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Nat Baresi

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Modo said:
Lol
Philips has developed into a good defender, but he isn't even close to being as good as Matip is or was.
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If we had four centre backs in the squad though I'd feel much happier if one of them was Phillips than if one was Matip.

Matip may be a better player but as you say, Phillips is a good player too and he is more reliable than Matip in terms of injuries.
 
It'd be fucking retarded to sell Phillips. God knows how Van Dijk will look after his injury, plus he'll probably end up a little more injury prone now as result. Gomez and Matip are made out of soggy Quavers, and Konate is an unknown quantity who has also had his share of injury problems.

So, farewell, Nat...
 
Richey said:
If we had four centre backs in the squad though I'd feel much happier if one of them was Phillips than if one was Matip.

Matip may be a better player but as you say, Phillips is a good player too and he is more reliable than Matip in terms of injuries.
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I can't argue with that. Of course Philips is more reliable in terms of fitness, but there's no debate as to who the better defender is.
 
Him and Rhys performed better the last 10 games after Klopp brought the last line a couple of yards back hence were not bothered with the lack of pace . Once our normal back line resumes next season it will be pushed forward further up when defending set pieces.
 
mark1975 said:
I'll be disappointed if Nat goes. Matip is finished and it's pretty alarming that we might be going into a season yet again counting on his availability. Gomez's injury record isn't much better and all three of the maintstays are coming back after lengthy, serious injuries. We're seriously putting all of our eggs in one basket if we think they will all a) be less injury prone this time and b) come back the same players. It's a massive risk.

It should be down to the returnees to earn their place back in the side, as it always should. Not through showing their obvious quality, but by being match fit again and not playing through niggles or a lack of fitness. Phillips did nothing wrong for me and wouldn't be a huge difference in quality to Matip (who doesn't have age on his side) or Gomez, who is still prone to regular lapses.
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Klopp and the owners regularly forget about how injury prone some of our players are and it happens every single year. We have Matip, Gomez, Shaqiri, Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita who all struggle to play over 20 league games a season. In the recent past we had Lallana, Sturridge, Lovren , Ings, and Lucas who were similarly injury prone and were kept in the squad longer than they should have been. It's like we don't mind a certain amount of players being injured so they can't complain about not being in the team.
I'll be really disappointed if Phillips leaves when our defensive options going forward are so unreliable. Even our new signing Konate has a pretty poor injury record and I'm sorry but in football once a crock always a crock.
 
He will get enough games next year, defo keep.
With the injury record of our 4 defenders, hopefully Nat will stick around and we don’t sell for quick cash.
Plus his attacking side is getting better from set pieces, we miss that massively when Van Dijk is not playing...
 
peekay said:
He has remained injury free for 7-8 months. Gomez and Matip are incapable of that.
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He has, but he's the same age as Gomez and has played a third of the games. Makes it a lot easier to stay injury free.
 
refugee said:
He has, but he's the same age as Gomez and has played a third of the games. Makes it a lot easier to stay injury free.
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True. But based on the information we have, I would bet on Nat Phillips being more available than Gomez or Matip even if he starts playing regularly.
 
I'd be in favour of keeping him. In some PL games he may well be out best option, plus there's too many doubts about the other CBs. We gambled last year and it backfired miserably. We shouldn't even venture there again.

We've got other players like Wilson, Williams Origi we can sell for funds with no risk whatsoever.
 
I'd like to keep him as well, but I think this may be a case of big Nat pushing for a move himself. In a way, he probably feels a bit let down with how we've treated him.

We kept him from that move to the US a few years ago possibly with the promise of a pathway to the first team that never came. Even last year, despite injuries completely wrecking us, he didn't get a chance until after about 6 months.

Klopp clearly doesn't like slow defenders in that high line. Would you really blame him for suspecting that he'll be frozen out again if van Djik, Gomez, Konate and Matip are all fit? Of course all 4 being fit seems unlikely to us, but is Phillips really going to stake his career on the hope of injuries?

He probably thinks this is the best time to move while his stock is high, and he can get offers from a good mid-table side.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
True, but he can play in 95 percent of games.
Matip can play in at best 50 percent.
So hes as good as matip by default
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Yeah that logic doesn't work. The fact that he's more available doesn't make him a better player. It's like saying well, Kuyt was better than Torres because he was never injured.
 
Modo said:
Yeah that logic doesn't work. The fact that he's more available doesn't make him a better player. It's like saying well, Kuyt was better than Torres because he was never injured.
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Wait - we finished 3rd place because Matip is a better player or because Nat Phillips is fine and was available when we needed him?
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Wait - we finished 3rd place because Matip is a better player or because Nat Phillips is fine and was available when we needed him?
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We finished third because a bunch of other teams bottled it and because Philips was available but like I said it doesn't make him better.
I'm not arguing about who we should keep or sell. I wouldn't mind if we sold Matip and kept Philips. I'm just saying, straight up, Matip is a better defender.
Also, by your logic we won the CL with Matip starting. Lost the final when he didn't start.
So Matip = CL win.
 
