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Meanwhile Man Utd....

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[quote author=ILD link=topic=42192.msg1191650#msg1191650 date=1286540242]
United haven't signed a 'marque' player if that is the correct term since Berbatov.

Yes they signed a few players for 17 million, (Anderson, Nani, Valencia) but i'll take that any day over them having the ability to splash the Ronaldo cash. We could have been looking at player's of Villa's ilk, or even a Kun Aquero.

Hopefully, Scholes, Giggs and VDS will pop their clogs soon and see their squad deplete a bit.

[/quote]


and berbatov was explicitly stated to be the last signing of its kind, namely big money on a player over 26. that's now official transfer policy for them.

when man utd are worried about sell-on values and are pocketing £80m from the sale of their best player i don't know how anyone deny that they're in straitened circs.

the real problem for utd is that the glazers have no desire and no need to sell - there's no realistic hope of them going while utd are still turning huge profits, unless the supporters can come up with a hugely inflated offer to tempt them to sell, but we'd be talking maybe £1.5bn here - not going to happen.
 
It's going to be challenging for Fergie to leave behind a really strong first team, though. I hope he quits while he's ahead.

A lot of good players will need replacing after this year and it doesn't appear as if they have loads of money to do it.

I want them to sink so much, but whilst Fergie is still in charge, they will always be up the top end of the table.
 
The timings a bitch, utd are there for the taking and were nowhere near ready.

Hopefully chelsea can hold them off till slur alex calls it a day/hell gobbles up old trafford
 
After Matt Busby retired, he stuck around on the board and a succession of managers who tried to follow him failed to escape his very long shadow, which led to them slipping off the top for a full quarter-century. With any luck Ferguson will be just as persistent, and he'll certainly be an even harder act to follow.
 
Whisky always did his best to destroy any trace of Busby's rule though.

He was ruthless in that regard; as was Paisley, in all honesty.
 
They spent the best part of £20 million on two massive risks in Smalling and Bebe. I don't think the end is as nigh as some of you think. It is Man Utd afterall, they've sold their soul to the devil. They can still afford to spunk a large amount on risky potential. If that £20 million was absolutely vital they would have spent it on an established star. In my opinion of course.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42192.msg1191797#msg1191797 date=1286552470]
Whisky always did his best to destroy any trace of Busby's rule though.

He was ruthless in that regard; as was Paisley, in all honesty.
[/quote]

Paisley had quite a nasty streak actually. In addition to getting the board to act over Shanks (which sadly did have to be done) his CV includes thumping a pensioner fan who was giving him grief one day, and being instrumental in Aldo being eased out some time before he should have had to go. Paisley's achievements were beyond criticism, but his behaviour wasn't always.
 
meh, The Indian in me is concentrating on the 'pre-tax' of their pre-tax loss. Maybe they just got clever accountants who don't want any monies going to the tax man ?
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42192.msg1191873#msg1191873 date=1286567195]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42192.msg1191797#msg1191797 date=1286552470]
Whisky always did his best to destroy any trace of Busby's rule though.

He was ruthless in that regard; as was Paisley, in all honesty.
[/quote]

Paisley had quite a nasty streak actually. In addition to getting the board to act over Shanks (which sadly did have to be done) his CV includes thumping a pensioner fan who was giving him grief one day, and being instrumental in Aldo being eased out some time before he should have had to go. Paisley's achievements were beyond criticism, but his behaviour wasn't always.
[/quote]

Can you go into a bit more detail, Jules?

I've never heard any of the above before.
 
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=42192.msg1191900#msg1191900 date=1286577501]
meh, The Indian in me is concentrating on the 'pre-tax' of their pre-tax loss. Maybe they just got clever accountants who don't want any monies going to the tax man ?


[/quote]

An analysis of cash flow might show a better picture of the health of the club
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42192.msg1191904#msg1191904 date=1286580146]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42192.msg1191873#msg1191873 date=1286567195]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42192.msg1191797#msg1191797 date=1286552470]
Whisky always did his best to destroy any trace of Busby's rule though.

He was ruthless in that regard; as was Paisley, in all honesty.
[/quote]

Paisley had quite a nasty streak actually. In addition to getting the board to act over Shanks (which sadly did have to be done) his CV includes thumping a pensioner fan who was giving him grief one day, and being instrumental in Aldo being eased out some time before he should have had to go. Paisley's achievements were beyond criticism, but his behaviour wasn't always.
[/quote]

Can you go into a bit more detail, Jules?

I've never heard any of the above before.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about the latter two instances, but Shankly used to pop over to Anfield all the time after he retired.
Couldnt blame him of course, it was his life.

But Paisley saw this as interference,since it got to a point where the players started calling him 'Bob' and Shankly 'Boss'.

Paisley got the board to prevent Shankly form coming to see the players, and his Anfield visits were mainly in the stands.

We get this image of Paisley as a jolly sort and Shankly as a tough guy,but that was only part of the story. Paisley even regarded Shankly as a major reason why we suffered in the early 70's; because he refused to dismantle the '60s team that had done so much for us even though they were getting on a bit. He loved them too much to do it,they were his kids.

