeying to sell the club within the next 12mths, and see no point in investing their (not so hard earned) cash in the club when theyre contemplating bailing out.

All that said - we still have 57 players on professional contracts at the club - 57. And outside of our top 15-18 players there's not even a hint that anyone else is any good (in premiership terms) whatsoever.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35297.msg926948#msg926948 date=1250584460]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35297.msg926935#msg926935 date=1250583125]
Truth, a tactical line from Liverpool or tabloid bollocks? We really don't know, but we might have our own suspicions, dependant on what we want to believe.
I wonder if we are after one, or more, of the surplus Real Madrid players, and saying this to strengthen our hand for a loan rather than be forced to buy.
The real truth is we could do without all this speculation and shite again at the start of the season, it's hard enough being a fan at the best of times.
If the article is correct, and I am not the greatest of Benitez fans, that it is true, but I think it is fair to say he needs to be backed on this occasion, at the moment he is £4m in profit, and that does not take into account the return on Keane, or what he might have expected for his annual "pot".
I am not sure about the need for another centre back. As it is , when Agger is fit, we are going to have him or Skrtle on the bench looking glum. We really do need some more fire power up front.
This window promised so much, and it needed to if we were to step up and seems to have delivered little, we have a full back that is possibly a better option that the one we had (although when we spent £17m on a right back it looked like he had money to burn), and a midfielder who is possibly not as good as the one we had to let go. A window where our fiercest rivals actually looked weakened. There are some days left, I hope we have not have missed a trick on this one, but more than this I hope the good ship Liverpool has a chipper skipper at the helm, and not a sullen , morose and scheming one.


regards


[/quote]

I agree. As soon as we sold Alonso every player agents wanted to link to us suddenly doubled in price. So I quite expected a 'we're broke' routine to follow. The whole centre back 'search' utterly bewilders me - apart from going for someone like Campbell on a short term deal, it makes no sense to spend much, if at all, on back-up for that position.
[/quote]

I don't know about this, it's one thing to say your funds are 'limited' it's another to have roughly the same figure quoted in a few of the tabloids.

People were saying last week that they felt a big signing was on the cards, I still think that was being overly optimistic, but I do still think Rafa will have his say, which could see a compromise of sorts.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35297.msg926948#msg926948 date=1250584460]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35297.msg926935#msg926935 date=1250583125]
Truth, a tactical line from Liverpool or tabloid bollocks? We really don't know, but we might have our own suspicions, dependant on what we want to believe.
I wonder if we are after one, or more, of the surplus Real Madrid players, and saying this to strengthen our hand for a loan rather than be forced to buy.
The real truth is we could do without all this speculation and shite again at the start of the season, it's hard enough being a fan at the best of times.
If the article is correct, and I am not the greatest of Benitez fans, that it is true, but I think it is fair to say he needs to be backed on this occasion, at the moment he is £4m in profit, and that does not take into account the return on Keane, or what he might have expected for his annual "pot".
I am not sure about the need for another centre back. As it is , when Agger is fit, we are going to have him or Skrtle on the bench looking glum. We really do need some more fire power up front.
This window promised so much, and it needed to if we were to step up and seems to have delivered little, we have a full back that is possibly a better option that the one we had (although when we spent £17m on a right back it looked like he had money to burn), and a midfielder who is possibly not as good as the one we had to let go. A window where our fiercest rivals actually looked weakened. There are some days left, I hope we have not have missed a trick on this one, but more than this I hope the good ship Liverpool has a chipper skipper at the helm, and not a sullen , morose and scheming one.


regards


[/quote]

I agree. As soon as we sold Alonso every player agents wanted to link to us suddenly doubled in price. So I quite expected a 'we're broke' routine to follow. The whole centre back 'search' utterly bewilders me - apart from going for someone like Campbell on a short term deal, it makes no sense to spend much, if at all, on back-up for that position.
[/quote]

I don't think 'back up' are the right words
skrtel is positionally suspect
agger is a perma crock
a class defender could easily force his way into the first team.

 

[rage]

i've never heard of including player payrises into a teams transfer budget before. only a matter of time before the fried breakfasts and cups of coffee are added too. fuck me, can you imagine what dossena would cost then? or how about degen as the treatment table is charged to the cost of the player as well.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=35297.msg926979#msg926979 date=1250587511]
If this is true I hope Riera isnt sold
[/quote]


Too right, useful option actually im hoping he'll give us a good season this time out.

As for our benevolent owners... what is there left to say really... If all of this is a smokescreen its a fucking good one. What a pair of cunts them yanks are, want to run it like a business do they? then pay your own loan fees you cunts.

