Liverpool v Everton - Match Thread

[Hansern]

DERMOT'S VERDICT: I thought it was a penalty. I think Trent Alexander-Arnold impedes him; he hooks his leg up as well. Calvert-Lewin is past Alisson - Nat Phillips is a red herring because he's behind Alexander-Arnold when the tackle is made. Once Chris Kavanagh gives the penalty, he has to send him off but because of the process of him going across [to the pitchside monitor] and VAR feeling there was a doubt about the penalty, I think it got lost in the process about the sanction to follow. Penalty and red card? Yes. They focused on the penalty, rather than: 'Is it a penalty and should a sanction follow?'

On Utd:

DERMOT'S VERDICT: I think this is what we call a 'modern-day penalty'. From what we've seen in the Premier League this season, they've decided if there's contact on the foot, they'll give a penalty. That's why, 25 rounds in, we've already had more penalties than any other season before. We talk about consistency - they have been consistent.

INCIDENT: Harry Maguire sends Jamaal Lascelles tumbling in the box just three minutes into the game. No action is taken.
DERMOT'S VERDICT: I think nothing [should happen]. The defender is blocking off. I think the referee is focused on the goalkeeper but the VAR checked that incident in play and felt the same, that Maguire was blocking off Lascelles as defenders do in the penalty area. I think 'play on' was the right decision.

 

[binomial]

Dermot much like Kavanagh, Coote, Atkinson, Riley, Marriner, Dean, Moss, Taylor, Friend, Oliver, Pawson and Atwell are a bunch of grade A cunts.

Apologies if I forgot to mention anyone, those 13 just sprung to mind instantly.

 

[Fabio]

Even when they fuck up, they don't admit it. Look at city's goal the other week against. 2 days later "oh in incidents similar to this it's offside now"

No, it was always fucking offside. What you're doing is making it look like you've changed the rule for the good do the sport, when in actuality you've just sent people on to the pitch who don't understand the rules of the fucking game.

It's a joke

 

[Halmeister]

I don't know why anybody bothers listening to what refs have to say about these incidents in the media. As Fabio says, this is them closing ranks and protecting themselves and painting themselves in the best possible light.

I was saying to my mates the other day, we're seeing a microcosm of how finished our government and society is in this reffing/VAR stuff. Incompetent bell end officials making clangers constantly, then protecting themselves and refusing to admit responsibility, while going without punishment or sanction.

 

[Fabio]

It took them 2 months for them to concoct something up for Pickford not getting a red against us, and ultimately all they did was let the heat die down so they could not take blame, but highlight that there was a breakdown in their analysis of the event.

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah, the same reason why I tune politics out and don't vote is now becoming the same reason why I'm no longer watching football.

Footy used to be my sanctuary away from all the shite in the world, but now it's just as infected as everything else. It always was, no doubt, but it was never as overt and obvious as this.

It's mad when you see how Man City fans were acting last year. I don't think it was ever that extreme, but the whole thing is a corrupt mess now.

 

[Fabio]

I wouldn't mind if there was consistency in the calls. I could disagree with them, but if they're consistent then they should even out.

But they're not.
Mane offside against Everton Vs Leicester goal against us.
Mane not fouled by darlow, Trent fouled DCL

I'm not a complete bellend and thinking it's a conspiracy against us, thee are examples for and against us which shows a lack of consistency. I'd be happy if the mane offside and the Leicester offside were both given as that, because it's consistent.

What we've got now is different people interpreting things vastly different. Whether that's wording in the rules or something else I don't know. But "the best league in the world" is a fucking joke.

 

[Fabio]

Yeah, the same reason why I tune politics out and don't vote is now becoming the same reason why I'm no longer watching football.

Footy used to be my sanctuary away from all the shite in the world, but now it's just as infected as everything else. It always was, no doubt, but it was never as overt and obvious as this.

It's mad when you see how Man City fans were acting last year. I don't think it was ever that extreme, but the whole thing is a corrupt mess now.

They're wee excitable babies, who had dominated for a few years. I got their rage.

