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Napoli cí.

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You seem to assume that the significant difference I'm talking about is that which would come from Pacheco/Amoo/Suso/Babel/Maxi or whoever replaced Shelvey/Meireles in the attacking third. I'm not. I'm happy to admit that that's a gamble (although it's one I would take as I'm pretty sure Pacheco et. al would produce a lot more in the attacking third than Shelvey or Meireles)

The significant difference I'm talking about is what you would get by replacing Poulsen with Shelvey/Meireles. It's massive and can't be understated. That's why I call him conservative - for playing 2 DMs with little to zero footballing ability in the engine room.
 
I can only see Meireles out right to justify it happen in the wekeend also. If he start mucking around when the engine room finally worked out I am getting quite angry.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211257#msg1211257 date=1288869970]
I can only see Meireles out right to justify it happen in the wekeend also. If he start mucking around when the engine room finally worked out I am getting quite angry.
[/quote]

It's idiotic and infuriating and it shows why he's a piss poor manager. He's struggled to get the spine of team correct for a single fucking game. Cardinal rules are
i) It must always have Carra, Gerrard, Meireles, Torres and Reina
ii) should under no circumstances contain Lucas or Poulsen, even if any of the above players are unaivalable - Use Shelvey, Spearing, Kelly or give anyone else a chance but the Cunt twins

I'm not too arsed with what he does with the wide players as we have a limited and talent-less bunch to choose from, but at least he could get the fucking spine right. For once. The spine, the centre or the engine room is the most important part of the side. It's what you need to compete (whereas the wide areas help you win - both compete and win being used in the generic sense here). He can't and it's why I want him out.

I also don't understand why people want anyone to give him a break. Why? Because he's just won two games?

We can start giving him a break once he gets us back in the top 4, or maybe show some remote signs of that, even. Since that's never happening, I don' think anyone's shutting up about wanting him out.
 
That's quite a myopic view, his hands have been tied alot of the time by injuries. When he's had the players available he's played Carra at centre back, he's played him on the right in the absence of Johnson, and I'm guessing because of how fragile we've been defensively he's wanted to short things up, which is fair enough and fairly logical.

I don't want to see Meireles on the right, but he wouldn't be the first manager to blood a new central player outwide or in a role with less defensive responsibility to ease them into the side, which is the only reason I can see why he'd persevered with it to begin with.

He hasn't been stubborn over Poulsen, it didn't work and he stopped playing him and didn't just stick with it to try and prove everyone wrong, so there's no reason to suggest he'll play on Sunday, I think it's more a case of utilising a bit of experience to see the game through, it might not work out to be pretty but we're not blessed with options either. So what point are you making about the backbone when most of those players have more or less played central, give or take Meireles for a few games and Carra to cover for injuries?

There's a shitload of generalising going on here without acknowledging the facts and circumstances.

Insig has made this suggestion that Meireles and Poulsen are playing in these positions with a view to Sunday, that's just speculative and you're jumping on it like it's a fact. Let's just see how the game pans out and how we lineup first eh?

Oh and it's also worth noting that Insig has been on this "we're defensive" trip for weeks now, even pointing to the City lineup as evidence, despite us going there with two strikers, and ironically, probably getting fucked over because we couldn't play our best defensive midfielder in that game.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211281#msg1211281 date=1288872326]
That's quite a myopic view, his hands have been tied alot of the time by injuries. When he's had the players available he's played Carra at centre back, he's played him on the right in the absence of Johnson, and I'm guessing because of how fragile we've been defensively he's wanted to short things up, which is fair enough and fairly logical.

I don't want to see Meireles on the right, but he wouldn't be the first manager to blood a new central player outwide or in a role with less defensive responsibility to ease them into the side, which is the only reason I can see why he'd persevered with it to begin with.

He hasn't been stubborn over Poulsen, it didn't work and he stopped playing him and didn't just stick with it to try and prove everyone wrong, so there's no reason to suggest he'll play on Sunday, I think it's more a case of utilising a bit of experience to see the game through, it might not work out to be pretty but we're not blessed with options either.

