Go to the doctors immediately!!
Liverpool v RB Salzburg Match Thread CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
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Go to the doctors immediately!!
Yep. The criticism of Gomez seems to be that everyone expects him to suddenly be on form because we need him now, which is utterly bizarre when he's played just a cup game & a few minutes of a league game since returning from injury.
It takes a few games to get up to speed, & whilst I know when a defender is off the pave, mentally, physically or both, it's a lot more obvious & worrying, it's still perfectly understandable.
It takes a few games to get up to speed, & whilst I know when a defender is off the pave, mentally, physically or both, it's a lot more obvious & worrying, it's still perfectly understandable.
What I will say is that after we went 3-3 despite his errors, Virge became an even bigger leader. He was excellent at that point and I think he helped spur us on.
I think there are some real problems with our lack of control right now. We are losing too many balls at times that make it quite easy to punish us. They both have more gears to go through, but it's not gomez, it isn't trent. It's not even VVD who had a definite off day today. No defender wants to be run at that quickly or have to turn so frequently.
There's a chasm of space that only Firmino is occupying in between the lines once we're committing forward, and there's a ton of room in the half spaces. It's always been there, but our ball retention is shit, and we are ALWAYS so direct. That means that we're giving the opponent good opportunities to create chances, even at times when we don't have much of an opportunity ourselves. Salah IS an issue here.
The larger issue though, is our midfield, which adopts quite aggressive positions in games like this, without the quality to back it up in tight quarters. Our team makes big sweeping movements to dominate using the flanks. It's really punishing when you lose the ball though, there's just so much running. The teams we play don't have to do it every game though, and we do.
This midfield is as good as its going to get. We're going to need something from AOC or Keita to get what we desperately want out of this season.
There's a chasm of space that only Firmino is occupying in between the lines once we're committing forward, and there's a ton of room in the half spaces. It's always been there, but our ball retention is shit, and we are ALWAYS so direct. That means that we're giving the opponent good opportunities to create chances, even at times when we don't have much of an opportunity ourselves. Salah IS an issue here.
The larger issue though, is our midfield, which adopts quite aggressive positions in games like this, without the quality to back it up in tight quarters. Our team makes big sweeping movements to dominate using the flanks. It's really punishing when you lose the ball though, there's just so much running. The teams we play don't have to do it every game though, and we do.
This midfield is as good as its going to get. We're going to need something from AOC or Keita to get what we desperately want out of this season.
Indeed there seemed to a huge gap in CM for them to run through.
Fabhino for all his good attributes looks awful if his lunge for the ball misses the mark. He got bypassed far too easily a number of times.
Henderson was awful and Gini got caught ahead of the ball far too often.
Crazy as it may sound our shape through the middle doesn’t look great. We struggle to play through the middle at all. We go wide to Robbo or Trent and if we can’t get a quick ball into the front three it almost always comes back to the CB and over to the other side to repeat.
We don’t seem to take up the right positions in midfield to be able to build the play through the middle at all which makes it hard when teams Marshall the front 3 well. Sheffield United did it really well.
Fabhino for all his good attributes looks awful if his lunge for the ball misses the mark. He got bypassed far too easily a number of times.
Henderson was awful and Gini got caught ahead of the ball far too often.
Crazy as it may sound our shape through the middle doesn’t look great. We struggle to play through the middle at all. We go wide to Robbo or Trent and if we can’t get a quick ball into the front three it almost always comes back to the CB and over to the other side to repeat.
We don’t seem to take up the right positions in midfield to be able to build the play through the middle at all which makes it hard when teams Marshall the front 3 well. Sheffield United did it really well.
Ahhh, but I disagree with most of this. All is right with the world.
There is an issue of style and philosophy here to, in essence we are playing the German way - this is highlighted by the direct and efficient football that Klopp expects us to play, and from the very outset it has meant that there is always a lot of running involved. The thing that gets me though is that sometimes in the games we build up to attack and you can see Salah/Mane or some other player against the last defender holding up his hand his cock, his arse waiting for that pass, only for someone like Gini / Hendo to play the easiest pass to keep the ball, and as soon as that happens - the opposition are back where they belong and have their bus in place - opportunity is lost.
