Matheus Nunes

[Farkmaster]

Although I didn't rate him 1 bit, I'm starting to see now the grit and importance Gini was to this team.

He won us a champions league.

I've spent years on here in happy argument with people about what a Klopp midfielder is. I didn't think I'd seemingly be in an argument with the club itself... but Wijnaldum was the perfect Klopp midfielder and we've never replaced him. The thing about a Klopp midfielder is you'll never really be appreciated, you'll never shine, and it will not be fun for you. The fact that people rate Thiago so highly because he plays such pretty football is the proof of this.

Wijnaldum has endurance, he's athletic enough to recover, he has far better than average technique and is difficult to dispossess, he is safe with the ball in possession in general. He's very disciplined off the ball and follows triggers to press to the book. And, he was durable. Played all the time.

When we have two players that fit that description, and we're fucking ace, we can throw on players like Harvey Elliot, or search for that KDB player that people think we need even though we don't play anything like city. Until we have them though, players halfway good as Wijnaldum are more valuable to our play than any of these other players, including silky types like Thiago, because we aren't going to outscore the utter fucking pain we're going to be in.

If we don't bring a midfielder in it's going to be an ugly rest of the season, it may well be anyway. I don't think we'll get fourth either way, but something this pointless is hard to watch.

 

[Hyena]

The thing is, a player like Gini shouldn't be that hard to replace. Yet somehow we've managed to fuck it up.

 

[binomial]

Thiago is a fabulous player and twice the player Gini is tbf, it's not just the pretty football he does put in a shift for the team as well just a shame we signed him during his twilight years.

No one ever question Gini's stamina or his durability in terms of fitness but many would argue on the ball he was very passive and slowed down a lot of our attacks.

Now why Klopp hasn't ever thought it'd be a good idea to this very day to bring in a midfielder or 2 is beyond me....the 40m spent on Gakpo, good young talent but did we really need him?

 

[binomial]

The thing is, a player like Gini shouldn't be that hard to replace. Yet somehow we've managed to fuck it up.

We've not fucked it up, we've just totally neglected it.

Then again a lot of fans will make the arguement this is the same midfield that 6 months ago were winning 2 finals, finishing on 90+ points and getting to a CL final.

 

[Farkmaster]

Thiago is a fabulous player and twice the player Gini is tbf, it's not just the pretty football he does put in a shift for the team as well just a shame we signed him during his twilight years.

No one ever question Gini's stamina or his durability in terms of fitness but many would argue on the ball he was very passive and slowed down a lot of our attacks.

Now why Klopp hasn't ever thought it'd be a good idea to this very day to bring in a midfielder or 2 is beyond me....the 40m spent on Gakpo, good young talent but did we really need him?

I don't think he's twice the player Gini is in the league, for this team, but I agree he's much better in general. And I'd rather have gini from 2 years ago than him, right now. Thiago is great for a team that is humming and in possession all the time. Off the ball and in transition he's nowhere near as good as Gini was, and I don't think he wants to commit forward because he knows he will be sprinting back and can't make it. Thiago was a final piece of the puzzle signing but we're missing several pieces now.

 

[StevieM]

I think this is the perfect time to start another Gini debate.

Can we do one about Trent in midfield as well???

 

[binomial]

I think this is the perfect time to start another Gini debate.

Can we do one about Trent in midfield as well???

Tbf that 1 could well do with a bump...doesn't seem like such a bad idea now as it was in the summer.

 

[Markeh]

I was going to suggest him on the right of a 442 for the second half last night

 

[binomial]

I don't think he's twice the player Gini is in the league, for this team, but I agree he's much better in general. And I'd rather have gini from 2 years ago than him, right now. Thiago is great for a team that is humming and in possession all the time. Off the ball and in transition he's nowhere near as good as Gini was, and I don't think he wants to commit forward because he knows he will be sprinting back and can't make it. Thiago was a final piece of the puzzle signing but we're missing several pieces now.

Gini from 2020/2021 over him now? Probably yes tbf only because we lack that type of player. But what about if we had Fab and Hendo from 2/3 years ago as well? then you'd rather have Thiago of now. The great thing about Fab Gini Hendo/Milner was they all complimented each other very well in the work horse department....they all knew where they had to be and which side of the pitch to cover in another's absence. Midfield we have now have no co-ordination, they're all moving in the same direction, all led astray, there is no cohesion with one another.

You say Thiago is great for a humming and possession team.....well isn't that what we are?