 

[rage]

yea that's it. those cunts should have to pay for their tickets too. now that's business

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=rage link=topic=35297.msg927005#msg927005 date=1250588773]
yea that's it. those cunts should have to pay for their tickets too. now that's business
[/quote]

haha... make em fucking ring up like every other bugger without a season ticket!

When something looks like shit and smells like shit its probably shit, tbh I was more than suspicious early doors regading them pair as a result of my sunny trusting nature, but for gods sake we have our fucking owners charging the club a million quid in expenses.... I mean I ask you, its so bad its actually amusing.... I really hope Moores is enjoying that extra 8M we handed him from the loan we are paying.

Its a smokescreen of all smokescreens we will sign what we need, its a press crusade to bring us down .....etc etc ....It's GnH.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35297.msg926998#msg926998 date=1250588369]

I don't think 'back up' are the right words
skrtel is positionally suspect
agger is a perma crock
a class defender could easily force his way into the first team.
[/quote]

If that's the case then Agger shouldn't have been signed up on such a much-improved contract, and getting in a top class defender should have been a priority at the start of the summer. Suddenly chasing an over-priced player now doesn't make any sense.

 

[Richey]

I normally take any stories about transfer budgets with a huge pinch of salt to be honest. I figure if there is a problem then Benitez will be bleating in the press before long, and he has sounded quite positive this summer.

However, IF this is true then I could certainly see his point this time. Our squad is looking thin (on quality anyway) and it doesn't look like we have spent a great deal. The only question is whether not spending a lot is Benitez's choice or the owners' choice. However, one good thing about having a manager who can be a bit of a loudmouthed moaner when it suits him as that at least we will know if this has any truth to it or not.

Incidently, those of you who were slagging off David Moores. The only reason he sold up was because sections of the fans constantly complained about lack of money, even though he continually funded transfers and ground developments from his own pocket. Maybe the old fella wasn't quite as bad afterall huh?

 

[rage]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=35297.msg927033#msg927033 date=1250591789]
I normally take any stories about transfer budgets with a huge pinch of salt to be honest. I figure if there is a problem then Benitez will be bleating in the press before long, and he has sounded quite positive this summer.

However, IF this is true then I could certainly see his point this time. Our squad is looking thin (on quality anyway) and it doesn't look like we have spent a great deal. The only question is whether not spending a lot is Benitez's choice or the owners' choice. However, one good thing about having a manager who can be a bit of a loudmouthed moaner when it suits him as that at least we will know if this has any truth to it or not.

Incidently, those of you who were slagging off David Moores. The only reason he sold up was because sections of the fans constantly complained about lack of money, even though he continually funded transfers and ground developments from his own pocket. Maybe the old fella wasn't quite as bad afterall huh?
[/quote]

in the end he sold up for more money and he'll take that mistake to his grave with him because he's seen what these owners are doing

 

[rage]

BENITEZ HAS JUST £2M TO SPEND - REPORTS
Posted 18/08/09 07:05
EmailPrintSave


Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has reportedly been left 'devastated' after being informed by the club's owners that he will be given just £2m - or less - to spend in the final weeks of the transfer window.

Concerned about the lack of options he has in defence, with Daniel Agger still troubled by his ongoing back problem and Martin Skrtel a doubt for tomorrow's clash with Stoke, Benitez is understood to be determined to acquire new defensive cover before the window closes.

However, according to The Times, he will have 'no more than £2 million' to spend, 'despite having recouped at least as much as he has spent in the transfer market this summer'.

The Daily Mirror claims that the exact amount at Benitez's disposal may be as little as £1.5m, although neither sum will probably be sufficient for the Spaniard to buy. The Liverpool boss will instead have to scour the bargain basement in the hope of landing a player either on a free transfer or on loan.

The Mirror says that, 'His first choice was Ryan Shawcross, but Stoke have laughed off the suggestion that they would let a defender important to them go out on loan for an entire Premier League season.

'He has also enquired about taking the Portsmouth defender Sylvain Distin on loan, but was again met with near incredulity by the South coast club.

'What will have angered Benitez most is that he was in a position to sign the Spain international winger David Silva from Valencia, but then had to pull out of the deal because he didn't have the money to meet the £17million asking price.'

Despite spending approximately £37m on Glen Johnson and Alberto Aquilani this summer, Benitez has more than recouped that amount through the sales of Xabi Alonso, Sebastian Leto, Alvaro Arbeloa, Paul Anderson and Jack Hobbs. He also offloaded Robbie Keane for £12m in February.

