Mane's Form..

[Frogfish]

Well, that's debatable. Against Chelsea and parts of the game vs Burnley Mane was pretty much losing the ball every time he got it – that's not "effective" by any measure and surely can be improved on. I do agree that even when off form or slower he's still overall a better attacking player than either Jones or Minamino, but only if he adjusts his game accordingly and stops continuously running into blind alleys, which just hurts the team.

Yesterday he gave the ball away 10 times from 40 passes. As you said that's not effective and I'm certain Jones and Minamino, who have better technical skills, wouldn't be so wasteful. So then it comes down, not to pace, but better effectiveness in creation / finishing. Mane is clearly better when on form but we are persisting with him when Minamino (in pre-season) and Jones (last season) have proven skills in these areas.

Mane has often been frustrating in going down trying to win FKs, even with little or no contact, but he's taking it to a new level over the past year, when he's losing a duel, and referees are now rightfully ignoring him. Staying on his feet would help us more than having a player on the deck for no reason.

He hasn't scored against a top team since Chelsea early Oct 2020 (pre his corona infection) unless you count Everton (first match on return, 17-10-20) or Leipzig (10th March). Is long CV affecting him? I'd suggest the club know best in this regard because obviously his training stats would show it yet no mention has been made. If it is then you'd expect Klopp to have made changes until he's over it.

That said he still had 50% goals/assists stat last season (16+9 from 48 matches) so he's far from a liability. It's more a case of, could we do better with someone else in that position?

Overall this seems more like Klopp trying to play Mane into form and not hit his confidence. Is that better for us long term? That will depend on if Mane regains his former effectiveness, but could lead to more dropped points in the short-term. This has now been more than a season of (mostly) mediocrity with barely the odd flashes here and there of the old Mane.

 

[Gary25]

Absolutely love Mane, he's been nothing short of sensational for us since he joined in 2016 but it's not good his current form - a continuation of majority of last season if we're being honest.

The main problem is he appears to have 'lost his legs' so to speak. That burst of pace and mobility has disappeared out of his game and it's quite sad/painful to watch because those were arguably his greatest assets. Don't really know what the solution is but it is of genuine concern now.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I’ve always been a massive Mane fan and at a time had him as more important than Salah. He was poor against Chelsea but let’s not right him off just yet.
It’s still early in the season and he could have heavy legs from pre season.

 

[Frogfish]

I’ve always been a massive Mane fan and at a time had him as more important than Salah. He was poor against Chelsea but let’s not right him off just yet.
It’s still early in the season and he could have heavy legs from pre season.

It isn't just the start of this season ... this is a continuation of what we saw last season. And that has SFA to do with heavy legs - unless he is suffering from Long Covid and as I said, the medical/coaching team should know that should it be the case.

 

[doctor_mac]

We have seen dips in form from Mane before over the years. And the issue is being able to push him to get back to his best. I really don't think he's a spent force. In an ideal world, Ox could have brought something to the table in this position as back up, but lets face it, an out of form Mane would still probably be much more effective. Similarly, I can't see Jones being as effective there either. Our only choice, it seems to me, is to play Jota instead and bring back Bobby in the middle if Mane continues not to produce.

 

[StevieM]

Minamino - maybe we should try him in the left sided attacking midfield position - sort of the mirror of Harvey’s role - where we’ve played Kieta & Henderson.

Might work against deep lying numbers in defence.

Leaves us exposed at the back - however, if it’s Virg and Matip, with Fabs in front and Alison sweeping in behind and the opposition are lumping it up to a lone striker- I fancy out chances.

That’s probs were Gomez pace is handy.

Kieta is still probably our best option in that left attacking mid role. Well.... on paper he is.... and not the paper he seems to be made out of.

Actually - I’m at the point were I’d give Origi a run of games through the centre - fuck sticking him on in a wide role - stand on the sideline with a cricket bat and tell him he’s getting his legs busted unless he puts in a shift.

 

[keniget]

And this is the problem with having no credible backup / alternative options in the squad. You're left with some pretty undesirable options.

Klopp is not going to take the time to play Jones or Minamino out there over Mane because the risk / reward just doesn't add up. He'll continue to try and play Mane into form.

We used to have the same problem with Firmino until we got Jota.