Insig has made this suggestion that Meireles and Poulsen are playing in these positions with a view to Sunday, that's just speculative and you're jumping on it like it's a fact. Let's just see how the game pans out and how we lineup first eh?

Oh and it's also worth noting that Insig has been on this "we're defensive" trip for weeks now, even pointing to the City lineup as evidence, despite us going there with two strikers, and ironically, probably getting fucked over because we couldn't play our best defensive midfielder in that game.
[/quote]

I think you are wrong about my statements. I have said that the Napoli game away showed the true calibre of Roys football, and that was down to hard defensive work with clearly limited squad. And I stand by that.

Yes it is speculative to say Meireles will play on the right against Chelsea with Poulsen in the middle. But are doubting it will happen?
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211286#msg1211286 date=1288872718]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211281#msg1211281 date=1288872326]
That's quite a myopic view, his hands have been tied alot of the time by injuries. When he's had the players available he's played Carra at centre back, he's played him on the right in the absence of Johnson, and I'm guessing because of how fragile we've been defensively he's wanted to short things up, which is fair enough and fairly logical.

I don't want to see Meireles on the right, but he wouldn't be the first manager to blood a new central player outwide or in a role with less defensive responsibility to ease them into the side, which is the only reason I can see why he'd persevered with it to begin with.

He hasn't been stubborn over Poulsen, it didn't work and he stopped playing him and didn't just stick with it to try and prove everyone wrong, so there's no reason to suggest he'll play on Sunday, I think it's more a case of utilising a bit of experience to see the game through, it might not work out to be pretty but we're not blessed with options either.

Insig has made this suggestion that Meireles and Poulsen are playing in these positions with a view to Sunday, that's just speculative and you're jumping on it like it's a fact. Let's just see how the game pans out and how we lineup first eh?

Oh and it's also worth noting that Insig has been on this "we're defensive" trip for weeks now, even pointing to the City lineup as evidence, despite us going there with two strikers, and ironically, probably getting fucked over because we couldn't play our best defensive midfielder in that game.
[/quote]

I think you are wrong about my statements. I have said that the Napoli game away showed the true calibre of Roys football, and that was down to hard defensive work with clearly limited squad. And I stand by that.

Yes it is speculative to say Meireles will play on the right against Chelsea with Poulsen in the middle. But are doubting it will happen?
[/quote]

Cole is out, Maxi got a knock last week and Kuyt has been out for a couple of weeks too, so of course there's a possibility, what do you want me to say? Will you admit that we're left incredibly short and it might be a case of needs must? I don't want to see him play there but I can see that there aren't a whole lot of options or alternatives available to us either. And prior to your comments about our "terrible" away performance in Italy, you DID point to the Arsenal and City games as evidence of our so called defensive minded approach.
 
You call that a myopic view. I don't agree. I've called out his team selections PRIOR to almost every game and I've never indulged in criticism in hindsight. I could run you through all team selections so far this season and tell you why I think they're either (a) conservative; or (b) just fucking stupid.

But I'll restrict myself to pointing that one of Lucas or Poulsen or both of them have started a majority of the games this season. Further, our best central defender has played at right-back when a perfectly good replacement for Johnson (Kelly) has been available for selection. It's just not acceptable for me.

And I'm assuming that our discussion here is limited only to his team-selection and not to his tactics, his pathetic substitutions and overall defeatist attitude. Those have been amply dwelt upon separately in about a zillion threads and may, according to most people, be the primary reasons as to why he must be sacked. But I believe he's equally culpable for his team selections. You've pointed out before that his team selections are not too different from what other managers would go for but that's as much in the realm of conjecture and generalisation as anything I've said.

I guess we can agree to differ. But I fail to see why you want Hodgson out yourself if you think he's not doing that badly.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211287#msg1211287 date=1288872877]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211286#msg1211286 date=1288872718]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211281#msg1211281 date=1288872326]
That's quite a myopic view, his hands have been tied alot of the time by injuries. When he's had the players available he's played Carra at centre back, he's played him on the right in the absence of Johnson, and I'm guessing because of how fragile we've been defensively he's wanted to short things up, which is fair enough and fairly logical.

