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Lucas and 'silly fouls'

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Mamma Mia

Mamma Mia

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Is it really as bad as made out?

Lucas has the best tackle completion ratio in our squad. He also makes the most challenges. Most of his challenges happen in the area he patrols, between our box and the halfway line.

So almost every tackle that he doesn't get right, which isn't many, happens in a dangerous position.

We all know that decisions can often go either way.

So, is Lucas giving away dangerous free kicks because of bad decision making and technique? Or should we expect 1-2 dangerous free kicks to be conceded by him every game simply due to his position and role in the team?
 
Did the likes of Hamann, Masher and Alonso give away a similar number of fouls in dangerous positions?

I'm asking because I genuinely can't remember.
 
Mascher did, but they weren't in dangerous positions, he was on them straight away. Lucas has to catch up
 
I think last night reinforced for me that we're more in need of a creative midfielder a - la Alonso than a simple ball winner. The lack of creativity in our team is stifling
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44606.msg1301528#msg1301528 date=1300439568]
Did the likes of Hamann, Masher and Alonso give away a similar number of fouls in dangerous positions?

I'm asking because I genuinely can't remember.
[/quote]

I think Didi and Mascher did, which is what made me ask the question.

I've been watching Lucas's fouls closely and I realised that it will always be part of his game. A lot of the free kicks come from innocuous tackles. With the sheer number of challenges he makes, it's to be expected in my opinion.

Xabi didn't give away as many, but he made far fewer tackles.

Didi was a master at reading play and he often made his interceptions without needing to make a challenge. I think Lucas is starting to improve in that area. I noted two instances last night where he won the ball by reading the play and intercepting a pass rather than making a challenge.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44606.msg1301528#msg1301528 date=1300439568]
Did the likes of Hamann, Masher and Alonso give away a similar number of fouls in dangerous positions?

I'm asking because I genuinely can't remember.
[/quote]

Hyypia did it alot, but he used to run away with that cheeky smile, so it was ok. 🙂
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44606.msg1301543#msg1301543 date=1300440616]
Hyypia did it alot, but he used to run away with that cheeky smile, so it was ok. 🙂
[/quote]

I don't agree - in his heyday Hyypia rarely committed a foul, although he occasionally did in his last couple of seasons when he had to run out to the wing to cover for the inadequacies of the full backs. He went through one season without a single yellow card, which is an incredible achievement for a centre-back in the Premier League.

I think Lucas' tackling ability is at about the same level of Paul Scholes. I don't think he should be used as a "defensive midfielder" - he is a "box-to-box" midfielder as it said on the tin when we bought him.
 
For me he hasn't got the physical abilities to be a box to box midfielder, and he hasn't got enough skill to be an attacking midfielder. He is a defensive midfielder by default but he doesn't read the game well enough to be a good one.

He will continue to give away fouls in dangerous areas because of his tendency to ball watch and subsequently misread the play and because he's just a bit on the slow side too.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=44606.msg1301526#msg1301526 date=1300439449]
Lucas has the best tackle completion ratio in our squad.
[/quote]

I find this very hard to believe.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44606.msg1301565#msg1301565 date=1300441851]
For me he hasn't got the physical abilities to be a box to box midfielder, and he hasn't got enough skill to be an attacking midfielder. He is a defensive midfielder by default but he doesn't read the game well enough to be a good one.

He will continue to give away fouls in dangerous areas because of his tendency to ball watch and subsequently misread the play and because he's just a bit on the slow side too.
[/quote]

Can't argue with this.
 
I would add that he just doesn't have the "knack" of a DM.

A quality defensive midfielder knows how to get under the feet of an attacking player without drawing a foul. It's the hallmark of this type of player and I'm sure it can't be learnt.

He can't do it.
 
I'm not Spearing's biggest fan, but the rest of the midfield was so ineffectual against Braga, Spearing looked quite good when he came on.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=44606.msg1301526#msg1301526 date=1300439449]
Is it really as bad as made out?

Lucas has the best tackle completion ratio in our squad. He also makes the most challenges. Most of his challenges happen in the area he patrols, between our box and the halfway line.

So almost every tackle that he doesn't get right, which isn't many, happens in a dangerous position.

We all know that decisions can often go either way.

So, is Lucas giving away dangerous free kicks because of bad decision making and technique? Or should we expect 1-2 dangerous free kicks to be conceded by him every game simply due to his position and role in the team?
[/quote]

Where'd you get that from? His tackle completion rate according to Opta is 66%. I find it hard to believe that's the best in the squad.

He has made more tackles than anyone else though. But that's because he's been ever present (thanks to rubbish competition) in an area of the pitch which demands you make tackles.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=44606.msg1301542#msg1301542 date=1300440577]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44606.msg1301528#msg1301528 date=1300439568]
Did the likes of Hamann, Masher and Alonso give away a similar number of fouls in dangerous positions?

I'm asking because I genuinely can't remember.
[/quote]

I think Didi and Mascher did, which is what made me ask the question.

I've been watching Lucas's fouls closely and I realised that it will always be part of his game. A lot of the free kicks come from innocuous tackles. With the sheer number of challenges he makes, it's to be expected in my opinion.

Xabi didn't give away as many, but he made far fewer tackles.

Didi was a master at reading play and he often made his interceptions without needing to make a challenge. I think Lucas is starting to improve in that area. I noted two instances last night where he won the ball by reading the play and intercepting a pass rather than making a challenge.
[/quote]

No they didn't.

And Xabi led the league in tackles made in one of his five seasons at the club (and was in the top 5 in two other seasons). So your question lacks basis in fact.

It's silly to compare Lucas with Alonso, Mascherano and Hamann, as they were far far better. And there's about 1% of chance of him ever being as good. Rosco has it absolutely right.
 
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