 

[darkstarexodus]

And this is the problem with having no credible backup / alternative options in the squad. You're left with some pretty undesirable options.

Klopp is not going to take the time to play Jones or Minamino out there over Mane because the risk / reward just doesn't add up. He'll continue to try and play Mane into form.

We used to have the same problem with Firmino until we got Jota.

Yep. We can handle one of our forwards off the boil, which has been Bobby for God knows how long - but we can't handle two. Our squad options are such a drop off.

But Mane is really offering not much at the moment. And by "at the moment", I mean for a good year or so.

 

[Red Bird]

Well, that's debatable. Against Chelsea and parts of the game vs Burnley Mane was pretty much losing the ball every time he got it – that's not "effective" by any measure and surely can be improved on. I do agree that even when off form or slower he's still overall a better attacking player than either Jones or Minamino, but only if he adjusts his game accordingly and stops continuously running into blind alleys, which just hurts the team.

He was, together with Henderson, so poor with the ball that he could have been a Chelsea player. I was hoping that Klopp would be radical enough to shift Elliott to the left and bring Keita in to the central midfield. Fat chance ...

 

[FreshRed]

I think the problem is that Mané is going to have to adjust his game to be effective, as many (not all) players need to do as they get older.

While his finishing is really, really frustrating, I think the big issue is that he is struggling to get past players, find any pass, and running into dead ends. He has either lost some pace or become too predictable and his unpredictability used to be an asset.

When those improve, I think that will do wonders for his confidence and hos impact.

But, he gets full credit for effort, consistent tracking back, pressing, and getting into spaces to receive the ball. The problems start when he receives it.

On the other hand, I think Salah has changed his game this year. His increased awareness of his teammates, and frequently using them, even inside the box, has made him much less predictable than a left-footed shot EVERY time. The quality of our opportunities down the right has really improved and I think he deserves some credit for TAA‘s amazing form.

 

[Mamma Mia]

I’ve always been a massive Mane fan and at a time had him as more important than Salah. He was poor against Chelsea but let’s not right him off just yet.
It’s still early in the season and he could have heavy legs from pre season.

I agree, it would be stupidly wrong of us to right him off just yet.

 

[the count]

I agree, it would be stupidly wrong of us to right him off just yet.

There's nothing left to say.

 

[MomoWASright]

His finishing has been atrocious for 18 months. I said the end of last season I’d ship him out for the right money. I’ve not changed my mind.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

This will be Klopps biggest test. Klopp in general and then his team at Liverpool have to invest in Mane to get as much as possible out of him. They are known for improving players by leaps and bounds. Mane is not exactly young as to be taught few football tricks. But in my opinion, even some subtle changes to his game can bring back the old Mane.

 

[RedStar]

Despite the very late goal against a well beaten Leeds team I thought that game was the best illustration yet of where he's fallen away. He was snatching horribly at good chances which is a tell tale sign of low confidence, but as others have mentioned the burst of acceleration that made him so lethal in one v one situations is gone. He's either carrying an long term injury and it's limiting him or he's lost a step. He will either need to adapt his game to play a different role long term or put some serious rehab work into rebuilding his body.

 

[Brizzle]

The positive for me is that he still gets in good positions and finds space, so those instincts are still sharp. His finishing and decision making have been poor. I feel he needs a game where he bangs in 2 or more to really get his confidence back. Scoring in alternate games doesn't seem to have quite got him there yet.

I still think he's brilliant, and he'll be back at some point winning us games on his own.

 

[Frogfish]

Is it confidence? Everyone keeps saying so however he then goes and scores ... but his issues don't get any better. I'm not so sure it's confidence at all, it's that Mane is a streaky player and a lot of his goals are a result of percentages based on his positioning and the sheer number of shots. @King Binny anything on Mane's historical vs present xG mate?

 

[Donavan Ried]

Despite the very late goal against a well beaten Leeds team I thought that game was the best illustration yet of where he's fallen away. He was snatching horribly at good chances which is a tell tale sign of low confidence, but as others have mentioned the burst of acceleration that made him so lethal in one v one situations is gone. He's either carrying an long term injury and it's limiting him or he's lost a step. He will either need to adapt his game to play a different role long term or put some serious rehab work into rebuilding his body.

