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Liverpool v RB Salzburg Match Thread CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

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Farkmaster said:
I don't blame him at all for not winning the league. I don't blame any of our players for that, I don't think they could perform any better, and I don't think they'll perform any better this season either.

Salah though... he's the only player in our side afforded some luxury, in terms of the work he has to do. And that's fine. It's fine he's sometimes selfish, and it's probably also fine that him not at his best still bangs a good amount of goals in. But if, for instance, he ends up scoring less than Mane, who does more, and offers more, of course you can criticize.

My main problem with Salah isn't his scoring though, it's that he just isn't sharp enough with his passes, and he forces a lot of things. This results in him losing the ball a LOT. Even when he was in his unreal purple patch he lost the ball quite a bit, but now, without the same benefit, it's a worse tradeoff. Worse, he does it regardless of what situation the game is in. Mane will run behind, but he'll also know when to come back and slow it down when the percentages are low, or consistently find a player with an accurate pass. For Salah, the overlapping run develops later for him as he's further forward, so it's different, but his play is way too overeager in certain situations. He has one setting.

Salah is probably his own harshest critic based on his frustrated hop to goal ratio at the moment. A solution is more goals, and maybe that's his only solution, not a bad trait in a striker. But... he's not exactly a striker sometimes, and I think tweaking some of the other aspects of his team play are more important. And the idea that somehow this is being churlish and ungrateful is silly to me, because Salah isn't on the level of these unquestionable giants of the game for me, at all. He just visibly doesn't have anywhere near the technique the absolute greats do, with any consistency. When you're as good as Mane or Salah, that's what you're reaching for though, so of course there's a high bar.
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That's a superb post, Farky.
 
Farkmaster said:
I don't blame him at all for not winning the league. I don't blame any of our players for that, I don't think they could perform any better, and I don't think they'll perform any better this season either.

Salah though... he's the only player in our side afforded some luxury, in terms of the work he has to do. And that's fine. It's fine he's sometimes selfish, and it's probably also fine that him not at his best still bangs a good amount of goals in. But if, for instance, he ends up scoring less than Mane, who does more, and offers more, of course you can criticize.

My main problem with Salah isn't his scoring though, it's that he just isn't sharp enough with his passes, and he forces a lot of things. This results in him losing the ball a LOT. Even when he was in his unreal purple patch he lost the ball quite a bit, but now, without the same benefit, it's a worse tradeoff. Worse, he does it regardless of what situation the game is in. Mane will run behind, but he'll also know when to come back and slow it down when the percentages are low, or consistently find a player with an accurate pass. For Salah, the overlapping run develops later for him as he's further forward, so it's different, but his play is way too overeager in certain situations. He has one setting.

Salah is probably his own harshest critic based on his frustrated hop to goal ratio at the moment. A solution is more goals, and maybe that's his only solution, not a bad trait in a striker. But... he's not exactly a striker sometimes, and I think tweaking some of the other aspects of his team play are more important. And the idea that somehow this is being churlish and ungrateful is silly to me, because Salah isn't on the level of these unquestionable giants of the game for me, at all. He just visibly doesn't have anywhere near the technique the absolute greats do, with any consistency. When you're as good as Mane or Salah, that's what you're reaching for though, so of course there's a high bar.
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This most eloquently portrays what LTW is saying about Salah. Instead of playing the percentages to get us goals during our team's dry spell last year, he mostly tried to go it alone and score wonder goals. Its not the worst thing in the world... but it did in some way, along with numerous other fine margin moments, cost us the league.
 
the count said:
Oddly, it seems, I thought Gomez had a decent game and did lots of decent covering.
My lad, who I was watching the game with, thought the same.
Opinions, eh!

I also thought Virgil was well below par.
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This is exactly as I saw it too. Gomez' pace was critical at times. Tough crowd here.
 
Gather round ye weary travellers, for it is I, Brendan, bringer of RAAAAAAATTTTIIINNNNGS!

Christ, that was exhausting. It's easy to make glib statements and lazy cliches about Liverpool being overconfident at going 3-0 up so easily and "taking their foot off the gas", but we seemed to get overconfident at going 3-0 up so easily and took our foot off the gas.

The main problems were obvious: we kept giving the ball away, inviting them to run at us, and Fabinho was - yet again - left isolated in the middle and too easily bypassed. That invites pressure, and when The World's Best Defender (TM) is having an off night, you're in trouble. Overall, we did deserve to win, and we probably should have scored more, given how scintillating some of our attacking play was, but we over-elaborated and wasted good chances.

