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my observations of the blackpool away game

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spider-Neil

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feel free to agree or disagree

1. passing
I have no idea what these guys do in training but for the life of me I cannot understand why so many passes fail to find their mark. I have no idea why the plays feel they have to take that extra touch. several times yesterday we break forwards and there would be a person in space only to be ignored and the move break down. for the goal it was so simple 2-3 passes to players stood in obvious positions - goal! followed a few minutes later by not picking out the correct simple passes and being caught in possession - goal!
I really hope kenny reintroduced 5 aside because these players need to learn the basics of football.

2. poulsen
you have to assume kenny wants to give everyone a clean slate and try all the players at his disposal.
the guy can't pass, tackle, position himself. a complete and utter waste of space the hapless hodgson has lumbered on the club. juventus must have PISSED themselves laughing when we took him off their hand and PAID them for the privilege. more than any player in the squad (including konchesky) I hope I never see poulsen in a red shirt ever again but I fear today wasn't his last appearance.

3. kuyt and jove
both of them were exactly the same, collect the ball, hold the ball until you have defenders coming out of your ears (move has long since broken down) and then pass to a player who has a opposition defender standing right them.
everytime. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!!!
what happened to giving the ball easy? what happened to working the channels? what happened to moving into space and then giving it to a team mate in space?
I hope both are fucked off in the summer. I'm sick and tired of kuyt's annual, set your watch by it, SLUMP, where he runs around like a fucking headless chicken and has the touch of an absolute rapist.
I'd rather just have an old fashioned winger who maybe doesn't fill his boots with goals but gets up and down the line, give the team width and has a decent cross.

4. skrtel
has no idea how to read the game. NONE.
it's unfair to blame him for the goal seeing as it was miereles' fuck up that put us on the back foot but watch how skrtel positions himself to cut out the danger. we gave blackpool a way back into the match on a fucking PLATE.
skrtel needs to sit himself down and watch dvds of sami in action, a man who never dives in and just anticipates danger and positions himself accordingly to snuff that danger out, failing that we should just get rid when carra is fit again and either promote wilson or buy a new centre back.

5. pressing
it pleased be that we were pressing higher and faster, torres had more supported and looked better as a result.

6. miereles
either needs to learn how to tackle or should be moved to an area where tackling is less of a prerequisite. his passing was also all over the place and it was his mispace that resulted in b'pool's early equalizer. he is better than this but he needs to sort it the fuck out. if we wanted to field a player who can pass but is shit scared to make a tackle we may as well have keep aqualini who is a FUCK of a lot better at passing then miereles.

7. lucas
has obviously been give introductions to support the fowards more, he was making bursting runs into the box.
I didn't think he was great but I certainly think he put in the best midfield performance which is probably damning praise praise.

8. defending
we are failing to defend as a unit. there should be lines of us so if a opposition players gets past the first line there runs into the second line, it's too easy to pull us around the pitch, it is too easy to seperate the centre backs it's to easy to run in or goal. we need to get organised and press for the ball in numbers when we don't have it.

9. johnson
was skinned a few times but made some great runs into the box without delivering the final ball.
if johnson is to be moved on I for one will be disappointed if he isn't at least given ONE game at right midfield, just to see how he does in the role.

10. kelly
very solid defensively. should get an extended run in the team, he deserves it.

11. pepe and torres
both world class who were badly let down by their team mates. pepe was fantastic last night and the score would have been embarrassing but for him. torres looks back, he was full of drive and passion and the finish in the first half was out of the top drawer.

12. kenny
it was a poor team selection but kenny has been in the door five minutes. we're just above the drop zone so now isn't the time for experiements but he would have learnt things from yesterday, no doubt about it.
it will take time for kenny to get across his methods and instill confidence in the team because the players are badly lacking confidence but if anyone can get them playing as a unit again, it's kenny but it will take time. hopefully we'll see less games where there are square pegs in round holes.

I also think kenny had one eye on the derby which giving how many points we are above the drop zone is a little crazy. we are desparate for points. EVERY game is important now. fuck rest, if they are fit to play then play them get the 3 points and then worry about the consequences later.
 
