Ming

[tony]

From reading through the forum it would seem that some thought he had a good game and the general consensus appears to be that he was okish on Saturday.
I thought he was shocking. Sure he saved from Vardy and is more receptive to coming off his line, but his flap nearly cost us in the first half and for me the first goal was 33% his fault ( the other thirds on Lucas and the ref ). He rolled that ball so slowly that any defender would likely have the opposition bearing down on them.
It's his passing that does me though. Time and time again he picks the wrong pass to a player under pressure, which heavily contributes to the tension in the stadium. Sometimes he treats it like a ball of lava he needs to get rid of asap other times he will dally on the ball. For an intelligent person he appears to be troubling thick at reading what is going on out on the pitch, when the team obviously needs a little breather instead of dropping on the ball to eke a few seconds of recovery time he will get rid quickly, often before we have got back into formation. He is a total liability, Karius would have to be pretty bad not to improve the team, especially playing out from the back.

 

[Mors]

Hopefully Karius isn't far away at all now. I'd be quite pleased to see him in there for the Chelski game.

 

[manwithnoname]

From reading through the forum it would seem that some thought he had a good game and the general consensus appears to be that he was okish on Saturday.
I thought he was shocking. Sure he saved from Vardy and is more receptive to coming off his line, but his flap nearly cost us in the first half and for me the first goal was 33% his fault ( the other thirds on Lucas and the ref ). He rolled that ball so slowly that any defender would likely have the opposition bearing down on them.
It's his passing that does me though. Time and time again he picks the wrong pass to a player under pressure, which heavily contributes to the tension in the stadium. Sometimes he treats it like a ball of lava he needs to get rid of asap other times he will dally on the ball. For an intelligent person he appears to be troubling thick at reading what is going on out on the pitch, when the team obviously needs a little breather instead of dropping on the ball to eke a few seconds of recovery time he will get rid quickly, often before we have got back into formation. He is a total liabilty, Karius would have to be pretty bad not to inprove the team, especially playing out from he back.

Yeah, exactly this. He can play 90 minutes and do three amazing things and three really fucking stupid ones. I don't want to "notice" our goalkeeper, but with Mignolet, your eye is drawn to him - as is the entire crowd's, and all the players - because he often just makes a stupid decision with his distribution or decision-making.

You can hear the intake of breath, and feel the increase in tension and heartrate.

Even ignoring his tendency to make mistakes that cost us goals - the "unforced errors" - he's not reliable enough and creates the wrong sort of tension.

Same reason I don't like Sakho and never have. All that passing completion percentages bollocks and cult hero status is worthless when you're falling on your arse and doing ill-advised fucking dragbacks in the area as a centre-half.

The opposition always think they have a chance - and therefore have a more positive mentality and take more chances, make more runs - when that sort of player is on the pitch.

 

[The Nomad]

Yeah, exactly this. He can play 90 minutes and do three amazing things and three really fucking stupid ones. I don't want to "notice" our goalkeeper, but with Mignolet, your eye is drawn to him - as is the entire crowd's, and all the players - because he often just makes a stupid decision with his distribution or decision-making.

You can hear the intake of breath, and feel the increase in tension and heartrate.

Even ignoring his tendency to make mistakes that cost us goals - the "unforced errors" - he's not reliable enough and creates the wrong sort of tension.

Same reason I don't like Sakho and never have. All that passing completion percentages bollocks and cult hero status is worthless when you're falling on your arse and doing ill-advised fucking dragbacks in the area as a centre-half.

The opposition always think they have a chance - and therefore have a more positive mentality and take more chances, make more runs - when that sort of player is on the pitch.

^ This...

Same for me with GlenJo and Alberto Moreno.

 

[manwithnoname]

^ This...

Same for me with GlenJo and Alberto Moreno.

Yeah, I still give Moreno more of a pass given my weakness for jet-heeled fullbacks, and also because FB is now a more "attacking" position than ever, but still, any player that makes the opposition think they have a chance, and is capable of instilling belief that we will always concede - because we ALWAYS fucking do - isn't good news.

 

[tony]

Headline from LFCTV today

Boss delighted with 'keeper options after Karius return


I bet he fucking is, be even more delighted when Ming is on the bench

 

[Squiggles]

All the above is true.

Klopp knows all this though and, like Rodgers before him, hasn't instructed him to take the safety first approach.

I'm fine with ball playing defenders and advanced full backs and all the other modern day bollocks, but I'd much rather see a keeper put his foot through it.

I suppose our dwarfish CM options at the minute isn't likely to win the header, but it would go some way to reduce tensions at the back and in the stadium.

 

[Pesam]

I hope Klopp replaces Ming with Karius immediately and doesn't wait until Ming drops another clanger before doing so.

 

[tony]

All the above is true.

Klopp knows all this though and, like Rodgers before him, hasn't instructed him to take the safety first approach.