Problem is football fans are myopic. It's like why everyone thinks Martin Tyler hates their team. No, he's just fucking awful at his job.

Same as refs. They don't victimise you. They're just fucking awful.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I wouldn't mind if there was consistency in the calls. I could disagree with them, but if they're consistent then they should even out.

But they're not.
Mane offside against Everton Vs Leicester goal against us.
Mane not fouled by darlow, Trent fouled DCL

I'm not a complete bellend and thinking it's a conspiracy against us, thee are examples for and against us which shows a lack of consistency. I'd be happy if the mane offside and the Leicester offside were both given as that, because it's consistent.

What we've got now is different people interpreting things vastly different. Whether that's wording in the rules or something else I don't know. But "the best league in the world" is a fucking joke.

You really starting to think there's too many calls going against us?
I said it yesterday - the only call I think we got lucky on was the penalty against Fulham which wasn't given, and I think was. Everything else I just feel is against us - from the calls you missed (Mane wasn't close to being offsides, Darlow clearly impeded a tap etc).
If this is the only way to ensure we win #20 next year by 20 points and blue fume implodes as they get 'our luck' this year, then so be it (would be nice if we win #7 this year too though)

 

[Fabio]

You really starting to think there's too many calls going against us?
I said it yesterday - the only call I think we got lucky on was the penalty against Fulham which wasn't given, and I think was. Everything else I just feel is against us - from the calls you missed (Mane wasn't close to being offsides, Darlow clearly impeded a tap etc).
If this is the only way to ensure we win #20 next year by 20 points and blue fume implodes as they get 'our luck' this year, then so be it (would be nice if we win #7 this year too though)

I don't think there's an outright conspiracy no. Other teams have been fucked over by ludicrous decisions. Bamford being offside because he pointed where he wanted the pass to go springs to mind.

I think we're now in a weird phase of football mentality where we've shifted from "I've seen them given" to "var should have seen that".

The refs are still the same shit they've always been. Difference is they're getting the same info as us and still fucking up

 

[Hansern]

So far I've seen Rashford being clever and an elaborate fall, and the refs calling it a modern day penalty. Imagine if that had been Salah. The discussion today would have been about how easy he goes down, and that it would have been a soft penalty.

 

[Hansern]

You really starting to think there's too many calls going against us?
I said it yesterday - the only call I think we got lucky on was the penalty against Fulham which wasn't given, and I think was. Everything else I just feel is against us - from the calls you missed (Mane wasn't close to being offsides, Darlow clearly impeded a tap etc).
If this is the only way to ensure we win #20 next year by 20 points and blue fume implodes as they get 'our luck' this year, then so be it (would be nice if we win #7 this year too though)

Its gotten past the weird stage now, but cant really say what it is.
But we now have 11 negative VAR involvements. Thats more in total then any team during the entire last season.

 

[Hansern]

Clattenburg with a "he lifted his head up".. Hahaha

 

[mark1975]

I wouldn't mind if there was consistency in the calls. I could disagree with them, but if they're consistent then they should even out.

But they're not.
Mane offside against Everton Vs Leicester goal against us.
Mane not fouled by darlow, Trent fouled DCL

I'm not a complete bellend and thinking it's a conspiracy against us, thee are examples for and against us which shows a lack of consistency. I'd be happy if the mane offside and the Leicester offside were both given as that, because it's consistent.

What we've got now is different people interpreting things vastly different. Whether that's wording in the rules or something else I don't know. But "the best league in the world" is a fucking joke.

All VAR has amounted to is the officiating equivalent of too many cooks. Ref's are always egotistical, so throw more officials into the mix and you've got confusion that only results in either:

• poor decisions because of indecisiveness
• poor decisions and group mentality in closing ranks and absolving each other of blame (ie, if we all decide on the same thing, we must be right!)

It amounts to the same thing, confusion and a lack of consistency. I too don't want to fall in to the tin hat line of thinking, but the way it's gone this season, it's either a complete freak or there really is a conscious thing happening.