Re: my observations of the blackburn away game

blackpool game you mean?
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251585#msg1251585 date=1294908613]
blackpool game you mean?
[/quote]

burn, pool, what's the difference? 😉
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251586#msg1251586 date=1294908694]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251585#msg1251585 date=1294908613]
blackpool game you mean?
[/quote]

burn, pool, what's the difference? 😉
[/quote]

certainly not the points won
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251588#msg1251588 date=1294908793]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251586#msg1251586 date=1294908694]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251585#msg1251585 date=1294908613]
blackpool game you mean?
[/quote]

burn, pool, what's the difference? 😉
[/quote]

certainly not the points won
[/quote]

ha ha *sobs*
 
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251595#msg1251595 date=1294909083]
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
[/quote]

He didn't inject anything last night. Again.
 
Good post Neil. Although I didn't see the game, so you could be talking shit for all I know. But it sounds good.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43605.msg1251597#msg1251597 date=1294909255]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251595#msg1251595 date=1294909083]
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
[/quote]

He didn't inject anything last night. Again.
[/quote]

the type of position shevely plays he needs to start games rather than come in a sub. he's not an impact player.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=43605.msg1251599#msg1251599 date=1294909319]
Good post Neil. Although I didn't see the game, so you could be talking shit for all I know. But it sounds good.
[/quote]

in this instance I wish I were and our problems were superficial rather than deep rooted.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43605.msg1251597#msg1251597 date=1294909255]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251595#msg1251595 date=1294909083]
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
[/quote]

He didn't inject anything last night. Again.
[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251600#msg1251600 date=1294909392]

the type of position shevely plays he needs to start games rather than come in a sub. he's not an impact player.
[/quote]

Correct. There's very very very VERY few CM's who are impact players. They change the game over the course of the game.
 
I agree with lots there. Mereiles and Poulson were completely bypassed by their midfield last night. Ming's tackling was limp beyond belief, and for a supposed midfield enforcer, Poulson was utterly ineffectual. Our shape was much better going forward but the execution was grim. Lucas and Ming joined the forwards in attack but just lacked composure time and again. I honestly think we have nothing to lose by trying Pacheco and Suso.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251604#msg1251604 date=1294909607]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43605.msg1251597#msg1251597 date=1294909255]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251595#msg1251595 date=1294909083]
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
[/quote]

He didn't inject anything last night. Again.
[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251600#msg1251600 date=1294909392]

the type of position shevely plays he needs to start games rather than come in a sub. he's not an impact player.
[/quote]

Correct. There's very very very VERY few CM's who are impact players. They change the game over the course of the game.
[/quote]

Very well said.

And really, the team selection was atrocious. There's no other way to put it. As were the subs.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43605.msg1251612#msg1251612 date=1294910140]
I agree with lots there. Mereiles and Poulson were completely bypassed by their midfield last night. Ming's tackling was limp beyond belief, and for a supposed midfield enforcer, Poulson was utterly ineffectual. Our shape was much better going forward but the execution was grim. Lucas and Ming joined the forwards in attack but just lacked composure time and again. I honestly think we have nothing to lose by trying Pacheco and Suso.
[/quote]

Problem being in what we gain in creativity, we're losing in strength. Yes the midfield was bypassed last night (i didn't see the game) but i'm sure when poulson/ming has the ball in their possession (rather than passing it) they won't be outmuscled
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251604#msg1251604 date=1294909607]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43605.msg1251597#msg1251597 date=1294909255]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251595#msg1251595 date=1294909083]
can't overly fault what you've said. We're just so poor at the minute i'm struggling for positives. We need to play shelvey just to inject some life into midfield
[/quote]

He didn't inject anything last night. Again.
[/quote]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251600#msg1251600 date=1294909392]

the type of position shevely plays he needs to start games rather than come in a sub. he's not an impact player.
[/quote]

Correct. There's very very very VERY few CM's who are impact players. They change the game over the course of the game.



[/quote]

Fair point. I'm just reacting against the perception on here that Shelvey is ready for the first team.

I like the lad and think there's potential for a first-teamer in him, but not one game he's played in has suggested he's anything but very raw at the moment. And that includes the odd reserve outing, which he really should be dominating (like Spearing does at that level).