I'm fine with ball playing defenders and advanced full backs and all the other modern day bollocks, but I'd much rather see a keeper put his foot through it.

I suppose our dwarfish CM options at the minute isn't likely to win the header, but it would go some way to reduce tensions at the back and in the stadium.

Vision in my head of the fans in the main or centenary ducking as he wacks it!

 

[Red Bird]

Yeah, exactly this. He can play 90 minutes and do three amazing things and three really fucking stupid ones. I don't want to "notice" our goalkeeper, but with Mignolet, your eye is drawn to him - as is the entire crowd's, and all the players - because he often just makes a stupid decision with his distribution or decision-making.

You can hear the intake of breath, and feel the increase in tension and heartrate.

Even ignoring his tendency to make mistakes that cost us goals - the "unforced errors" - he's not reliable enough and creates the wrong sort of tension.

Same reason I don't like Sakho and never have. All that passing completion percentages bollocks and cult hero status is worthless when you're falling on your arse and doing ill-advised fucking dragbacks in the area as a centre-half.

The opposition always think they have a chance - and therefore have a more positive mentality and take more chances, make more runs - when that sort of player is on the pitch.

+1

 

[doctor_mac]

So according to Brendan's all time favourite stopper, Chris 'Crumbly' Kirkland we should start Karius ahead of Ming for the Chelseas game. Intrigued? Read on to find out why........





Former Liverpool keeper Chris Kirkland believes Simon Mignolet should be dropped for Friday night’s Premier League clash with Chelsea.
The ex-England shot-stopper says the time is right to hand summer signing Loris Karius his debut at Stamford Bridge following the young German's recovery from a broken hand.
“You can’t be eased in at a club like Liverpool,” Kirkland told the 5Times podcast.
“The best thing is to get out there and get playing. I’m looking forward to seeing him.
“I would have thrown Karius in last Saturday. If he was brought in as No 1 and he’s training and ready then throw him in. You can’t really build up to games in the Premier League.
“The rumours are that he’s been told he’s the No 1 and if those rumours are true then he has to play.

“I’ve seen bits of him. He looks very cool and calm on the ball, good with his feet and confident in his own 18-yard box. He comes and takes things so hopefully he will be a good fit for Liverpool.
“If he’s ready now after a couple of weeks training then he needs to get to the real thing. Chelsea away, if he has a fantastic game everyone will be happy.”
Kirkland, who made 45 appearances for Liverpool between 2001 and 2004, says Mignolet was partly to blame for the goal Jurgen Klopp’s side conceded in last weekend’s 4-1 win over Leicester City.

Shinji Okazaki encroaches into the penalty area before the ball reaches Lucas
Lucas Leiva’s error put it on a plate for Jamie Vardy but Kirkland criticised Mignolet for giving the ball to the Brazilian in the first place.
“So much is made of playing it out from the back now,” he added.
“I understand that but there are times to do it. Passing the ball along your own byline is not the time to do it, I don’t care whether you are 4-0 or 5-0 up.

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“It’s taking unnecessary risks. You might get away with it a few times but you will get caught with it.
“We had the same situation at Wigan under Roberto Martinez. He always wanted us to play it out from the back and in the end we got relegated. The better teams just picked us off.
“Against Leicester, it was an unnecessary goal to concede. It came from something that shouldn’t have happened.

Simon Mignolet looks on following an injury during the Premier League match between Liverpool and Leicester City at Anfield on September 10, 2016 (Photo by Michael Regan/Getty Images)
“If the manager has told Mignolet to do that then maybe he has to do it.
“But if he hasn’t said it to him then you have to use common sense. He’s experienced enough and has been in the Premier League long enough to know that with the pace Leicester have up front you are going to get caught.”
Kirkland believes the battle between Mignolet and Karius over the coming months will bring out the best in the two keepers.

Jerzy Dudek and Chris Kirkland sign for Liverpool FC
The 35-year-old found himself in a similar position back in 2001 when he was signed by Gerard Houllier on the same day as Jerzy Dudek.
“We used to push each other loads in training. Jerzy was fantastic when he came to the club,” Kirkland added.
“I was worried I wasn’t going to get in. Gerard told me to bide my time and learn from him.
“There was never any confusion. I knew I’d be No 2 for a certain period of time. I was happy to learn off Jerzy and Joe Corrigan the coach.
“I’m sure Mignolet and Karius will get on. Liverpool needed to get someone with experience to help the young keepers and that’s why signing Alex Manninger was a great move.
“He’s probably not going to play but he can pass on all his experience.”

 

[Modo]

I'm not a big Mignolet detractor but I'm not his biggest fan either.
I think he's done well these past few games, I really don't think he's done anything to warrant a bench role atm.

 

[gkmacca]

I assume Karius is going to be good, but that's more down to hope than knowledge. But Klopp needs to get his timing and judgement absolutely right about this. If he changes keepers, he needs to stick with the change. There can't be any doubt.

