Liverpool The Best Transfer Window and.............

[LarkLaner]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46714.msg1393399#msg1393399 date=1314967377]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393365#msg1393365 date=1314964692]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=46714.msg1393360#msg1393360 date=1314964367]
What was the intent?

To have everyone questioning our sanity?
[/quote]

we'd just been taken over and our previous owners had syphoned off transfer funds, we then sold our best player I think the intent was to show we weren't has been club and the new owners are willing to reinvest funds. that's what I took from the signing anyway.
that said, I still think carroll will be a vital asset away from home.
[/quote]

I suspect it was simpler than that. Torres had asked to leave with not much of the window remaining so we needed a no.9, and a good one at that, pronto. Kenny wanted Carroll, Newcastle (understandably) took advantage of the situation and we decided that refusing the deal, leaving us without the striker we wanted (and needed), would do us more damage than paying their price. Time will tell if that was the right decision but, like you, I anticipate Carroll will be an important string to our bow as time goes on.
[/quote]

Completely agree JJ.

I think the need for the Carroll transfer was further driven by the uncertainty that existed on how quickly Suarez (who was bought to play with Torres!) was going to settle; and what a pleasant surprise he did as well as soon as he did!

Carroll's £35m fee was just that due to three distinct premiums that we had to pay in the closing stages of the January 2011 transfer window.

- The young British Player Premium
- The buying the best player from another PL team with hours remaining in the transfer window Premium
- The pockets weighing heavy following receipt of British transfer record Premium

While we did pay over the odds for Carroll (and we did) there were so many differing factors that came into play influencing the transfer fee that 'the fee' was never going to be a true representation of what the player was worth. With this in mind I don't think we can really get hung up over what we did pay for him. Whats done is done, Newcastle aren't going to see reinvestment of that money in their playing staff and we have added to our ranks the most highly rated English striker of his generation, who will offer a style of play that is different from other members of our current strike force.

 

[Mistadobalina]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393352#msg1393352 date=1314963489]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent.

[/quote]

totally agree with this.
[/quote]
I like this thinking...I'm going to use this logic on my wife..'these jeans were not a 200 dollar panic buy...they were a 200 dollar statement of intent'.

 

[LarkLaner]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=46714.msg1393431#msg1393431 date=1314970182]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393352#msg1393352 date=1314963489]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent.

[/quote]

totally agree with this.
[/quote]
I like this thinking...I'm going to use this logic on my wife..'these jeans were not a 200 dollar panic buy...they were a 200 dollar statement of intent'.
[/quote]

;D Made me chuckle! You can almost imagine Larry David coming out with that line.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=46714.msg1393431#msg1393431 date=1314970182]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393352#msg1393352 date=1314963489]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent.

[/quote]

totally agree with this.
[/quote]
I like this thinking...I'm going to use this logic on my wife..'these jeans were not a 200 dollar panic buy...they were a 200 dollar statement of intent'.
[/quote]

you may joke but the mood amongst the fans was very low indeed when torres was being sold and to chelsea no less. from what I remember there was very little fanfare over the signing of suarez but when we signed carroll it was a case of behing excited again, not necessarily about carroll but looking forwards to the future and our new strike partnership.

I totally get why people aren't impressed by carroll and that they feel he is a waste of money but if I were a manager I'd want as many strings in my bow as possible to combat the challenge of home and away games and carroll offers something different with his aerial ability up front, we paid a premium for it but we have it none the less, only time will tell if the 35m is a complete waste of money.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
To whom it may concern as I am entirely too lazy to look up your name and quote:

Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent. And in that respect, he was worth every cent.
[/quote]

What was the statement exactly? That we intend to vastly overpay for largely unproven footballers?

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=46714.msg1393443#msg1393443 date=1314971145]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
To whom it may concern as I am entirely too lazy to look up your name and quote:

Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent. And in that respect, he was worth every cent.
[/quote]

What was the statement exactly? That we intend to vastly overpay for largely unproven footballers?
[/quote]

In fairness, several people have eloquently given their opinion on the matter above.

 

[LarkLaner]

While we're on the subject of justifying the Carroll transfer fee...

An interesting thing, which I'm sure went largely unnoticed, occurred on Wednesday night as *adopts Jim White pose* the transfer window slammed shut. 30 1/2 year old Peter Crouch moved from Tottenham to Stoke City for £12m plus signing on fees/agents fees etc. The same Peter Crouch who has his best years behind him, will soon be entering the twighlight of his career and can surely not be looked upon as providing any more than 3yrs service of any worth at Stoke, after which he will have little or no residual value.