Excellent post...You have got this 100% right

 

[King Binny]

Is it confidence? Everyone keeps saying so however he then goes and scores ... but his issues don't get any better. I'm not so sure it's confidence at all, it's that Mane is a streaky player and a lot of his goals are a result of percentages based on his positioning and the sheer number of shots. @King Binny anything on Mane's historical vs present xG mate?

Here you go, mate. xG and xA wise, he has been consistent over the past couple of seasons. Perhaps "overperforming" in 18/19 and 19/20 goal scoring wise makes his underperformance last season even more visible? xG per 90 sec so far is impressive (if only he has taken/finished off his chances).

https://understat.com/player/838

 

[Frogfish]

Here you go, mate. xG and xA wise, he has been consistent over the past couple of seasons. Perhaps "overperforming" in 18/19 and 19/20 goal scoring wise makes his underperformance last season every more visible? xG per 90 sec so far is impressive (if only he has taken/finished off his chances).

https://understat.com/player/838

View attachment 2010

Excellent - Cheers mate !!

It's so early in the season that it's difficult to draw any conclusions. However looking at last season and this it's clear he's still getting into the position to score (as per the consensus on here) but again as we've seen his conversion rate is way below his Xg, last season especially poor but still plenty of time to turn it around this so long as he doesn't continue the trend (which is the worrying aspect).

Of course it's also worth noting that his goal return has been 10-13 for every season bar our two cup / title winning seasons. We are going to need him to return to those figures.

The last two seasons we've seen him excel in the number of Xa though. So although combined (Xg + Xa) he's a little under so far in 20/21 these are good signs for the rest of the season if he can get back to those figures.

 

[dantes]

He can't finish because his lungs no longer supply the same amount of oxygen to his muscles and his brain as they used to. So when he arrives in those positions, he's already gassed and clinging on to dear life as he connects with the ball. We really should sell him whilst we can still convince the buyer it's just a form or confidence issue.

 

[Frogfish]

He can't finish because his lungs no longer supply the same amount of oxygen to his muscles and his brain as they used to. So when he arrives in those positions, he's already gassed and clinging on to dear life as he connects with the ball. We really should sell him whilst we can still convince the buyer it's just a form or confidence issue.

Well the same can be said about you - but it doesn’t seem to stop you posting A4 length replies to most posts. Oh and where’s your graph explaining the above eh?!

 

[bluebell]

If decent offer came in for Mane, then selling wouldn't be an issue. However, why are we writing off a player who we know is a Liverpool great after 4 pl games and where we haven't lost?

 

[Glen C]

I'd sell him and get saint maximin. He has so much potential.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I'd sell him and get saint maximin. He has so much potential.

I’d love to get him and keep Mane.

 

[moron]

If decent offer came in for Mane, then selling wouldn't be an issue. However, why are we writing off a player who we know is a Liverpool great after 4 pl games and where we haven't lost?

Fuck knows, and i think he has like 7 gials in last 10 games for club and country. He even scored for us in last PL game. Yes late goal but its still a fucking goal right ?

 

[Frogfish]

Fuck knows, and i think he has like 7 gials in last 10 games for club and country. He even scored for us in last PL game. Yes late goal but its still a fucking goal right ?

The issue isn’t that he gets his goal - it’s that we are so dominant in most matches but very wasteful and that can come back to bite us - a la 1-2 to Milan at HT when we should have been out of sight (of course in that haha it wasn’t on Mane alone).

 

[tombrown]

The issue isn’t that he gets his goal - it’s that we are so dominant in most matches but very wasteful and that can come back to bite us - a la 1-2 to Milan at HT when we should have been out of sight (of course in that haha it wasn’t on Mane alone).

No, not him alone, especially as he wasn't on the pitch in the first half

 

[dantes]

No, not him alone, especially as he wasn't on the pitch in the first half

He was in the dressing room, where his abnormally heavy breathing sucked an undue amount of oxygen out of the room, which could have partially asphyxiated the players who did go out onto the pitch.

 

[bluebell]

It surprises how even within the club we're very tribal. We have a Mane camp and Salah camp. This has never been the case with other striking duos that I can remember , and it goes back to how the two see each other as, and that's competition.
If they worked together we'd definitely see loads more goals instead of going for glory. How many times have we seen both, rather than squaring going for goal at an acute angle?
BOTH are tremendously wasteful in front of goal, however, do create so many opportunities that 1 goes in