Man Utd: Are they Still Dead Good?

[doctor_mac]

A silly question I'm sure many will say. But I do believe the sheer force of Ferguson's personality, and his undoubted skill as a manager bought them success beyond the skill base of their team. Can they really fill such a massive void with Moyes? Can they get the minor calls that go their way, whether it be from refs, the media, or the FA, when Ferguson's intimidatory power has gone? Honestly, I think they might struggle for top 4. Please God, I know it might be wishful thinking, but they are over reliant on RvP who surely to fucking God is due a nasty injury. Am I far too optimistic that they're in for a torrid year?

 

[Markeh]

All this is what I'm secretly hoping for

 

[red_maradona]

I want to believe, but I think they will still be up there, top 4 at least.

 

[gkmacca]

No, I think that's a good summary. Anyone who lived through our great era knows that once we were established we won a few extra points each season through our sheer aura. Winning late on in games meant we won more games late on as teams practically buckled as they realised the last ten minutes were up. Anything good we did had a knock-on effect. All great clubs have that. But if you start to crack - then the opposite happens. We probably played better the year after we won the last title and yet we lost game after game that we should have won. Psychology plays a much bigger part than most acknowledge. So, as for the mancs: the hacks who've been banned and/or humiliated for years are sharpening their knives, the FA are desperate to show they're really not at all scared, all the other managers in Ginsoak's pocket are ready to rebel for selfish reasons - yes, the line of least resistance is towards decline.

 

[Whaddapie]

It's a very good question... Easy example: Would that have been a penalty on Sunday, if whiskey-nose still been on the sideline?

 

[doctor_mac]

I expect them to invest heavily in the January window, and I honestly think we could see Moyes replaced before then. Sadly.

 

[red_maradona]

What's interesting is Ginosak going all quiet? I kinda hope to hear some rumbling in the background about how things are not going well and adding more pressure, but he seems to have gone stum.

 

[Halmeister]

I'm quite worried by how quiet he is actually. I think Moyes will last the season, unless they have a truly woeful run and are looking out of the race at Christmas.

It's important to remember, though, they've only played 3 games. 2 of which was one away at us, where anything can happen and where we've done well recently, and another game against a very defensive, Mourinho led Chelsea. That ended 0-0. They won their other game convincingly 4-1 at a good Swansea side.

I can only hope what Macca says comes true, but I still think they'll be a force under Moyes.

 

[mom]

Write them off at your peril. I think much of what has been said above makes sense, but they still have a really good squad, and a very good manager. It may take them time to learn his ways etc, but sooner or later they will, and they'll comfortably make top four. If they're struggling come January, they have the financial muscle to go out and add at least a few top names for the second half of the season.
Fergie's abilities and presence has certainly given them a fair few extra points a season, but his absence won't push them from Champs to chumps in a season, I don't think.

Moyes is untested in Europe, so the CL is out, but he knows the Prem well, and has done wonders with an Everton team full of average to good players, so i'd back him to do fairly well with Utd, given time. I think they'll get top four this season, but i'd be shocked if they won it. Chelsea all the way.

 

[gkmacca]

I'm quite worried by how quiet he is actually. /quote]

It's purely because he's had his hips done and the hacks have agreed to leave him alone. Rest assured that fog horned moan will be heard again around November time.

 

[Jack D Rips]

I'm quite worried by how quiet he is actually. I think Moyes will last the season, unless they have a truly woeful run and are looking out of the race at Christmas.

It's important to remember, though, they've only played 3 games. 2 of which was one away at us, where anything can happen and where we've done well recently, and another game against a very defensive, Mourinho led Chelsea. That ended 0-0. They won their other game convincingly 4-1 at a good Swansea side.

I can only hope what Macca says comes true, but I still think they'll be a force under Moyes.