If Crouchie is deemed to be a £12m man then surely Carroll looks good value at £35m given his near 10 year age advantage over Crouch, his greater potential and residual value, which no matter what dips in forms he has will never drop below £15-20m over the next few years.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=46714.msg1393447#msg1393447 date=1314971428]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=46714.msg1393443#msg1393443 date=1314971145]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
To whom it may concern as I am entirely too lazy to look up your name and quote:

Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent. And in that respect, he was worth every cent.
[/quote]

What was the statement exactly? That we intend to vastly overpay for largely unproven footballers?
[/quote]

In fairness, several people have eloquently given their opinion on the matter above.
[/quote]

I really don't think paying £35m for Andy Carroll can be justified as a statement of intent, even by the more eloquent amongst us. Kenny said we rushed him back, which means that when we did the medical, we must have known that he wasn't going to play much for the remainder of the season.

It was not prudent from a footballing point of view, it wasn't prudent from a financial point of view, and the only real statement we made was that we had £35m burning a hole in our pocket.

 

[King Binny]

Its unfair to judge this way though, cos of the stature of the clubs involved in the comparison. They signed Kenwyne Jones for £8m. With Etherington and Pennant on either wings and for a couple of million more, they've brought in an England international who should manage more goals than Jone's return of 9 in the previous season. For the prize money from each league position gained and their push for top ten after finishing between 11-13 over the past seasons, its understandable why its a fair price in their opinion.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=46714.msg1393468#msg1393468 date=1314972822]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=46714.msg1393447#msg1393447 date=1314971428]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=46714.msg1393443#msg1393443 date=1314971145]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
To whom it may concern as I am entirely too lazy to look up your name and quote:

Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent. And in that respect, he was worth every cent.
[/quote]

What was the statement exactly? That we intend to vastly overpay for largely unproven footballers?
[/quote]

In fairness, several people have eloquently given their opinion on the matter above.
[/quote]

I really don't think paying £35m for Andy Carroll can be justified as a statement of intent, even by the more eloquent amongst us. Kenny said we rushed him back, which means that when we did the medical, we must have known that he wasn't going to play much for the remainder of the season.

It was not prudent from a footballing point of view, it wasn't prudent from a financial point of view, and the only real statement we made was that we had £35m burning a hole in our pocket.
[/quote]

Sometimes "prudent" doesn't cut it. Those on the spot decided (reasonably enough IMO) that it was a risk we needed to take, and in any case it's far too soon to be saying it hasn't worked.

 

[LarkLaner]

[quote author=Binny link=topic=46714.msg1393470#msg1393470 date=1314973089]
Its unfair to judge this way though, cos of the stature of the clubs involved in the comparison. They We signed (the then unproven in a strong league) Suarez for £23m. With Etherington and Pennant We now have Downing and Henderson on either wings and for a couple of million more, they've we brought in an England international who should manage more goals than Jone's Torres' return of 9 in the previous season. For the prize money from each league position gained and their our push for top ten the top four (and the spoils that come with it) after finishing between 11-13 6-7 over the past seasons, its understandable why its a fair price in their our opinion.
[/quote]

I've made some slight adjustments to your post Binny, not to be be a smart arse, but to further demonstrate that the justification for the splashing of £12m on Crouch is easily transferable to our own justification for the splashing of £35m on Carroll. We also have the whole life cost argument to bring out if necessary...

As mentioned previously I don't think that we should concentrate on how much we paid for Carroll, its done now and we need to use Carroll as best we to our advantage in the push for Champions League Football and beyond; which, as a matter of coincidence, includes a visit to Peter Crouch's Stoke City next weekend.

 

[King Binny]

Ha, I like that mate. I'm not too bothered about his price tag and think its only fair to judge at least with a full season under his belt. At the end of the day, how influential the player is in terms of the team's play and results will no doubt play a big part in the review. Will Carroll's goal and contribution play as big a part as Crouch's will towards Liverpool and Stoke's respective goals and overall season? I hope so. 😉

 

[King Binny]

Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli, at the behest of the club's owners, have ushered 19 players out of Liverpool's doors. The final two, Raul Meireles and Philipp Degen, departed with just minutes of the transfer window to spare. The past is finished. Let the future begin.

Fourteen players have been sold or released, and a further five dismissed temporarily, on loan, most notably Joe Cole and Alberto Aquilani.

An astounding £30 million has been wiped from the wage chitty, and a little over £20 million raised in funds.

The phrase "trimming of the squad" does not quite fit; this has been all-out attack on the errors of the past. Only Brad Jones and Danny Wilson remain of Roy Hodgson's signings, and only three of the 14 signed by Rafael Benítez in his final two years at the club. Less than a year after the putsch which brought Fenway Sports Group to Anfield, Liverpool have undergone a second Night of the Long Knives. This one, though, has lasted all summer.