It's a bit painful seeing this considering he was without doubt our finest ever servant, and he couldnt switch off even afer he retired..He's probably still screaming at us from heaven.
 
i thought shankly brought in loads of young players likes hughes, toshak, keegan, heighway, lloyd and clemence precisely because of that ageing 1960s team, and had fairly swift success with them?
 
well obviously i wasn't there, so i can't say how much those guys played, but i think most of them were regulars. they all definitely arived under shanks as well, i think about 1970.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42192.msg1191904#msg1191904 date=1286580146]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42192.msg1191873#msg1191873 date=1286567195]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42192.msg1191797#msg1191797 date=1286552470]
Whisky always did his best to destroy any trace of Busby's rule though.

He was ruthless in that regard; as was Paisley, in all honesty.
[/quote]

Paisley had quite a nasty streak actually. In addition to getting the board to act over Shanks (which sadly did have to be done) his CV includes thumping a pensioner fan who was giving him grief one day, and being instrumental in Aldo being eased out some time before he should have had to go. Paisley's achievements were beyond criticism, but his behaviour wasn't always.
[/quote]

Can you go into a bit more detail, Jules?

I've never heard any of the above before.
[/quote]

Avvy's pretty much on the money on the business with Shanks, who retired too early and came to realise that within a fairly short time of leaving. Probably to try and help himself deal with that realisation, he kept turning up at Melwood and training with the players, who kept calling him "Boss" and Paisley "Bob", as they had when Shanks was in charge and Paisley was his (totally loyal) no.2. Paisley felt that this couldn't continue now that he was in the hot seat himself, so the board ultimately asked Shanks to back off. Shanks was very hurt and his book displays considerable bitterness at "those people" (I don't know if he ever specified whether he included Paisley himself in that) for doing what they did, but - with real regret, as I loved the man and still revere him as the giant on whose shoulders we all stand - I don't think they had a choice.

Paisley's John Prescott moment came one day when a pensioner fan was having a pop at him about something, and Paisley dotted him one. I can't recall whether it was at the ground or away from it, but word got out before it could be hushed up completely.

By the time Aldo arrived, Paisley was on the board and, as you can imagine, held a lot of sway. He was persuaded by the media to go public with the view that the signing wasn't one he'd have made (when I recovered from my surprise at the time I felt this looked like part of a strategy to fetch Rushy back from Italy, but none of us will ever really know). Aldo, being Aldo, wasn't going to let it ride and gave HIS view about it to the media as well. Big mistake - as a board member, and probably a uniquely powerful one, Paisley was in a position to have a direct effect on his employment. Rushy duly did come back (though when he did it became clear that, though still a good player, he wasn't quite the assassin of old any more) and Aldo was eased out to Real Sociedad, much to his surprise and disappointment.

As far as those players go, not all were signed at the same time. As far as I remember, Crazy Horse arrived in the late 60s; Keegan, Heighway and Clemence came in the early 70s; Tosh came in the mid-70s after we tried to sign Frank Worthington but he failed the medical. Only Hughes was around at the same time as the first great team was finally reaching the end of its shelf-life. The others were part of the new wave which, to be fair, Shanks got started. In fact we had already won the title with the new team by the time Shanks went, though Paisley was probably right that the change could have been introduced sooner.
 
J, didn't Frank Worthington fail a couple of medicals with us, due to getting bladdered the night before, at which point Shanks, disgusted with the lack of respect, told him to sling his hook?
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42192.msg1192017#msg1192017 date=1286623800]
J, didn't Frank Worthington fail a couple of medicals with us, due to getting bladdered the night before, at which point Shanks, disgusted with the lack of respect, told him to sling his hook?
[/quote]

Not just the one night, old pal. Worthingon failed the first medical (something to do with his heart) but Shanks was so keen to sign him - and the guy did have terrific skill - that he sent Worthington away for a fortnight's R and R before re-running the tests. Worthington drank, smoked and shagged his way through said fortnight and duly failed the second medical as well, at which point Shanks had indeed had enough and turned his attention to Tosh instead.
 
just a minor point JJ, but toshack was definitely signed early 70s, because i remember reading about how he only started in the 73 uefa cup final 1st leg because the original game was abandoned, and in that time shankly had observed that their defence was weak in the air - toshack then came in and he and keegan had a field day.
 
You're right, peter. I remember those games well, as we played Moenchengladbach and I was working in Germany in my gap year at the time.
 
Classic commentary from Coleman in that game too. None of your mass hysteria "unbelievable" (is it really?) type commentary.

Good old "Toshack.... Keegan.... 1-0" etc.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42192.msg1192039#msg1192039 date=1286626998]
just a minor point JJ, but toshack was definitely signed early 70s, because i remember reading about how he only started in the 73 uefa cup final 1st leg because the original game was abandoned, and in that time shankly had observed that their defence was weak in the air - toshack then came in and he and keegan had a field day.
[/quote]

I think you're right, he was also one of Rush's idols so probably wasnt included in that team Paisley thought should have been dismantled..

I really can't remember, but I think it was the likes of Byrne and Yeats?
 
Most united fans in the pub have a good laugh but don't want us going out of business as they enjoy the rivalry etc.

I on the other hand would be fucking delighted if they disappeared from existance.

Views?
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42192.msg1194911#msg1194911 date=1287003280]
Most united fans in the pub have a good laugh but don't want us going out of business as they enjoy the rivalry etc.

I on the other hand would be fucking delighted if they disappeared from existance.

Views?
[/quote]

Tough one.

I hate them, but am friends with many life-long supporters who, though they had a slag, took no real joy from the fact that my beloved Reds might actually cease to exist.
 
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