 

[MaBigTip]

I'm not having Thiago being twice the player Gini is... He's better with the ball at his feet... but in every other way he isn't close to what Gini is/was, including keeping the ball... and in midfield, a pressing high intensity midfield at that, designed to cover attacking fullbacks those other factors are more important imo.

Gini could play 3 or 4 positions to a high level... and he was an absolute monster against the best teams and in the biggest games... Thiago is almost the opposite with regards to that. Gini knitted the whole team together in completely different way to Thiago and I think anyone who has played football at any bit of a high level understands the value of someone who can almost always be around the ball as Gini was...

One of the things everyone agrees is that our press is a shadow of what it was. He, Mane, Firmino and a younger Henderson were the backbone to that... and then as almost a footnote there is the difference in end product...

 

[Farkmaster]

You say Thiago is great for a humming and possession team.....well isn't that what we are?

No, we're a conceding possession and getting countered team.

 

[binomial]

No, we're a conceding possession and getting countered team.

On the defensive perhaps, what about going forward?

For me we're far more vulnerable to set pieces and crosses than we are to getting countered.

 

[rurikbird]

The thing is, a player like Gini shouldn't be that hard to replace. Yet somehow we've managed to fuck it up.

This is an interesting question and relies on what’s your understanding of a “Gini role” is. How many midfielders in the league can you name that could play that role at an equal level to Gini of 3 years ago? For me his key attribute was tactical intelligence and discipline - that immediately eliminates something like 95% of other physically strong and technically sound midfielders. He would often cover space to prevent an attack going through that space rather than challenging for the ball directly and many fans interpreted this as “hiding.” But you only need to watch Hendo or Jones trying to play LCM next to Fabinho to see the difference between a player who has an innate understanding of space and how to position themselves to cover for several teammates at once vs one who doesn’t.

I guess my point is, despite a seeming simplicity of his role, a Gini isn’t all that easy to replace - you can replace some elements (physicality, durability, maybe press resistance) easier than others, you can even upgrade on some elements - but it’s not all that easy to find the whole package in one player.

 

[binomial]

A lot of people forget the type of player Gini was before we signed him.

He was a very offensive minded player....played a lot on the wing actually and for Netherlands/Newcastle playing as a secondary striker/attacking midfielder.

No one could envisaged the change of role he ended up playing for us.

 

[bluebell]

I'm not having Thiago being twice the player Gini is... He's better with the ball at his feet... but in every other way he isn't close to what Gini is/was, including keeping the ball... and in midfield, a pressing high intensity midfield at that, designed to cover attacking fullbacks those other factors are more important imo.

Gini could play 3 or 4 positions to a high level... and he was an absolute monster against the best teams and in the biggest games... Thiago is almost the opposite with regards to that. Gini knitted the whole team together in completely different way to Thiago and I think anyone who has played football at any bit of a high level understands the value of someone who can almost always be around the ball as Gini was...

One of the things everyone agrees is that our press is a shadow of what it was. He, Mane, Firmino and a younger Henderson were the backbone to that... and then as almost a footnote there is the difference in end product...

Gini's gone he was over 30 and Mane is gone too, forget about them. We did okay with out Gini... We are missing Diaz and Jota and credit goes to the club for getting Gakpo, but not getting MFs is the real issue. That blame lies with the owners who seem unwilling to find the funds even though we made over £70m, With the increased capacity, FSG I think I read somewhere hope to bring in £115m from attendances from football matches and hosting special events (ie concerts, boxing matches, PPV UFC fights etc)

 

[binomial]

For the life of me can't remember the last boxing fight hosted at Anfield & I doubt many UFC events would be held there either....how they suddenly gonna make that happen?

 

[StevieM]

For the life of me can't remember the last boxing fight hosted at Anfield & I doubt many UFC events would be held there either....how they suddenly gonna make that happen?

Apollo Creed’s son is going to fight at Anfield instead of Goodison from now on.

 

[LarryHagman]

I don't know who's the better player but Thiago brings nowhere near as much to the team as Gini used to.

 

[binomial]

I don't know who's the better player but Thiago brings nowhere near as much to the team as Gini used to.

Thiago is a better player and everyone knows it.

It's understandable Thiago doesn't bring as much seeing as he was signed as a short term option for a modest fee at 29/30 years of age. Gini was 25 and in the prime of his career with a lot more to give.

 

[bluebell]

For the life of me can't remember the last boxing fight hosted at Anfield & I doubt many UFC events would be held there either....how they suddenly gonna make that happen?

Paddy Pimblett has let be known he will have a fight at Anfield. Rolling Stones have already played there, so hosting non-football events shouldn't be hard, and no doubt they'll have sales team that will sell the stadium for hosting non-liverpool football events.