The defending is a worry, though. It's not looked right all season, and only three clean sheets says it all. And that's not just down to the defence.

Adrian (5) Conceded three and almost gifted them another with a shockingly half-arsed pass that nearly went straight back in after it was easily blocked. When is Allison back?

TAA (7) Some great attacking play and wicked deliveries that resulted in one goal, but should have had three assists really. Had plenty of time and space to do so, admittedly. Not entirely culpable for the second half defensive collapse, though was guilty of losing the ball in poor positions once or twice.

Gomez (5) Hmm. Some glorious examples of that purring acceleration that snuffed out danger, but he was also badly at fault for two of the goals. He made some tasty blocks and was kept (too) busy, but he needs to improve to get back into the first choice XI. And seriously, what the FUCK is Gomez's problem with tracking high balls? It's like his hypertelorism causes blind spots, and we saw it again last night (although it's more obvious when he plays RB).

Virgil (5) Left on his arse By Hwang Kong Fuey and wasn't exactly imperious thereafter, just look at the third goal. Admittedly wasn't helped by the rest of the team, given he was covering for Robertson and Gomez at times.

Robertson (7) A goal at last! He was superb in attack, especially in the first half, and his incredible movement and lung-busting determination got him into several great positions. He did leave too much of the defending to others though, and was complicit in the 20 minute mini-collapse, before screwing his head back on later.

Fabinho (7) Seems fair? A 7? He was left on his tod way too often, and he's the archetype that isn't going to recover after committing himself, so if he misses the ball (and/or player) he's stranded. And he was left stranded a few times as he tried to reassert some control on a midfield that was getting pulled apart far too easily. Made some important big challenges to bring Salzburg's revival to halt, and was certainly happy to see Milner arrive and revert to a more stable central midfield two.

Henderson (5) He's playing right midfield now isn't he? Started well, and played some nice football with Salah and TAA down that rather over-staffed right wing, but then totally lost his radar, both in passing and positioning, and started the bad old habits of huffing and puffing around the pitch, to no great effect, often chasing possession that he lost. Subbed.

Wijnaldum (5) Erm....I dunno. He was decent enough in the first part of the game, with his usual "ticking things over" accurate passing, but he didn't really do much that hurt Salzburg. So, like Henderson, a solid enough 6 in the first half. But, again like Henderson, came out in the second half and could only look on in horror as the shape of the team totally collapsed for 20 minutes. And while scoring and creating isn't his Liverpool role, that most certainly is, and he did nothing to help resolve the problem. Also subbed, as he looked shorn of ideas and energy.

Mane (8) Scored one and should have scored at least one more (that header!). He was a constant menace, popping up all over the shop and creating havoc.

Salah (8) I suppose it is fair to say that he has looked a bit below-par on occasion, and was occasionally frustrating with his mazy runs into trouble and wayward flicks. But he still scores, and that's what counts. Slightly scuffed finish for the first, and then belted in Firmino's cute headed pass for the winner.

Firmino (7) Plenty of industry and what Chris Wilder would call "hard graft", but he also showed his artistry with some delicious passing and flicks. Not everything worked and he still frustrates with his finishing, but we wouldn't have won without him and he made two goals.

subs:

Origi (6) Couldn't repeat his Bramall Lane impact, but offered willing running and a decent outlet
Milner (7) Came on to the world's loudest sigh of relief from Fabinho. Solid and clever and Milner.
 
Farkmaster said:
I think there are some real problems with our lack of control right now. We are losing too many balls at times that make it quite easy to punish us. They both have more gears to go through, but it's not gomez, it isn't trent. It's not even VVD who had a definite off day today. No defender wants to be run at that quickly or have to turn so frequently.

There's a chasm of space that only Firmino is occupying in between the lines once we're committing forward, and there's a ton of room in the half spaces. It's always been there, but our ball retention is shit, and we are ALWAYS so direct. That means that we're giving the opponent good opportunities to create chances, even at times when we don't have much of an opportunity ourselves. Salah IS an issue here.

The larger issue though, is our midfield, which adopts quite aggressive positions in games like this, without the quality to back it up in tight quarters. Our team makes big sweeping movements to dominate using the flanks. It's really punishing when you lose the ball though, there's just so much running. The teams we play don't have to do it every game though, and we do.

This midfield is as good as its going to get. We're going to need something from AOC or Keita to get what we desperately want out of this season.
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re. bolded bit.