I don't want to see Meireles on the right, but he wouldn't be the first manager to blood a new central player outwide or in a role with less defensive responsibility to ease them into the side, which is the only reason I can see why he'd persevered with it to begin with.

He hasn't been stubborn over Poulsen, it didn't work and he stopped playing him and didn't just stick with it to try and prove everyone wrong, so there's no reason to suggest he'll play on Sunday, I think it's more a case of utilising a bit of experience to see the game through, it might not work out to be pretty but we're not blessed with options either.

Insig has made this suggestion that Meireles and Poulsen are playing in these positions with a view to Sunday, that's just speculative and you're jumping on it like it's a fact. Let's just see how the game pans out and how we lineup first eh?

Oh and it's also worth noting that Insig has been on this "we're defensive" trip for weeks now, even pointing to the City lineup as evidence, despite us going there with two strikers, and ironically, probably getting fucked over because we couldn't play our best defensive midfielder in that game.
[/quote]

I think you are wrong about my statements. I have said that the Napoli game away showed the true calibre of Roys football, and that was down to hard defensive work with clearly limited squad. And I stand by that.

Yes it is speculative to say Meireles will play on the right against Chelsea with Poulsen in the middle. But are doubting it will happen?
[/quote]

Cole is out, Maxi got a knock last week and Kuyt has been out for a couple of weeks too, so of course there's a possibility, what do you want me to say? Will you admit that we're left incredibly short and it might be a case of needs must? I don't want to see him play there but I can see that there aren't a whole lot of options or alternatives available to us either. And prior to your comments about our "terrible" away performance in Italy, you DID point to the Arsenal and City games as evidence of our so called defensive minded approach.

[/quote]
My memory is to short and my statements are often to bold and black/white, so you might defo be right there...
 
Look, I don't want Hodgson, his tactics have sometimes baffled me, his attitude in the press has often been poor, and in general we all know he was never the man to lead us to where we want to be.

What I can't stand is the generalising and second guessing like it's all 'fact', to act as a means to put the boot in further. We're short on numbers and options so whatever he does will be scrutinised and even if he picks the perfect line-up and we win, it seems by some posters he'll still be crucified for something.

I'm all for getting a new manager in at some point, but in the meantime I'll support the team (and the manager) and providing the lineups aren't catastrophic, forgive me if I don't get all hoolafuckingballoo dissecting every little point of his management, lineup and tactics. If we win I'm happy, the rest will follow either way.

So yeah, he's not good enough, but we're not left in the best state either and that's not all his fault, however much you want to blame him for what's already happened, what you predict (with great success apparently) WILL happen, while generalising over the facts and ignoring the mitigating factors and circumstance involved.

Just do me a favour and point to where I said he's not doing badly? This is exactly the kind of generalising I'm referring to, all I'm saying is through circumstance and the state of the club (and the team) it's not entirely his fault and sometimes his hands have been tied. Like your post about the backbone, talk about quiffing over the facts, Kelly has been injured at times and he didn't have the greatest of games in his last match either, yet you're acting as though playing Carragher there at right back has been a disastrous decision, despite it coinciding with a run of a couple of good results. So feel free to continually be selective with your argument, I'm struggling to see what point you were making when more often than not 4 of your 5 players that make up our spine have played in their natural roles, and in Carragher, at least in a role he's filled many times before. It's a stupid fucking point because it's been one of the pluses of the last couple of games, at least in terms of better defensive play and the performances of Soto, but hey, God forbid should he get some positive acknowledgement for anything.
 
I think we'll win.

Napoli looked poor at home and I doubt they'll be much better at Anfield. Italian teams seems to prefer Serie A especially when we're only talking Europa League.

We are on the up now after having won two games on the trot and new confidence has been injected into even the fringe players. So even without Gerrard and Torres and Kuyt and Cole we'll be strong enough to win.