Some were rather more willing than others to stand aside. Paul Konchesky accepted a wage cut to join Leicester. Nabil El Zhar, Emiliano Insua, Milan Jovanovic and, eventually, Degen agreed to cancel their contracts, albeit for lucrative settlements.

Liverpool will continue to pay for the mistakes that have gone before. Lille insist Liverpool will continue to supply 60 per cent of Cole's £80,000-a-week wages, meaning Anfield's finances will be drained to the tune of £2.5 million for a season in which the 29 year-old plays in France.

Christian Poulsen’s move to Evian has been subsidised, too, but that is rather the point: FSG see their glass as half-full, not half-empty. At least the £2.5 million paid to Cole while he is in France is a saving of £1.65 million. That is the ruthlessness that has pervaded Liverpool’s summer.

FSG were determined to build a more cost-effective squad, and were prepared to withstand the short-term financial cost to do so. Hence their decision to spend big and spend early, regardless of the knock-on effects later in the summer.

"The owners were happy to take risks and happy for us to spend money," reflected Comolli. "A lot of owners would have said the squad is too big, so you need to reduce, and then when you have done that, bring some players in, but that was never the approach. I told them we would need to buy first and they were very, very brave to accept that."

Nowhere was that cut-throat approach better witnessed than with Meireles. The Portuguese was not desperate to leave Anfield, but was left with no choice after seeing Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam recruited in midfield and a promise to augment his £35,000-a-week wage, should his first season be a success, broken.

Discussions over a pay rise never started. In the end, he had to hand in a transfer request and forego a loyalty payment to smooth his escape to Chelsea.

Few Liverpool fans would have sold Meireles, particularly not to a bitter foe and especially not for £12 million, roughly what Hodgson paid for the Portugal international last summer. That is the measure of the new Liverpool, though. Those who are not required will be cast aside. Dalglish wants only those soldiers he deems necessary; a bloated squadron is a cumbersome one.

"For me, the players they have signed have largely been British, which takes me back to when I started watching Liverpool," said Craig Bellamy, the final piece of incoming business carried out by Dalglish. "It looks so familiar to me, so to be part of it is such a huge honour."

Dalglish has built the squad he wanted: young, energetic, mostly home-grown, and with a passion for the club – but it fits FSG's vision, too. The squad is streamlined – 22 senior players, supported by youth – with this summer's six signings, Bellamy apart, earning a combined, and relatively modest, £13 million-a-season in wages.

That is a saving of £17 million-a-season. FSG are no asset-strippers, though. They have spent £114 million on players in eight months, plus wages, with £75 million regained in transfer fees. This is not a rerun of Liverpool's recent past. This is the start of the future.

Key Anfield departures: Raul Meireles (Chelsea) £12m, David Ngog (Bolton Wanderers) £4m, Paul Konchesky (Leicester City) £1.5m, Daniel Ayala (Norwich City) £800,000, Gerardo Bruna (Blackpool) £750,000,Joe Cole (Lille) loan, Emiliano Insua (Sporting Lisbon) undisclosed, Chris Mavinga (Rennes) undisclosed, Sotirios Kyrgiakos (Wolfsburg) undisclosed, Christian Poulsen (Evian) undisclosed, Alberto Aquilani (AC Milan) undisclosed, Milan Jovanovic (Anderlecht) undisclosed, Tom Ince (Blackpool) undisclosed, Nabil El Zhar (Levante) undisclosed.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Did someone just Binnify Binnys post 😱

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Yes I saw that the young upstart

regards

 

[themn]

Someone needs to explain why Andy "I drink loads of beer, me" Carroll is STILL NOT FIT.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Good thread this isn't it Themn? :🙂

regards

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=themn link=topic=46714.msg1393492#msg1393492 date=1314976847]
Someone needs to explain why Andy "I drink loads of beer, me" Carroll is STILL NOT FIT.
[/quote]

he probably is, but his heads not right. Allegedly he didn't want to elave his home town club and has been benched or injured for a majority of his time here

i'd be a bit annoyed/upset

 

[Hansern]

As long as he contributes to us winning thropies I couldnt care less what he cost us in transfer fees.

Overall we've done some excellent business, so rather than focusing on one single transfer we can look at the bigger picture and be very pleased indeed.

 

[themn]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46714.msg1393496#msg1393496 date=1314977569]
[quote author=themn link=topic=46714.msg1393492#msg1393492 date=1314976847]
Someone needs to explain why Andy "I drink loads of beer, me" Carroll is STILL NOT FIT.
[/quote]

he probably is, but his heads not right. Allegedly he didn't want to elave his home town club and has been benched or injured for a majority of his time here

i'd be a bit annoyed/upset
[/quote]

Mother fucker needs to shape up.