Last time they won their opening fixture 4 - 1 they finished 14th

 

[Lippy]

No, I think that's a good summary. Anyone who lived through our great era knows that once we were established we won a few extra points each season through our sheer aura. Winning late on in games meant we won more games late on as teams practically buckled as they realised the last ten minutes were up. Anything good we did had a knock-on effect. All great clubs have that. But if you start to crack - then the opposite happens. We probably played better the year after we won the last title and yet we lost game after game that we should have won. Psychology plays a much bigger part than most acknowledge. So, as for the mancs: the hacks who've been banned and/or humiliated for years are sharpening their knives, the FA are desperate to show they're really not at all scared, all the other managers in Ginsoak's pocket are ready to rebel for selfish reasons - yes, the line of least resistance is towards decline.

I like this. I will keep and treasure the thought that their decline has begun and it is merely a question of time before they fall off their perch. Hopefully in that time we can make strides to hop back on ours. It's more than that of course. Manchester have a significant amount of debt hanging over their head which requires success driven income to sustain it. There could be some dark days ahead once that success evades them. Of course, having travelled this path of decline and inevitable depression we could empathise with those lot from down the East Lancashire road. The truth of it is that we will most likely find it highly amusing and organise a few parties.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I doubt Fergie would start sticking his oar in yet anyway.

He will, either to say I told you so or give him backing to buy him time, but to do so this early would make Moyes seem like he needs it, belittling his position, rather than strengthening it.

 

[mom]

I like this. I will keep and treasure the thought that their decline has begun and it is merely a question of time before they fall off their perch. Hopefully in that time we can make strides to hop back on ours. It's more than that of course. Manchester have a significant amount of debt hanging over their head which requires success driven income to sustain it. There could be some dark days ahead once that success evades them. Of course, having travelled this path of decline and inevitable depression we could empathise with those lot from down the East Lancashire road. The truth of it is that we will most likely find it highly amusing and organise a few parties.

I love your username. Makes me hungry. And thirsty. You should work in marketing.

 

[Athens]

It's all very similar to the Third Reich once Hitler topped himself.

 

[SummerOnions]

Judge him after 10 games

 

[Mamma Mia]

I think they will falter this season but manage to just about make the top 4. Doing so while watching us waltz the title is what will send them falling.

 

[localny]

No sir they are unravelling. How far they will be allowed to unravel remains to be seen

 

[Modo]

After 3 games?!

They've played Swansea away, Chelsea at home and us away. In my book that's three very difficult games.

We shouldn't even be looking at the table after 3 games.
Let's just take it one game at a time, 'cause karma is a bitch.

 

[Frogfish]

It isn't just the loss of their finest ever manager, though don't forget there was virtual consensus on here that Moyes is indeed a very good manager. It isn't just the change in the backroom staff ... quite inane that not only were they dismissed but they were allowed to be dismissed by the executive. It isn't just the disharmony within the club but especially the players, with Rooney and RvP not only their two biggest stars but also most influential players. It isn't just the fact that this transfer season has been an unmitigated disaster leading to huge embarrassment for the management. It isn't just that the great unwashed have already started to voice their concern with supporters movements demanding meetings with United executives.

It's the fact that their squad showed signs of failing last season, overly reliant on one player and through a mixture of luck, both on the pitch and via injuries, and other teams failures, took the title by default. However the title win has done nothing but cover up the malaise within the aging squad with players they have bought not living up to expectations (RvP aside of course). They may be a juggernaut but once it leaves the road that juggernaut is going to be awfully difficult to get back on track. I believe this is the season that United unravel, big time. The title will be gone by January and they will be locked in a battle to stay in the top 4.

The fallout should they fail to finish Top 4 will be cataclysmic .... *prays and waits with bated breath*

 

[Whirly]

If Moyes settles in he could be very decent, but I just don't see him having any consistent success. One or two mediocre seasons where they finish third or worse and I can see it unraveling rather quickly.

My thinking is that they have a rather spoiled fan base and front office: they've had an unprecedented amount of success in relation to their financial clout. If the success goes, things could spiral out of control quickly. Personally, I don't see Moyes weighing them down for more than two seasons though, one way or another.