In explanation for why Benitez's transfer kitty is now reputedly all-but empty, The Times suggests that 'The Liverpool owners argue that the club must be run as a business and made it clear that pay increases handed out to Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Dirk Kuyt, Yossi Benayoun and Agger would be subtracted from the money made available to Benítez'.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I don't believe that figure for one minute, a whole host of clubs would have been battering Valencia's door down at that price

regards

 

[Richey]

And I am sure that he feels bad about it but he only sold up because he couldn't take the club any further and the fans were telling him so.

I doubt the Yanks walked into his office and said "yeah, we're not going to build a new stadium, we won't be giving the manager any money and we will plunge the club into a mountain of debt. But its okay Dave cos we'll pay you a bit extra on top to keep quiet".

We all thought that the Yanks would put money in when they bought the club, why is it so difficult to believe that David Moores was also taken in?

 

[Y1]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35297.msg927029#msg927029 date=1250591476]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35297.msg926998#msg926998 date=1250588369]

I don't think 'back up' are the right words
skrtel is positionally suspect
agger is a perma crock
a class defender could easily force his way into the first team.
[/quote]

If that's the case then Agger shouldn't have been signed up on such a much-improved contract, and getting in a top class defender should have been a priority at the start of the summer. Suddenly chasing an over-priced player now doesn't make any sense.
[/quote]

When rumours were flying that Agger was going, the whole SCM world was up in arms that we did not offer him a new contract. Now we are moaning and whining that he is a crock.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=35297.msg927043#msg927043 date=1250593182]
We all thought that the Yanks would put money in when they bought the club, why is it so difficult to believe that David Moores was also taken in?
[/quote]

Are you seriously trying to compare the position of fans who get their information from scraps in the press to that of Moores and Parry?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35297.msg927042#msg927042 date=1250593160]
I don't believe that figure for one minute, a whole host of clubs would have been battering Valencia's door down at that price

regards
[/quote]

I don't think it's that low Vlad, twice the price of Riera. Madrid went for Kaka and Ronaldo, reports suggested Barca were really only interested in Ibrahimovic. United have had their hands tied (and have never shown interest) while Chelsea and Arsenal seem short of funds too.

We're the only club to be consistently linked and he's not that proven, despite the usual excitement aroused whenever he's mentioned. I was guessing in the region of £20m for him so it's not far off really.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=35297.msg927054#msg927054 date=1250594207]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=35297.msg927043#msg927043 date=1250593182]
We all thought that the Yanks would put money in when they bought the club, why is it so difficult to believe that David Moores was also taken in?
[/quote]

Are you seriously trying to compare the position of fans who get their information from scraps in the press to that of Moores and Parry?
[/quote]

Not exactly but once the sale was made its not too far off is it?

I assume that when the Yanks came to buy the club they would have presented some kind of business plan. I highly doubt that the current situation was part of that plan. Apart from anything else it would have included a new stadium and funding for the squad.

Things have clearly not run according to plan on a number of levels. We don't know exactly what has gone wrong and why, Moores and certainly Parry will have a better idea, but there isn't much Moores can do now is there? Obviously other than resign from the board, which he has done.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=35297.msg927058#msg927058 date=1250594769]
Not exactly but once the sale was made its not too far off is it?

I assume that when the Yanks came to buy the club they would have presented some kind of business plan. I highly doubt that the current situation was part of that plan. Apart from anything else it would have included a new stadium and funding for the squad.

Things have clearly not run according to plan on a number of levels. We don't know exactly what has gone wrong and why, Moores and certainly Parry will have a better idea, but there isn't much Moores can do now is there? Obviously other than resign from the board, which he has done.
[/quote]

No, of course there is nothing he can do now - I don't think anyone is suggesting anything to the contrary. It's just sad that after all those years of searching for investment we find ourselves in this position and when blame is rightly apportioned to those who were in charge at the time, I don't think the oft presented argument of "well, I don't remember too many fans complaining" has any relevance. The fans weren't in any position to know better. The management team were.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=35297.msg927115#msg927115 date=1250600345]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=35297.msg927058#msg927058 date=1250594769]
Not exactly but once the sale was made its not too far off is it?

I assume that when the Yanks came to buy the club they would have presented some kind of business plan. I highly doubt that the current situation was part of that plan. Apart from anything else it would have included a new stadium and funding for the squad.

Things have clearly not run according to plan on a number of levels. We don't know exactly what has gone wrong and why, Moores and certainly Parry will have a better idea, but there isn't much Moores can do now is there? Obviously other than resign from the board, which he has done.
[/quote]

No, of course there is nothing he can do now - I don't think anyone is suggesting anything to the contrary. It's just sad that after all those years of searching for investment we find ourselves in this position and when blame is rightly apportioned to those who were in charge at the time, I don't think the oft presented argument of "well, I don't remember too many fans complaining" has any relevance. The fans weren't in any position to know better. The management team were.
[/quote]

Well this is it, I am wondering whether the management team could have known better. Maybe they could. I really don't know.