The other day most in here were putting Shelvey in their best 11. I find that more a reaction to the ineptitude of Lucas/Poulson than anything (understandable) than any reflection on the impact Shelvey has made.

We need a new (or 2) DM. Period. Shelvey will not be ready for a couple of years yet.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43605.msg1251624#msg1251624 date=1294910768]


Fair point. I'm just reacting against the perception on here that Shelvey is ready for the first team.

I like the lad and think there's potential for a first-teamer in him, but not one game he's played in has suggested he's anything but very raw at the moment. And that includes the odd reserve outing, which he really should be dominating (like Spearing does at that level).

The other day most in here were putting Shelvey in their best 11. I find that more a reaction to the ineptitude of Lucas/Poulson than anything (understandable) than any reflection on the impact Shelvey has made.

We need a new (or 2) DM. Period. Shelvey will not be ready for a couple of years yet.
[/quote]

it is too soon to start asking him to be a guaranteed starter every week. but based on how our midfield is performing, we need a change, someone who gives 100% in effort
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251617#msg1251617 date=1294910450]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43605.msg1251612#msg1251612 date=1294910140]
I agree with lots there. Mereiles and Poulson were completely bypassed by their midfield last night. Ming's tackling was limp beyond belief, and for a supposed midfield enforcer, Poulson was utterly ineffectual. Our shape was much better going forward but the execution was grim. Lucas and Ming joined the forwards in attack but just lacked composure time and again. I honestly think we have nothing to lose by trying Pacheco and Suso.
[/quote]

Problem being in what we gain in creativity, we're losing in strength. Yes the midfield was bypassed last night (i didn't see the game) but i'm sure when poulson/ming has the ball in their possession (rather than passing it) they won't be outmuscled
[/quote]

I don't understand what you're saying here Fab unless you're advocating Ming and Poulson dribbling around midfield with the ball never releasing it. Players need to pass the ball. Unfortunately our players were passing, almost without exception, to Tangerine shirts. Then Ming and Poulson failed to tackle. Lucas tried, God love him. Suso and Patches would allow us to keep the ball better. Remember 'pass and move'?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251582#msg1251582 date=1294908293]


12. kenny
it was a poor team selection but kenny has been in the door five minutes. we're just above the drop zone so now isn't the time for experiements but he would have learnt things from yesterday, no doubt about it.
it will take time for kenny to get across his methods and instill confidence in the team because the players are badly lacking confidence but if anyone can get them playing as a unit again, it's kenny but it will take time. hopefully we'll see less games where there are square pegs in round holes.

I also think kenny had one eye on the derby which giving how many points we are above the drop zone is a little crazy. we are desparate for points. EVERY game is important now. fuck rest, if they are fit to play then play them get the 3 points and then worry about the consequences later.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be difficult to criticise him as he has only just arrived and never seen Poulson and Lucas playing in midfield together before :🙂

regards
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43605.msg1251633#msg1251633 date=1294911135]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43605.msg1251617#msg1251617 date=1294910450]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43605.msg1251612#msg1251612 date=1294910140]
I agree with lots there. Mereiles and Poulson were completely bypassed by their midfield last night. Ming's tackling was limp beyond belief, and for a supposed midfield enforcer, Poulson was utterly ineffectual. Our shape was much better going forward but the execution was grim. Lucas and Ming joined the forwards in attack but just lacked composure time and again. I honestly think we have nothing to lose by trying Pacheco and Suso.
[/quote]

Problem being in what we gain in creativity, we're losing in strength. Yes the midfield was bypassed last night (i didn't see the game) but i'm sure when poulson/ming has the ball in their possession (rather than passing it) they won't be outmuscled
[/quote]

I don't understand what you're saying here Fab unless you're advocating Ming and Poulson dribbling around midfield with the ball never releasing it. Players need to pass the ball. Unfortunately our players were passing, almost without exception, to Tangerine shirts. Then Ming and Poulson failed to tackle. Lucas tried, God love him. Suso and Patches would allow us to keep the ball better. Remember 'pass and move'?
[/quote]

i'll try to explain better:

Ming and poulson have physical strength so they can at least fend off one or two tackles before laying the ball off. Now that pass may be awful but it may not (didn't poulson do a nice pass for the first goal last night?). With suso or pacheco i think that they are both too lightweight and won't be able to fend off any tackles before losing the ball. Yes they will pass the ball better but they are still both relatively new to the league and might not be able to cope with the pressure
 
There is no point in throwing in a slight 17-19yold kid in a team full of crap pro's who can't pass the ball five yards at the moment expecting pass and move. It's not going to happen.