Modo said:
We finished third because a bunch of other teams bottled it and because Philips was available but like I said it doesn't make him better.
I'm not arguing about who we should keep or sell. I wouldn't mind if we sold Matip and kept Philips. I'm just saying, straight up, Matip is a better defender.
Also, by your logic we won the CL with Matip starting. Lost the final when he didn't start.
So Matip = CL win.
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A cup game vs 6 months of being available bar 2 games?
Matip is a very good defender, but for a team that is so frugal, we need to a) ensure wages aren't wasted on players who cannot play due to injuries b) ensure wages aren't wasted on players who have shown they cannot compete at a good enough level most games.

I think Matip falls unfortunately in a. If he was a player who was healthy 75-80% of the season, we wouldn't have bought Konate imo.
He isn't ... the question is - GOmez or Matip?
Unless we're going for a 3-5-2 next year which means keep them all.
 
One of the most important traits for a back up should be availability. We need fewer backups if the ones we have are indestructible. Time for Joel to go, I think we'd get a great price for him, but we can't have both him & Joe in the same group of 4 CBs.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
A cup game vs 6 months of being available bar 2 games?
Matip is a very good defender, but for a team that is so frugal, we need to a) ensure wages aren't wasted on players who cannot play due to injuries b) ensure wages aren't wasted on players who have shown they cannot compete at a good enough level most games.

I think Matip falls unfortunately in a. If he was a player who was healthy 75-80% of the season, we wouldn't have bought Konate imo.
He isn't ... the question is - GOmez or Matip?
Unless we're going for a 3-5-2 next year which means keep them all.
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We also bought Konate because both Van Dijk and Matip will be 30 by the start of the season.
 
dmishra said:
I'd like to keep him as well, but I think this may be a case of big Nat pushing for a move himself. In a way, he probably feels a bit let down with how we've treated him.

We kept him from that move to the US a few years ago possibly with the promise of a pathway to the first team that never came. Even last year, despite injuries completely wrecking us, he didn't get a chance until after about 6 months.

Klopp clearly doesn't like slow defenders in that high line. Would you really blame him for suspecting that he'll be frozen out again if van Djik, Gomez, Konate and Matip are all fit? Of course all 4 being fit seems unlikely to us, but is Phillips really going to stake his career on the hope of injuries?

He probably thinks this is the best time to move while his stock is high, and he can get offers from a good mid-table side.
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I think that probably is right in terms of Phillips considering leaving himself. The club and his agent would have had enquiries about him already I would have thought and it makes sense that he would consider them.

I would be a little surprised if he feels let down as such though. If he had taken that scholarship in the US I very much doubt he would be in the position that he is in now, having had some good experience in the Premier League, the Champions League and in Germany, and it appears offers on the table from other Premier League clubs. I suspect that he would say that he made the right choice in choosing Liverpool over the US.

As I said before, I would like to see him stay. He’s a really good and reliable defender and, actually, you never know, he could even end up as first choice here over time. You just don’t know how things will turn out and how players develop (he’s still relatively young too). That said, it is a gamble for him to stay at Liverpool. The offers he is getting now might not be on the table next year.
 
Brizzle said:
One of the most important traits for a back up should be availability. We need fewer backups if the ones we have are indestructible. Time for Joel to go, I think we'd get a great price for him, but we can't have both him & Joe in the same group of 4 CBs.
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What would you consider to be a great price for a 30 year old CB on £100k a week thats only fit enough to play 20% of a clubs fixtures? Matip represents a very big risk for any potential buyer even on a cheap deal so I'm struggling to see why anybody would pay a significant amount of money for him. It's a shame because when fit he's one of the best CBs in the league, I'm not even sure he could pass a medical in the next month.
 
RedStar said:
What would you consider to be a great price for a 30 year old CB on £100k a week thats only fit enough to play 20% of a clubs fixtures? Matip represents a very big risk for any potential buyer even on a cheap deal so I'm struggling to see why anybody would pay a significant amount of money for him. It's a shame because when fit he's one of the best CBs in the league, I'm not even sure he could pass a medical in the next month.
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Fair challenge - but I could see a team wanting to challenge for CL in their respective league being willing to part with 15/20m. If he is kept back to playing once a week (i.e. mostly in league games) he would be an asset to many teams. For us fighting on 4 fronts, he is a risk at this point (if he wants to be first choice). I'd rather have those wages going towards someone reliable.
 
Brizzle said:
Fair challenge - but I could see a team wanting to challenge for CL in their respective league being willing to part with 15/20m. If he is kept back to playing once a week (i.e. mostly in league games) he would be an asset to many teams. For us fighting on 4 fronts, he is a risk at this point (if he wants to be first choice). I'd rather have those wages going towards someone reliable.
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I can't see anyone paying 15-20M for Matip.

And we don't fight on 4 fronts. We fight on 2 - the league and the CL.
 
Getting money for Matip??????

We’d be lucky to get someone take him on a free with us paying half his wages for 3 years!!!
 
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