I'm not so sure that is true, even though it may seem like it. Klopp has gone on about pressing in spurts and even if we have to up the pace to recover does that impact our overall stats that much or does the fact we likely make more sprints become more tiring ? Such as a sprinter vs a marathon runner.

I was surprised during the game last night when they flashed up distances run per team and ours was 44.x kms vs Salzburg's 47.x kms. Maybe individual stats (Robbo & TAA) would be even more revealing.
 
doctor_mac said:
Ahhh, but I disagree with most of this. All is right with the world.
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Ditto. The World is no longer falling into chaos.

I had the same worries having agreed with everything in the initial post however with this one finding myself in total contradiction.
 
moron said:
There is an issue of style and philosophy here to, in essence we are playing the German way - this is highlighted by the direct and efficient football that Klopp expects us to play, and from the very outset it has meant that there is always a lot of running involved. The thing that gets me though is that sometimes in the games we build up to attack and you can see Salah/Mane or some other player against the last defender holding up his hand his cock, his arse waiting for that pass, only for someone like Gini / Hendo to play the easiest pass to keep the ball, and as soon as that happens - the opposition are back where they belong and have their bus in place - opportunity is lost.
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Sexual deprivation issues mate ? All sorts of fantasies involved there !
 
tombrown said:
Just hope we don't go into the last group game at Salzburg needing something from the match
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With only four teamns in the group, and three of them capable of taking points off of each other, it's almost a certainly we'll need something. At least if we wish to win the group.
 
Mo an 8??

He lost the ball like 20 times & not once did he help out defensively.

His first goal was a keeper error (twice)....he took his 2nd well but that's all he did.
 
binomial said:
Mo an 8??

He lost the ball like 20 times & not once did he help out defensively.

His first goal was a keeper error (twice)....he took his 2nd well but that's all he did.
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Erm.. he scored two goals including the winner.
 
ILD said:
Salah started it in fairness by refusing to shake hands with the Maccabi Tel Aviv players.
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giphy.gif
 
ILD said:
Erm.. he scored two goals including the winner.
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Not enough...too much downside to his game.

Put us under pressure how many times? Fucked up how many opportunities??

Does it matter if you score the 1st 3rd or the winning goal? No....they ll count for the same, none is more important than the other unless it's a 1-0 game of course.
 
The 2 midfield players either side of fab (wini, hendo) this season are spending a lot of time covering for both of the full backs who are always bombing forward.

If a team moves the ball quickly through the middle, we are always outnumbered and there is so much space to exploit as teams have done so this season.
 
binomial said:
Mo an 8??

He lost the ball like 20 times & not once did he help out defensively.

His first goal was a keeper error (twice)....he took his 2nd well but that's all he did.
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He scored twice and one of them was the winner.

That's what a striker is for.
 
The ominous bit is "There is no going back" which sounds like you'd be contracting an incurable, deadly disease or possibly held against your will indefinitely.

Or both.
 
binomial said:
Not enough...too much downside to his game.

Put us under pressure how many times? Fucked up how many opportunities??

Does it matter if you score the 1st 3rd or the winning goal? No....they ll count for the same, none is more important than the other unless it's a 1-0 game of course.
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Scoring two goals including the winner is not enough for you?
I don't care who scores our goals as long as we score. I get your 'point' that all goals help you win a game but winning goals are usually deemed important as they decide the outcome of the game.


Are you on the wind up btw or are these your actual thoughts? Too much downside to Salah's game? Jesus christ.
 
binomial said:
Not enough...too much downside to his game.

Put us under pressure how many times? Fucked up how many opportunities??

Does it matter if you score the 1st 3rd or the winning goal? No....they ll count for the same, none is more important than the other unless it's a 1-0 game of course.
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Look, I know you're the latest "Pet Dopey Cunt" on the Forum, but you're still going to get a slap when you talk this much shit.

Salah scored 44 goals in his first season and 27 last season.
He's our top scorer so far this season, with 6, and it's only October 2nd.

He's scored 77 goals in only 115 appearances.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
 
manwithnoname said:
Look, I know you're the latest "Pet Dopey Cunt" on the Forum, but you're still going to get a slap when you talk this much shit.

Salah scored 44 goals in his first season and 27 last season.
He's our top scorer so far this season, with 6, and it's only October 2nd.

He's scored 77 goals in only 115 appearances.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
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Yes mum, sorry mum
 
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