 

[mark1975]

Thiago is a better player and everyone knows it.

It's understandable Thiago doesn't bring as much seeing as he was signed as a short term option for a modest fee at 29/30 years of age. Gini was 25 and in the prime of his career with a lot more to give.

It horses for courses though. Thiago is a luxury we are struggling to justify without the youthful exuberance and industrious qualities he needs alongside him. Gini gave exactly that, he did the donkey work so more technical and creative players could express themselves. We've gone from having a team that functioned around three dogged and domineering midfielders, to a team prancing around a midfield that can barely stand up.

 

[binomial]

It horses for courses though. Thiago is a luxury we are struggling to justify without the youthful exuberance and industrious qualities he needs alongside him. Gini gave exactly that, he did the donkey work so more technical and creative players could express themselves. We've gone from having a team that functioned around three dogged and domineering midfielders, to a team prancing around a midfield that can barely stand up.

Any midfield would struggle without someone there to do the donkey work.

KDB needs the likes of Gundogan and Rodri/Fernandinho
Modric needs the likes of Casemiro and Kroos
Odegaard needs the likes of Xhaka and Partey

These luxuries would all struggle without people alongside them, this is why you need the right balance in midfield that compliments each other.

We don't have that, it's not a "Thiago thing"

Thiago finds himself caught between crosshairs, whether to push, whether to drop back because our entire midfield lack co-ordination.

Show of hands, who thought Thiago would come in to do the donkey work Gini left behind? He wasn't brought in for that reason. Klopp thought Fab and Hendo could keep it going for few more years, and to their credit they did last season. The decline this season has been 1 no one could've anticipated.

 

[mark1975]

Any midfield would struggle without someone there to do the donkey work.

KDB needs the likes of Gundogan and Rodri/Fernandinho
Modric needs the likes of Casemiro and Kroos
Odegaard needs the likes of Xhaka and Partey

These luxuries would all struggle without people alongside them, this is why you need the right balance in midfield that compliments each other.

We don't have that, it's not a "Thiago thing"

Thiago finds himself caught between crosshairs, whether to push, whether to drop back because our entire midfield lack co-ordination.

Show of hands, who thought Thiago would come in to do the donkey work Gini left behind? He wasn't brought in for that reason. Klopp thought Fab and Hendo could keep it going for few more years, and to their credit they did last season. The decline this season has been 1 no one could've anticipated.

I'm not saying it's an either or, I'm agreeing with you. We need both types of player, and Thiago needs exactly that to flourish.

 

[moron]

I will be honest - was not that impressed with Thiago signing or when his first season and his injuries have not endeared me to him either. But right now - he is the only one that can evade a press, and my God what a one man performance he had as a DM like figure against Leicester ?- in that game I understood the full skills he has as a footballer. For a creative talent he can certainly do the defensive work very well.

 

[binomial]

He can definitely put in a defensive shift, maybe not able to sustain it over a full 90 mins every game but he definitely tries to put in a lot of tackles.

Bit of a shame we haven't been able to see him in a flourishing team and if reports are true, looks as though we still won't fix the midfield this winter.

 

[darkstarexodus]

On the defensive perhaps, what about going forward?

For me we're far more vulnerable to set pieces and crosses than we are to getting countered.

Going forward we offer the sum total of fuckall.

 

[binomial]

Going forward we offer the sum total of fuckall.

Gotta disagree with you on this 1.

We've scored 34 goals in 17 games....only bettered by Arsenal and City.

There are teams in the bottom half who have conceded fewer than us.

Are problems are clear.

Against Forest Leeds and Brentford we have 70-75% possession, someone of Thiago's ability with a team holding that much of the ball should be able to produce more moments of quality in final third.

 

[peekay]

Gotta disagree with you on this 1.

We've scored 34 goals in 17 games....only bettered by Arsenal and City.

There are teams in the bottom half who have conceded fewer than us.

Are problems are clear.

Against Forest Leeds and Brentford we have 70-75% possession, someone of Thiago's ability with a team holding that much of the ball should be able to produce more moments of quality in final third.

That number might be skewed a bit due to our 9-0 win over Bournemouth.

 

[StevieM]

That number might be skewed a bit due to our 9-0 win over Bournemouth.

Not when you take into account me being in the stadium.

 

[peekay]

Not when you take into account me being in the stadium.

So all we need to fix this season's issue is to get you a box at Anfield and have the club take care of all your needs. Might be cheaper than the midfield overhaul?