I predict a 3-0 victory.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211304#msg1211304 date=1288874725]
I think we'll win.

Napoli looked poor at home and I doubt they'll be much better at Anfield. Italian teams seems to prefer Serie A especially when we're only talking Europa League.

We are on the up now after having won two games on the trot and new confidence has been injected into even the fringe players. So even without Gerrard and Torres and Kuyt and Cole we'll be strong enough to win.

I predict a 3-0 victory.
[/quote]

Wow. Your still high on FCKs performance are you??? 😉
 
Hodgson on the lineup:

"We have tried to use the squad a lot more in European matches. We never had much choice at the beginning.

"Since then we have had a bit of choice and we have kept our injuries down and for that I have to congratulate our Sports Science department.

"It is nice to know that some of these players - like Jay Spearing - are getting a chance to show what they can do and play regular football.

"It also enables one or two of the players to get a rest. I am satisfied with that but I am not sure that our strength in depth is as good as it needs to be."
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211311#msg1211311 date=1288875261]
Hodgson on the lineup:

"We have tried to use the squad a lot more in European matches. We never had much choice at the beginning.

"Since then we have had a bit of choice and we have kept our injuries down and for that I have to congratulate our Sports Science department.

"It is nice to know that some of these players - like Jay Spearing - are getting a chance to show what they can do and play regular football.

"It also enables one or two of the players to get a rest. I am satisfied with that but I am not sure that our strength in depth is as good as it needs to be."
[/quote]

No Roy, it isn´t. Now you know.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211303#msg1211303 date=1288874576]
Look, I don't want Hodgson, his tactics have sometimes baffled me, his attitude in the press has often been poor, and in general we all know he was never the man to lead us to where we want to be.

What I can't stand is the generalising and second guessing like it's all 'fact', to act as a means to put the boot in further. We're short on numbers and options so whatever he does will be scrutinised and even if he picks the perfect line-up and we win, it seems by some posters he'll still be crucified for something.

I'm all for getting a new manager in at some point, but in the meantime I'll support the team (and the manager) and providing the lineups aren't catastrophic, forgive me if I don't get all hoolafuckingballoo dissecting every little point of his management, lineup and tactics. If we win I'm happy, the rest will follow either way.

So yeah, he's not good enough, but we're not left in the best state either and that's not all his fault, however much you want to blame him for what's already happened, what you predict (with great success apparently) WILL happen, while generalising over the facts and ignoring the mitigating factors and circumstance involved.

Just do me a favour and point to where I said he's not doing badly? This is exactly the kind of generalising I'm referring to, all I'm saying is through circumstance and the state of the club (and the team) it's not entirely his fault and sometimes his hands have been tied. Like your post about the backbone, talk about quiffing over the facts, Kelly has been injured at times and he didn't have the greatest of games in his last match either, yet you're acting as though playing Carragher there at right back has been a disastrous decision, despite it coinciding with a run of a couple of good results. So feel free to continually be selective with your argument, I'm struggling to see what point you were making when more often than not 4 of your 5 players that make up our spine have played in their natural roles, and in Carragher, at least in a role he's filled many times before. It's a stupid fucking point because it's been one of the pluses of the last couple of games, at least in terms of better defensive play and the performances of Soto.


[/quote]

It's just the impression you give, and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you join the Roy out brigade very recently. So I thought I wouldn't be wrong in assuming that you felt he wasn't doing too badly. But fair enough, I guess, you've explained what you have an exact issue with.

As to the rest of the stuff, I've already said we'll have to agree to disagree. I've said it already - the core of the side has OFTEN been absent of its strongest available players (Meireles being played out wide and Lucas/Poulsen playing in the centre, Lucas/Poulsen playing period (when Shelvey and Spearing were available), Carra playing at right-back (when Kelly was available).