 

[ibromurph]

What is also evident in this crowdless era of football is how susceptible referees are to screaming from players.

Like that cunt Fernandes screams whenever he is tackled, and he invariably gets a foul from it.

What's stunning is how many times he screams and clutches his ankle, and yet the cunt is never ever injured! It's amazing. (I don't wish bad on anyone, but it's becoming the case of the boy who cried wolf for me)

And then you look at how the referees react to press articles.

Klopp mentions United penalties and they don't get a soft penalty for nearly a month.

Maguire comes out a week ago and cries that Klopp's comments have stopped refs from giving them penalties and then they get two soft ones given in a week (WBA overturned remarkably, but a blatant offside almost ignored).

Just highlights how cowardly referees are in this country and why Fergie used to constantly bully Mike Riley and his colleagues.

And now look, after years of being bullied by Fergie, Riley is the chief man in charge of the referees and Clattenburg got a top position elsewhere (after admitting bias)?

Coincidence? I will let you decide.

 

[ibromurph]

It amounts to the same thing, confusion and a lack of consistency. I too don't want to fall in to the tin hat line of thinking, but the way it's gone this season, it's either a complete freak or there really is a conscious thing happening.

It's not coincidence and it's not a conspiracy either.

Referees are human beings, influenced by the same biases the average person is influenced by.

So when the narratives last season were played. Liverpool were said to be:

1) LiVARpool - receiving favourable treatment on subjective VAR calls, despite the fact I can only think of the Wolves (H) and City (H) game which had 2 big decisions go our way.
2) Mane and Salah were divers.
3) Jurgen Klopp was a menace who could get away with murder on the touchline, and was bullying officials to get his way.

That prevailing narrative has seen us go into this season having to overcome human referees, who can't help but be slightly biased against us.

Personally, without the injuries, I think we'd overcome this bias still. With it? It's been doubly tough.

 

[binomial]

No one is saying Lewin dived or not, you can see why a pen was given (Trent was on the ground and in his way from getting the rebound) but you can also look at it our way and say what else is he supposed to do? he's not even looking where he is and can't move anywhere.

So now it should be clear to everyone that penalties can be given for offenses that are not deliberate.

The fact other clubs and their managers are blaming/reporting referees, slating VAR left rght and centre surely signals the huge failure that these men hold in officiating football games.

 

[ibromurph]

No one is saying Lewin dived or not, you can see why a pen was given (Trent was on the ground and in his way from getting the rebound) but you can also look at it our way and say what else is he supposed to do? he's not even looking where he is and can't move anywhere.

So now it should be clear to everyone that penalties can be given for offenses that are not deliberate.

The fact other clubs and their managers are blaming/reporting referees, slating VAR left rght and centre surely signals the huge failure that these men hold in officiating football games.

If I stick my leg out in the box and just stand there, and you run half the length of the pitch with the ball, could go around me, as I'm not moving, but you decide to go through me, and you nutmeg me, and then go over my leg (which I've not moved in the entire time you were running), is it now a foul on my part because I didn't get out of the way?

Like if you hit a static car when you're driving, whose fault is it?

Should Alexander Arnold, with his back turned on the ground, have known to duck his head and get out of the way of DCL? Is that now what defenders must do? Make it as easy as possible for a striker to go past them?

Like, I am not blind, I can see Trent raised his leg for a split second after DCL literally knee'd him in the back of the head (the lad could have been dazed for all we know). If anything, I thought it was a petulant reactionary kick you give someone after they've trod on you. But if it's in the rules that you're allowed to knee a defender and not get any reaction from the defender, then yes it is a foul and pen, for sure. I'd just like a bit of clarity/consistency on the situation, after seeing Mane literally do his best NOT to tread on Darlow (and hurdle him), and yet have his leg held by the GK with both hands on the goal line as he was about to tap it into an empty net. And we didn't even get a VAR review from it (nor an acknowledgment of error) after it. That sort of (in)consistency is what irks me more.

 

[tomasjj]

I've seen a few former refs have now said the ref wasn't called over to check to see if it was a penalty.