If they were presented with a proposal that made sense to them, and the credentials of the two guys in owning and running sports teams looked good then how would they have known it would all go wrong?

Gillett and Hicks would have pitched the bid to them impressively I'm sure. That's what they do. And they probably even believed it themselves at the time

 

[keniget]

Maybe it was an impressive bit of salesmanship by the Yanks, maybe the hugely expensive consultants, lawyers et al they employed failed them - I don't know. But after years and huge sums of money spent on seeking investment, for us to be in this situation... well... the blame can only really fall on the management team. The reasons are no longer material because what's done is done (and I'm not trying to say it was motivated by greed, self-preservation or any of the other things thrown at them - it's unfair), but the bottom line is that they failed us.

 

[Richey]

I see your point and your reasons. Personally I do not blame Moores as he was under pressure to sell and the Yanks probably said and presented all the right things.

I doubt we'll agree on this issue though, which is fair enough

 

[Vlads Quiff]

DIC dicked around for far too long, and did not send people to the table who could make decisions. Moores saw his arse , and Gillett seized the opportunity

regards

 

[Oncy]

So. Who could we get on loan?
Lets not cry about this, it is what it is. The owners said 20m plus sales and then got hit with a 60m bank repayment. So it looks like out of our total of 60m rafa has been given about 30m. So the yanks are keeping 30m made and putting in another 15m each to reduce the debt......so be it, its pretty much the worst case but it isnt going to change, same as Uniteds owners keeping 60m off Fergie i guess.
So. Yeah, like i said, where do we go now? Seriously? We need a player or two. So who could we get?
Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Van Nistlerooj, Guti, Robben, Diarra, Gago, Huntelaar, Higauin, Gudjohnson, Bojan, Metzelder, Drenthe, Vicente....who? There must be loads available. Why wouldnt we get a couple of capable bodies in if only for cup games?

 

[Wilko7]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35297.msg927159#msg927159 date=1250603956]
DIC dicked around for far too long, and did not send people to the table who could make decisions. Moores saw his arse , and Gillett seized the opportunity

regards
[/quote]

I wonder if Moores had known that it was of the lard variety before that moment.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35297.msg927451#msg927451 date=1250627602]
So. Who could we get on loan?
Lets not cry about this, it is what it is. The owners said 20m plus sales and then got hit with a 60m bank repayment. So it looks like out of our total of 60m rafa has been given about 30m. So the yanks are keeping 30m made and putting in another 15m each to reduce the debt......so be it, its pretty much the worst case but it isnt going to change, same as Uniteds owners keeping 60m off Fergie i guess.
So. Yeah, like i said, where do we go now? Seriously? We need a player or two. So who could we get?
Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Van Nistlerooj, Guti, Robben, Diarra, Gago, Huntelaar, Higauin, Gudjohnson, Bojan, Metzelder, Drenthe, Vicente....who? There must be loads available. Why wouldnt we get a couple of capable bodies in if only for cup games?
[/quote]

No they're not, they're simply taking the £20-25m CL money and transfer budget and putting it towards the bank... next year the same thing will happen unless they sell up. They will not put in their own money hence no transfer budgets for at least 3 years or until they're gone

 

[rage]

if what the yanks have done this year is the norm now to pay off their 'mortgage' so they can own the club outright without any debt attached to it how exactly do we buy any established talent?

this cannot be gotten over. we are fucked. this crop of players is the best we will have in this generation. how many players can we honestly pick up for 2 or 3 million that go on to become 20 million pound players who either help us win things and/or we sell on to buy the next step up? ffs this isn't championship manager and even if it was we haven't got 5 or 6 years to see such a approach work

i expect rafa to quit by xmas if things don't go well and them two scumbags to by physically assaulted soon after.

 

[Oncy]

I dont think you lads have quite understood my post.
Ah well.

 

[Y1]

I think Herr says 'que sera sera'

and let's get on with it!!!

 

[mark1975]

Reading what Rebel and Rage have posted in all these threads, I'm tempted to go for a walk, on the motorway.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=35297.msg927462#msg927462 date=1250630253]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35297.msg927159#msg927159 date=1250603956]
DIC dicked around for far too long, and did not send people to the table who could make decisions. Moores saw his arse , and Gillett seized the opportunity

regards
[/quote]

I wonder if Moores had known that it was of the lard variety before that moment.
[/quote]

...or when he failed to make any kind of enquiries about Hicks but took Gillett's word for Hicks' standing, massive irony that that's turned out to be. We were always going to end up in a position like the current one when the Moores family foisted that well-meaning nincompoop on us as chairman.