It is so easy to get spoiled in football, but we all know this is a hard game and it is so easy to slip up. Look at this post. We're missing all these chances. We scored four fucking goals and created a lot of other first rate chances. We've watched sides who we can't see scoring, or can't see defending. This side can and does win games with both. This is a great Liverpool side. Sometimes it is easy to forget it. I love this squad of players and I think they could go on to have a great few more seasons.
I pointed to one deficiency in our play and you think I was too over critical ? others will look at this game and just see the three goals we conceded, I am delighted the way this game went, because its the type of game the players will learn from and remember for the rest of the season. I refer the honorable doctor to my first post in this thread tonight. Best place for out team to fuck around is in Europe.
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That's why we need YouTube Keita
His drought last year cost us the league imo, so yes he cost us big time ... Once he got going again against Soton, he was key in helping us play tag with City ...
That stretch however was filled with so may missed opportunities and selfish play, and many many posters were highlighting it ...
Saying hte above does not mean he wasn't a constant danger - he was, and always will be ...
Rewatchedd the match late last night with a calm head.
I'm not gonna eulogise about that opening half hour, which was immense, but focus on where it went wrong.
To sum it up succinctly, Hendo's legs went, then Gini's legs went, Fabinho lost the plot completely cos he was trying to be EVERYWHERE covering them, & Gomez was positionally niave/rusty enough to try to push into midfield to fill the gaps Hendo was leaving as well, which was fucking disastrous.
I'll be pretty surprised if that midfield three start at Leicester. I won't be at all shocked if we start with Milner instead of Hendo & Shaqiri instead of Gini with that switch in formation we used so heavily at the start of last season, cos their legs were gone & we can't cede the centre of the pitch to Leicester like that.
I'm not gonna eulogise about that opening half hour, which was immense, but focus on where it went wrong.
To sum it up succinctly, Hendo's legs went, then Gini's legs went, Fabinho lost the plot completely cos he was trying to be EVERYWHERE covering them, & Gomez was positionally niave/rusty enough to try to push into midfield to fill the gaps Hendo was leaving as well, which was fucking disastrous.
I'll be pretty surprised if that midfield three start at Leicester. I won't be at all shocked if we start with Milner instead of Hendo & Shaqiri instead of Gini with that switch in formation we used so heavily at the start of last season, cos their legs were gone & we can't cede the centre of the pitch to Leicester like that.
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This narrative keeps getting pushed but it’s simply not true.
Salah scored prior to every draw excluding Everton game I believe, so that’s a drought of about 1 game which had any impact on the league. Not really a drought though is iy and excludes all the contributions he made throughout the campaign including 27 goals with winners in crunch games such as Napoli and CL final.
Every striker worth any salt would take that drought.
Drought? He scored 31 goals in 59 games! Yes he went 8 games without a goal at one stage but firstly, he's not a striker and secondly (if he was a striker) even top forwards have a dry spell. It is crazy to blame him for us not winning the league. You'll be blaming Van Dijk next for any game in which he doesn't meet his usual phenomenal standards. Top players have off days and it's then (in top teams) that other players have to pick up the slack.
I predict that both teams will be qualified from the group by the time we play them and the game will decide 1st and 2nd place.
You assume it's only the goalscoring that bothered me ... He was extremely selfish in that time period, something that I haven't actually noticed much this season (unless we're up by a few goals which I don't really care about then - even yesterday, he wasn't selfish in that sense, just was very wasteful) ... and again, if you go to the match threads, many posters were highlighting it. Would you prefer I say "He did everything brilliantly and was incredible throughout the season"? I should highlight that he should have earned the red card that would have won us the league - but the ref was a cunt.
It's ok to say VvD wasn't at his best yesterday and left much to be desired on the 1st and 3rd goal (and a few other instances where we got lucky) - or is that not allowed now?
Which one of his droughts cost us the league last season? Wasn’t that the original point?
Only Lewandowski and Messi have scored more than Salah in last 2 years, that’s just amazing. To have a striker who offers what he does is unique and should be celebrated. Forgetting the fact he just scored 2 in a tough win.