A 16/17 year old Fabregas was able to come into the Arsenal team and perform because they played a style of football that suited him and on the whole were performing. The same goes for Ramsey, Wilshere and other players.

How good would Wilshere look in our side if he spent half the time chasing after the ball and passing it to a player only to see a) the ball come back to him straight away (only this time the opposition have managed to get more players onto him) or b) possession lost altogether.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43605.msg1251648#msg1251648 date=1294912322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251582#msg1251582 date=1294908293]


12. kenny
it was a poor team selection but kenny has been in the door five minutes. we're just above the drop zone so now isn't the time for experiements but he would have learnt things from yesterday, no doubt about it.
it will take time for kenny to get across his methods and instill confidence in the team because the players are badly lacking confidence but if anyone can get them playing as a unit again, it's kenny but it will take time. hopefully we'll see less games where there are square pegs in round holes.

I also think kenny had one eye on the derby which giving how many points we are above the drop zone is a little crazy. we are desparate for points. EVERY game is important now. fuck rest, if they are fit to play then play them get the 3 points and then worry about the consequences later.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be difficult to criticise him as he has only just arrived and never seen Poulson and Lucas playing in midfield together before :🙂

regards
[/quote]

he has seen them but he hasn't seen them in HIS system using HIS tactics.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=43605.msg1251653#msg1251653 date=1294912668]
There is no point in throwing in a slight 17-19yold kid in a team full of crap pro's who can't pass the ball five yards at the moment expecting pass and move. It's not going to happen.

A 16/17 year old Fabregas was able to come into the Arsenal team and perform because they played a style of football that suited him and on the whole were performing. The same goes for Ramsey, Wilshere and other players.

How good would Wilshere look in our side if he spent half the time chasing after the ball and passing it to a player only to see a) the ball come back to him straight away (only this time the opposition have managed to get more players onto him) or b) possession lost altogether.


[/quote]

no isn't the time. these are the formative years of patches and suso and badly dented confidence in a struggle team could (and probably would) ruin them.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251690#msg1251690 date=1294915804]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43605.msg1251648#msg1251648 date=1294912322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43605.msg1251582#msg1251582 date=1294908293]


12. kenny
it was a poor team selection but kenny has been in the door five minutes. we're just above the drop zone so now isn't the time for experiements but he would have learnt things from yesterday, no doubt about it.
it will take time for kenny to get across his methods and instill confidence in the team because the players are badly lacking confidence but if anyone can get them playing as a unit again, it's kenny but it will take time. hopefully we'll see less games where there are square pegs in round holes.

I also think kenny had one eye on the derby which giving how many points we are above the drop zone is a little crazy. we are desparate for points. EVERY game is important now. fuck rest, if they are fit to play then play them get the 3 points and then worry about the consequences later.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be difficult to criticise him as he has only just arrived and never seen Poulson and Lucas playing in midfield together before :🙂

regards
[/quote]

he has seen them but he hasn't seen them in HIS system using HIS tactics.
[/quote]

Most people who have seen them realise that no matter who is picking them or how they are asked to play isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=43605.msg1251627#msg1251627 date=1294910878]
I haven't seen all the fuss in Shelvey yet.
[/quote]

I think it's a case of, he's not Poulsen or Lucas. He has looked ok, but I'd like to see him get a start so he can actually show what he can do.
 
I'm all for blooding Suso on the left or right wing. Hell, I'd play Ince or Bruna (he looked useful against Sunderland) there if need be.

No-one, I mean No-one can be more ineffectual than an off-form Kuyt on the flank.

Pacheco (he's 20 now) deserves a shot in behind Torres floating around whilst Gerrard is out.

ps - Suso is a deceptively stocky little fella with short stumpy legs. They'll do well to bully him.
 