He was called over to decide whether it was a red card. Given David Luiz was sent off last month for a similar incident.

Basically saying the Ref played a blinder. It was a pen and it wasn't a red card if you apply common sense.

Not sure if this is just referees associations closing rank or not.

They always close rank.

 

[binomial]

I lost all hope long ago that the refereeing system in this country could ever be mended.

And can only wish more clubs report referee's (because what's the harm) for their lazy abysmal decisions tha directly influence the result of the game.

None of them know what deliberate or accidental means, none of them could explain what obstruction is or what part of the body is deemed handball.

The fact that Kavanagh was referred over to the monitor suggests amongst themselves they do not agree on the decision the onfield ref is making.

 

[tomasjj]

Clattenburg with a "he lifted his head up".. Hahaha

Had no reason to go down?

Lifted his head?


You know, the more reasons they roll out, the more bollocks the decision is.

 

[The Nomad]

I lost all hope long ago that the refereeing system in this country could ever be mended.

And can only wish more clubs report referee's (because what's the harm) for their lazy abysmal decisions tha directly influence the result of the game.

None of them know what deliberate or accidental means, none of them could explain what obstruction is or what part of the body is deemed handball.

The fact that Kavanagh was referred over to the monitor suggests amongst themselves they do not agree on the decision the onfield ref is making.

But but but.. he was called over to check if Trent should have been sent off.

Oh hang on a minute. Dermot said he forgot to send him off.

 

[moron]

This brings into question two things this season:

1) Why was Mane not awarded a penalty against Newcastle when the goal keeper bought him down ?
2) Why was Pickford not sent off for what he did to VVD ? - I mean Trent gets kicked in the head but it's ok - he was blocking the striker, and its ok for a striker to kick someone in the head when chasing a ball.

 

[tomasjj]

Has Halsey said anything?
I only trust him now.

 

[Judge Jules]

This brings into question two things this season:

1) Why was Mane not awarded a penalty against Newcastle when the goal keeper bought him down ?
2) Why was Pickford not sent off for what he did to VVD ? - I mean Trent gets kicked in the head but it's ok - he was blocking the striker, and its ok for a striker to kick someone in the head when chasing a ball.

They've admitted Pickford should have gone - too late to do us any good of course, but they (finally) have.

 

[Raz]

Football is a mess, plain and simple. The players don’t even know the rules anymore, nevermind the fans. I’m not totally against VAR, it should be used for checking goals, violent conduct and offside. Offside needs to go back to Offside, if a any player is offside then flag and blow the whistle. How long can this shit continue, where you don’t even celebrate a goal until.... oh fuck knows! Someone needs to have the fucking guts to turn the game back to what it was or one day we will be talking about the ‘heading the ball’. I miss the game!

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

It’s all only about money now. Commercialisation and corruption. And anyone who tells me I’m being daft you need to get your head checked and wake up from your fantasy football.

 

[mark1975]

Had no reason to go down?

Lifted his head?


You know, the more reasons they roll out, the more bollocks the decision is.

See, his whole argument falls flat on it's arse because he says DCL had "no reason to dive", so he's accepting the credibility of one player over another, which is just his opinion. It's not fact based.

The facts are there was contact, the discretion from the ref then comes from him deciding whether he thought the contact avoidable and/or deliberate. Seeing as Trent had his back to the play and was fouled first by being kicked in the back of the head (unless Trent thought, "I'm going to lift my head here and take this cunts legs out with my cranium"), it's not a foul is it?

Once again, because there's a second punishment to consider, VAR and the officials can't cope with that. So because of the potential red card decision, it sort of then becomes a lesser of two evils punishment, as opposed to actual fucking common sense. Instead they decided it wasn't a red card but not giving the penalty would be too lenient. Which begs the question, what the fuck was going on when we played them last time and they missed the red card worthy foul because they were looking at an offside?

No wonder women say men can't fucking multi-task.

 

[ctlovesred]

If that happens at midfield it is a “coming together” after a fair tackle.