 

[Farkmaster]

We've done this thread the last couple seasons, more in hope than anything else, but this time there is a little something to it. That little something has nothing to do with anything happening on the pitch though. The media narrative and a little bit of bad luck and there will be unrelenting pressure. Either way I find it unlikely that they'll not end up as just one of a few teams competing for the title, rather than having dominance. I'd love to be in that position, or even in an outside chance, so I can't really have that hearty a chuckle, but the only way for them to go is down, as far down as us will take some doing, unfortunately.

 

[TSD]

Feel free to interpret the image anyway you like. Anyway.

 

[Frogfish]

United's Squad.
Look at those supposedly in their prime, quite a few aren't good enough for United. Their better performing players last season were generally their older players (RvP, Rooney, Giggs, Young, Ferdinand, Carrick). This squad needs a major overhaul. Those in Red are those IMO not good enough for the first team and will I feel be replaced, or should be replaced, within 12 months. That is an awful lot of work to do to overhaul this squad, considering many of those players were/are first team stalwarts.

Young and Upcoming
De Gea
Rafael
Hernandez
Fabio
Zaha

Proven and in their Prime (or not)
Vidic
Anderson
Evans
Smalling
Rooney
Welbeck
Nani
Cleverly
Valencia
Kagawa
Fellaini

Getting Past It and United need to think about replacing (unless named RvP)
Evra
Lindegaard
RvP
Young
Carrick
Fletcher

Last Legs Pensioners
Ferdinand
Giggs

 

[localny]

If you were Sir Alex, and knowing how driven he was, would you have wanted to build *another* team? That would have been his sixth or seventh. I read somewhere that United haven't made a size able purchase in years.

So I went looking

felliani - 27m
RVP - 24m
Zaha - 15
Kagawa 12
Phil Jones - 16
David DeGea 18
Ashley Young - 16

All since 2011. 127m. We've spent more, but they have recouped sweet FA. I'd say only RVP would walk into the rivals teams. Maybe Kagawa,

It strikes me as not keeping up with City,Chelsea or Spurs. Is Man U in need of serious reinvestment?

 

[tombrown]

Where's DB to tell us the truth?

 

[doctor_mac]

After 3 games?!

They've played Swansea away, Chelsea at home and us away. In my book that's three very difficult games.

We shouldn't even be looking at the table after 3 games.
Let's just take it one game at a time, 'cause karma is a bitch.

Look, a lot of us were giddy with excitement as soon as we knew Ferguson was replacing himself with Moyes. BEFORE A BALL WAS KICKED.

 

[Hansern]

Look, a lot of us were giddy with excitement as soon as we knew Ferguson was replacing himself with Moyes. BEFORE A BALL WAS KICKED.

They were also pretty terrible in pre season so it is basicly 10 games now.

Getting rid of the backroom staff was probably the stupidest desicion ever. Losing a world class set up for a top 6-8 staff was a horrible idea. Moyes probably could have hid his shortcomings and inexperience behind them if he kept the same staff.

 

[Woland]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/04/manchester-united-ander-herrera-transfer-farce

The issue of Thiago Alcântara also needs clearing up. In his case, it has been portrayed as him snubbing United for Bayern Munich when the truth is actually that Moyes decided he was not entirely comfortable going for the Barcelona player. United had been monitoring him for three years and effectively lined up the transfer but Moyes, as everyone at Everton can testify, likes to have a huge amount of background information on new signings and, having initially gone along with it, decided in the end he did not want to take someone else's word about a player he had seen infrequently. Again, it boils down to a new manager shopping in a new market, with a limited amount of time.


Lol. Moyes went gone done fucked up

 

[keniget]

He's not inexperienced though, so why does he need to hide behind anyone?

I think it's all a bit too early. There is a sense of vulnerability about them now but that was always
inevitable as soon as Ferguson retired. Things don't seem as bad for them as they are being made out for me.