 

[Frogfish]

I hope Klopp replaces Ming with Karius immediately and doesn't wait until Ming drops another clanger before doing so.

Exactly what I've been saying but some think a good keeper needs to be led gently down the garden path. He's not an U21 stepping up.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Exactly what I've been saying but some think a good keeper needs to be led gently down the garden path. He's not an U21 stepping up.

I think that's dismissing the fact he's just come back from a fairly bad injury without giving it enough weight.

Were he fully fit I'd have him like a shot instead of Mignolet, but putting an out of match practice keeper in for a league game & potentially damaging his confidence & the confidence of the defence in him isn't ideal.

 

[Oncy]

I think putting Karius in agame of this size would be a massive error.
It could be decided by one goal, if he made an error in that game it could kill his confidence.
Better at home against someone crap

 

[Frogfish]

I think putting Karius in agame of this size would be a massive error.
It could be decided by one goal, if he made an error in that game it could kill his confidence.
Better at home against someone crap

I imagine his finger has had a far more vigorous workout in training than he would ever get in a match. Added to which I doubt Klopp would have even had him on the bench last week if he wasn't happy with his fitness.

I forget which keeper it was but one of them said they all have to have massive egos and making the occasional mistake is just water off a duck's back (except Ming's it seems) !

 

[doctor_mac]

Yes, this guy doesn't seem to lack confidence. I'm coming round to the idea of flinging him in.

 

[juniormember]

The lad Karius always seems to be super confident. An error against the Chavs won't destroy him.
I can't stand the sight of Mignolet's scared shitless expression on his face, I can't stand his thick as fuck distribution, I can't stand his miscontrolled kicks, can't stand his weak kicks, can't stand his indecisiveness, can't stand how slow he is.

Don't like his nose either.

 

[gkmacca]

Confidence isn't any kind of guarantee of not making a hash of it. When Brucie arrived he immediately announced he was after Clemence's place. Super confident. Then he got the chance and spent much of that first season giving everyone terrifying frights with his bizarre decisions. So great that Karius is confident but I still wouldn't just throw him on in a big game like this.

 

[manwithnoname]

Maybe Bruce helped spread the rumours that led Clemence to leave for "personal reasons".

Or something

 

[Woland]

I can't believe there's even a debate on this. 'What if Karius makes a mistake?'.. Well that would mean he's made about three less than the useless piece of shit Ming would have done.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I can't believe there's even a debate on this. 'What if Karius makes a mistake?'.. Well that would mean he's made about three less than the useless piece of shit Ming would have done.

Exactly. What if Ming makes a mistake? Which we know has a high probability? What then?
Just start Karius.

 

[Glen C]

I'm not a big Mignolet detractor but I'm not his biggest fan either.
I think he's done well these past few games, I really don't think he's done anything to warrant a bench role atm.

My issue with Ming (ignoring the clangers he's done which have left me with zero confidence in him) is that he makes the saves you expect a goalkeeper to make but nothing out of the ordinary..

 

[tony]

Sure he makes the odd save but it's the distribution though isn't it. He has a large responsibility for the defence looking shaky, his decision making is shocking. I don't get this big game argument either, are away games to B Dortmund or Bayern easy low pressure games for a German keeper?

 

[Modo]

My issue with Ming (ignoring the clangers he's done which have left me with zero confidence in him) is that he makes the saves you expect a goalkeeper to make but nothing out of the ordinary..

What? Ming can make super saves. Like the one recently against Leicester.

 

[Modo]

None of us know what's going on during training. Karius might be impressive, but ideally his debut should be in a home game after he's fully fit.

 

[willby]

You just know Chelsea will target Ming; Costa esp, and his sidekick Oscar are experts in diving around the box. Having Karius on the other hand would be like having a cat among pigeons. He's not afraid to come out of his line and tackle. Ok, i may be laying it on a little thick, but at least he does come out of his line..

 

[carlv]

I don't get the argument of starting in a home game, where he is potentially less likely to be called upon, ie next home game is Hull then Utd, how will this help him..

If we go back to the end of last season we have now gone 6 games without a clean sheet the longest period for 4 years, and Mignolet is a major part of the problem. He should have done better with the Spurs goal he seemed to turn his back and was beaten on the near post (not for the first time), and also should not have played it to Lucas, admittedly Lucas should have done better but his cause wasn't helped by being closed down quicker than he should of been with the Leicester playing going through the box.

The quicker we start with that back 4 along with Karius the better in the long run for building the understanding and hopefully their will be no rotation.

 

[mark1975]

My issue with Ming (ignoring the clangers he's done which have left me with zero confidence in him) is that he makes the saves you expect a goalkeeper to make but nothing out of the ordinary..

I'm not a fan of Ming really in the slightest, but his biggest asset is his shot stopping, he's made some cracking saves this season so far.