As another slight note, it'd be nice if you didn't bring the issue of supporting the team regardless of form. I sort of assume that ALL of us on this site do that anyway. The only reason we come on here and rant and spout our rubbish is because we want to debate. I know someone like Brendan gets a lot of stick about being all happy just because he's proven right. Maybe it's because he rubs it in, but I think it's massively stupid to do so - questioning anyone's support or unhappiness at the state of affairs our club is in. That's something you associate with the RAWK superfan and I hate it seeing on this site. I doubt anyone is ever happy when we lose just so that he can be proven right.

Just saying, in case that's what you meant.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211310#msg1211310 date=1288875151]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211304#msg1211304 date=1288874725]
I think we'll win.

Napoli looked poor at home and I doubt they'll be much better at Anfield. Italian teams seems to prefer Serie A especially when we're only talking Europa League.

We are on the up now after having won two games on the trot and new confidence has been injected into even the fringe players. So even without Gerrard and Torres and Kuyt and Cole we'll be strong enough to win.

I predict a 3-0 victory.
[/quote]

Wow. Your still high on FCKs performance are you??? 😉
[/quote]
Haha.. I know Ståle is!

We'll play with confidence tonight perhaps for the first time all Season. I've got a good feeling that's all.

Roy's Boys Will Shine!!
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211328#msg1211328 date=1288877078]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211310#msg1211310 date=1288875151]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211304#msg1211304 date=1288874725]
I think we'll win.

Napoli looked poor at home and I doubt they'll be much better at Anfield. Italian teams seems to prefer Serie A especially when we're only talking Europa League.

We are on the up now after having won two games on the trot and new confidence has been injected into even the fringe players. So even without Gerrard and Torres and Kuyt and Cole we'll be strong enough to win.

I predict a 3-0 victory.
[/quote]

Wow. Your still high on FCKs performance are you??? 😉
[/quote]
Haha.. I know Ståle are!

We'll play with confidence tonight perhaps for the first time all Season. I've got a good feeling that's all.

Roy's Boys Will Shine!!
[/quote]

Hmmm Maybe Ståle is the kind of coach who can work for Comolli. He loves Liverpool for a start!
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211329#msg1211329 date=1288877184]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211328#msg1211328 date=1288877078]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42570.msg1211310#msg1211310 date=1288875151]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42570.msg1211304#msg1211304 date=1288874725]
I think we'll win.

Napoli looked poor at home and I doubt they'll be much better at Anfield. Italian teams seems to prefer Serie A especially when we're only talking Europa League.

We are on the up now after having won two games on the trot and new confidence has been injected into even the fringe players. So even without Gerrard and Torres and Kuyt and Cole we'll be strong enough to win.

I predict a 3-0 victory.
[/quote]

Wow. Your still high on FCKs performance are you??? 😉
[/quote]
Haha.. I know Ståle are!

We'll play with confidence tonight perhaps for the first time all Season. I've got a good feeling that's all.

Roy's Boys Will Shine!!
[/quote]

Hmmm Maybe Ståle is the kind of coach who can work for Comolli. He loves Liverpool for a start!
[/quote]
I've had an admittedly very far fetched similiar idea for a few secs. The spat he had with Guardiola made me wonder if he was ready to have a go at the biggest stage. One thing's for certain he's not shy and he's certainly done wonders with his team.

At least we'd then start to close down teams from the off.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42570.msg1211324#msg1211324 date=1288875825]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42570.msg1211303#msg1211303 date=1288874576]
Look, I don't want Hodgson, his tactics have sometimes baffled me, his attitude in the press has often been poor, and in general we all know he was never the man to lead us to where we want to be.

What I can't stand is the generalising and second guessing like it's all 'fact', to act as a means to put the boot in further. We're short on numbers and options so whatever he does will be scrutinised and even if he picks the perfect line-up and we win, it seems by some posters he'll still be crucified for something.

I'm all for getting a new manager in at some point, but in the meantime I'll support the team (and the manager) and providing the lineups aren't catastrophic, forgive me if I don't get all hoolafuckingballoo dissecting every little point of his management, lineup and tactics. If we win I'm happy, the rest will follow either way.