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My point is that we judge players like VVD and Salah unfairly because we judge them against their own phenomenal standards; both players have been incredible for us and should be above criticism for short spells of less-than-stellar performances. It's fair to point out that Van Dijk wasn't great yesterday but not fair to blame him for erratic team performance. Similarly it's fair to say Salah wasn't at his best for a few games last season but to blame him for us not winning the league is preposterous.
Forwards are always selfish. We just notice it/focus on it more when they stop scoring so often.
To compound that, they tend to shoot even more so when they're not playing well, cos they know if they get a goal that often gets them back into form, so they become more desperate & snatch at more chances.
I think it is amazing ... but I want a striker, who like the two you mentioned, leads a team to win the league. CL is nice, but the league is our bread and butter and its time we get back on that perch.
It's what I see sir - as it was a perfect season - and the aforementioned red card that the ref chickend out of (That Salah 'won').
And nah, no player is immune from criticism ... bar God ... No ... the real one mate, Robbie.
I don't blame him at all for not winning the league. I don't blame any of our players for that, I don't think they could perform any better, and I don't think they'll perform any better this season either.
Salah though... he's the only player in our side afforded some luxury, in terms of the work he has to do. And that's fine. It's fine he's sometimes selfish, and it's probably also fine that him not at his best still bangs a good amount of goals in. But if, for instance, he ends up scoring less than Mane, who does more, and offers more, of course you can criticize.
My main problem with Salah isn't his scoring though, it's that he just isn't sharp enough with his passes, and he forces a lot of things. This results in him losing the ball a LOT. Even when he was in his unreal purple patch he lost the ball quite a bit, but now, without the same benefit, it's a worse tradeoff. Worse, he does it regardless of what situation the game is in. Mane will run behind, but he'll also know when to come back and slow it down when the percentages are low, or consistently find a player with an accurate pass. For Salah, the overlapping run develops later for him as he's further forward, so it's different, but his play is way too overeager in certain situations. He has one setting.
Salah is probably his own harshest critic based on his frustrated hop to goal ratio at the moment. A solution is more goals, and maybe that's his only solution, not a bad trait in a striker. But... he's not exactly a striker sometimes, and I think tweaking some of the other aspects of his team play are more important. And the idea that somehow this is being churlish and ungrateful is silly to me, because Salah isn't on the level of these unquestionable giants of the game for me, at all. He just visibly doesn't have anywhere near the technique the absolute greats do, with any consistency. When you're as good as Mane or Salah, that's what you're reaching for though, so of course there's a high bar.
Salah though... he's the only player in our side afforded some luxury, in terms of the work he has to do. And that's fine. It's fine he's sometimes selfish, and it's probably also fine that him not at his best still bangs a good amount of goals in. But if, for instance, he ends up scoring less than Mane, who does more, and offers more, of course you can criticize.
My main problem with Salah isn't his scoring though, it's that he just isn't sharp enough with his passes, and he forces a lot of things. This results in him losing the ball a LOT. Even when he was in his unreal purple patch he lost the ball quite a bit, but now, without the same benefit, it's a worse tradeoff. Worse, he does it regardless of what situation the game is in. Mane will run behind, but he'll also know when to come back and slow it down when the percentages are low, or consistently find a player with an accurate pass. For Salah, the overlapping run develops later for him as he's further forward, so it's different, but his play is way too overeager in certain situations. He has one setting.
Salah is probably his own harshest critic based on his frustrated hop to goal ratio at the moment. A solution is more goals, and maybe that's his only solution, not a bad trait in a striker. But... he's not exactly a striker sometimes, and I think tweaking some of the other aspects of his team play are more important. And the idea that somehow this is being churlish and ungrateful is silly to me, because Salah isn't on the level of these unquestionable giants of the game for me, at all. He just visibly doesn't have anywhere near the technique the absolute greats do, with any consistency. When you're as good as Mane or Salah, that's what you're reaching for though, so of course there's a high bar.
Fucking hell. Who knew LTW hated on Salah so much?
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