 

[spider-Neil]

he's fit he just isn't match sharp and frankly that is fair enough THREE games into the season.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46714.msg1393496#msg1393496 date=1314977569]
[quote author=themn link=topic=46714.msg1393492#msg1393492 date=1314976847]
Someone needs to explain why Andy "I drink loads of beer, me" Carroll is STILL NOT FIT.
[/quote]

he probably is, but his heads not right. Allegedly he didn't want to elave his home town club and has been benched or injured for a majority of his time here

i'd be a bit annoyed/upset
[/quote]

this gets better and better!!!

 

[themn]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393505#msg1393505 date=1314978152]
he's fit he just isn't match sharp and frankly that is fair enough THREE games into the season.
[/quote]

Right.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[LarkLaner]

How can anyone claim that Carroll is not fit (when compared to other members of the squad)/not right in the head at the moment is beyond me.

On his fitness - Carroll joined last season while carrying a long term injury from which he was rushed back to take part in the final stages of our campaign. When he did come in to the team he performed admirably and bagged a brace against Manchester City, providing a glimpse of what we can expect of him in the future.

We've had a preseason that seems to have been more a money making exercise than preparation for a long Premiership season. As such, it looks like it has taken a bit longer than originally intended for some of our players to reach peak physical condition. I'm not sure if Carroll's size gives the impression that he appears to be running in custard and therefore 'not fit' but without being gifted electric pace this surely isn't surprising? He's not carrying any excess weight, has been clear of injury for some time and providing he has been working hard in training, which he appears to be doing, isn't too far off peak fitness. He may have a touch of the Stephane Henchoz puffed cheeks at times, but we can't use that to judge his fitness sat in the stands or even watching MoTD.

On his unhappiness/issues with 'his head' - the only thing seriously wrong with Carroll's head at the moment is his daft ponytail. There does appear to be a shortfall in confidence but I don't see that as a big issue and will improve once he starts lashing the ball into the onion bag a la Exeter and Sunderland *curses inept refereeing decisions which should have allowed goal to stand*. The only time he seems to be 'unhappy' is when referees start picking him up for every brush against a defender and, conversley, when referee's don't offer any protection from heavy handed defenders themselves. I think he has assimilated himself wholeheartedly into the team spirit that Dalglish and his team are developing within the squad, and will prove himself to be one of the real 'characters' in the dressing room as the season develops.

On his impact on the teams style of play - Carroll is a great footballer, with a good touch and is quite capable of fitting into a 'neat and tidy' passing style, despite a shortfall in mobility when compared to the nippy Suarez's of this world. It's not mentioned enough but it should be remembered that the perceived change in slick passing style to a hoof-fest when Carroll is on the pitch is not actually his fault. As soon as he's on the pitch its blindingly apparent that a switch goes off in some of our players heads that's labelled "take the easy option and hoof it to the big man", this needn't be case and those at fault would be better placed patiently working the ball on the deck, out wide and to the members of the team who are qualified to put a dangerous ball int the box from wide positions, as surely is the Management teams intention.

 

[Avmenon]

We can ignoreprice tags all we like; the fact is that if Newcastle had quoted 35 million for Carroll and we rejected it outright no one here would have batted an eyelid. We're just trying to justify it now because we DID pay it, ant the reason for that was far more strategic than tactical. It was a chance for the owners to show they were in it for the longhaul.

 

[gene hughes]

Did someone just say "onion bag"?

 

[LarkLaner]

Yes, it seems I did. Jumpers for goal posts and all that isn't it?

 

[peterhague]

i have to plead ignorance on the carroll fitness issue: i honestly can't tell whether he is or not. there seem to be loads of posters adamantly making both sides of the argument - what is it that makes any of you so sure he's fit/unfit? it's a genuine question.

FWIW, i'm not sure it's really relevant. my worry is that he doesn't look good enough: given the choice, i'd prefer the explanation to be a lack of fitness rather than a lack of ability, but it's not like that's without its concerns, is it? he should be fucking fit - there's no excuse not to be.

 

[themn]

I want *this* Andy Carroll (yeah, it's The Championship, but look at the goal at 1:15......where's that pace gone ?)

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46714.msg1393352#msg1393352 date=1314963489]
[quote author=narwhal, ahoy! link=topic=46714.msg1393312#msg1393312 date=1314958349]
Carroll wasn't a £35 million panic buy. He was a £35 million statement of intent.

[/quote]

totally agree with this.
[/quote]

The only statement it's made is we've spent £35M on a player who sits on the bench.