So yeah, he's not good enough, but we're not left in the best state either and that's not all his fault, however much you want to blame him for what's already happened, what you predict (with great success apparently) WILL happen, while generalising over the facts and ignoring the mitigating factors and circumstance involved.

Just do me a favour and point to where I said he's not doing badly? This is exactly the kind of generalising I'm referring to, all I'm saying is through circumstance and the state of the club (and the team) it's not entirely his fault and sometimes his hands have been tied. Like your post about the backbone, talk about quiffing over the facts, Kelly has been injured at times and he didn't have the greatest of games in his last match either, yet you're acting as though playing Carragher there at right back has been a disastrous decision, despite it coinciding with a run of a couple of good results. So feel free to continually be selective with your argument, I'm struggling to see what point you were making when more often than not 4 of your 5 players that make up our spine have played in their natural roles, and in Carragher, at least in a role he's filled many times before. It's a stupid fucking point because it's been one of the pluses of the last couple of games, at least in terms of better defensive play and the performances of Soto.


[/quote]

It's just the impression you give, and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you join the Roy out brigade very recently. So I thought I wouldn't be wrong in assuming that you felt he wasn't doing too badly. But fair enough, I guess, you've explained what you have an exact issue with.

As to the rest of the stuff, I've already said we'll have to agree to disagree. I've said it already - the core of the side has OFTEN been absent of its strongest available players (Meireles being played out wide and Lucas/Poulsen playing in the centre, Lucas/Poulsen playing period (when Shelvey and Spearing were available), Carra playing at right-back (when Kelly was available).

As another slight note, it'd be nice if you didn't bring the issue of supporting the team regardless of form. I sort of assume that ALL of us on this site do that anyway. The only reason we come on here and rant and spout our rubbish is because we want to debate. I know someone like Brendan gets a lot of stick about being all happy just because he's proven right. Maybe it's because he rubs it in, but I think it's massively stupid to do so - questioning anyone's support or unhappiness at the state of affairs our club is in. That's something you associate with the RAWK superfan and I hate it seeing on this site. I doubt anyone is ever happy when we lose just so that he can be proven right.

Just saying, in case that's what you meant.
[/quote]

Sorry it wasn't a dig at you, just the general consensus to the degree where a few divs WERE wishing defeat on us ahead of the Blackpool game so that Roy would go, and I've seen the same sort of things hinted at since.

I'm running out of enthusiasm and fight for it all, the manager will go eventually unless by some miracle he does something majestic but it just angers me sometimes when it seems the boot is being put in for the sake of it, which is why I said about supporting the team through it all and therefore the manager. He is what he is, when he makes mistakes he'll rightfully be ridiculed but as long as the results hopefully continue to go our way he deserves some slack.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42570.msg1210935#msg1210935 date=1288816098]
True. It was a FAMOUS RESULT last time against Napoli.
[/quote]

I didn't say that, so why bother?
 
Re: Napoli cí.

And Napoli are a far better side than they showed to us.

They're very erratic, but if they play to anywhere like they're potential then they can easily put 2 goals past us at Anfield.
 
This is the line-up now apparently:

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Konchesky, Shelvey, Spearing, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Meireles, N’gog
 
We're doing fine in Europe with no real worries about qualification.

Our best team has to be saved for the Premiership.
 
Lack of attacking options on the bench, as usual.

Subs: Hansen, Gerrard, Lucas, Wilson, Kelly, Skrtel, Eccleston
 
Well, there were pictures of him training and no news about him being injured. So I assume he's been ignored.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42570.msg1211487#msg1211487 date=1288898866]
possibly quiffing here, but where da fuck is dani pacheco? injured or ostracised?

[/quote]He's busy practicing to be a centre back.
 
Haha. Good old Deadly in the studio recounting an encounter with a police horse on the way into the ground. The horse sat on his car. Jim Rosenthal shows clips of horses.

"Which one was it Dirk? Would you recognise it?"

"Yeah, the one with the big arse".
 
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