Destroying our midfield by selling the class players we had in there has done massive massive damage to the team. We need that defensive shield in the middle to enable us to compete and win games, tellingly for me when Adams accidentally elbowed Lucas (who played well IMO) in the second half and Lucas started complaining and crying about it I got to thinking we have got no tough or imposing players with a bit of grit and nastiness in them and we need that... we were pushovers in midfield last night.

On the plus side the effort from all was clear and the sleeves were rolled up and i doubt very much if anybody would have thought it was unfair if we had have got a point....

But fucking hell against Blackpool a point!!

Investment is needed in the side and confidence, I know Kenny can give the latter im just praying the FSG do the former. Even though we lost it was nice to see that finally after 2 whole years of bickering and royally fucking things up we are at last united fans and team together, as the song says i'm sure even in the middle of this the shittest storm ive ever seen as a Liverpool fan there will be a golden sky at the end of it.
 
Interesting thread, here's a few of my thoughts:

First off, we actually looked more attacking-minded and interested in winning than in any other away game all Season. At least untill every last bit of confidence were blown away as they equalized. The first ten minutes were promising then it became worse.

My main area of critic on behalf of last nights performance goes out to the trio in behind Torres.

Kuyt, Raul and Jova.

Anyone who'd dare to watch the game again tell me, did they give away possession more than a hundred times or more than a thousand times?

This is NOT me excusing on behalf of the rest of the team let alone our pedestrian central midfielders, but their constant loss of possession increased the pressure on every one else constantly.
Jova easily the biggest cluprit but he's kind of excused as he wouldn't even be able to sit on the bench for the best teams in the Danish Superleague. He's one of the worst footballers I've seen in a Liverpool-shirt ever. He's got pace. That's it. He makes Babel look like freaking Einstein in terms of game-intelligence for starters. Kuyt and Raul however should be really ashamed with themselves putting in shifts likes that, they were terrible and looked like terrible footballers.

I know Poulsen is 'shite' on here by deafult but he was still one of the only players last night in midfield able to actually pass the ball to a team-mate Whilst he's much more cumbersome than I ever would've feared and not one for the future, he wasn't that bad last night I would've thought. The problem here is, when alongside Lucas, there's no-one in midfield capable of leaving a man, moving into the forward positions nor hit the killer pass. They are to alike and one should be benched against Everton.

Agger should've gone in with much more grit in his easy tackle for their first goal, but was otherwise probably our most influential player in our buuld-up play. I would like to see him make a few more surging runs however as it's always worrying for the opposition with that extra man in attack.

Skrtel and Johnson were again both very poor. Both having immense trouble marking a man and twice Skrtel lost out on rather easy but vital headers inside our own area - one led to their second goal and was mainly down to his awful timing. That goal however was mostly Johnson fault as he just stood and watched football as their striker scored enjoying all the space in the world. Really, really poor defending.

Anyways, a new seriously vital game come Sunday, against Everton, and I'd be keeping my fingers crossed we'll see something like this:

............................................REINA............................................
JOHNSON................KELLY............AGGER......................AURELIO
...................................POULSEN................................................
COLE................................RAUL...........................................MAXI
..............................PACHECO............TORRES.............................

Wouldn't mind Babel in there either if fit. We need players capable of retaining possession as it's far to damaging to constantly be on the chase. Since Masher's gone we don't even have any real good chaser any ways so it's kind of a must.

Suso on the bench please. Perhaps even Saric as well.
 
Poulsen was shit man. TWICE, yes TWICE, Charlie 'Aaron Lennon' Adams blew by him and he couldn't do anything. Lucas is BETTER than him because he's faster, better in the air and can make the same passes sideways too. He's not good enough for Liverpool's 1st 11 in any era - maybe from the Tom Watson era. He should be on our bench until season's end where he'll get flogged off. Horrific signing by Roy ... Absolutely horrific.

I know Poulsen is 'shite' on here by deafult but he was still one of the only players last night in midfield able to actually pass the ball to an opponent.

Ha ha I know you didn't mean this, but it's funny nonetheless.
 
KHL I know you would like to see that team. I wouldnt mind seeing it myself ( apart from poulsen). But there is absolutely ZERO chance of it happenning
 
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