Let's talk about Curtis
- Thread starter rurikbird
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Wow, Curtis got himself a super-fan.
I don't get all the wanking over Curtis Jones. He's bang average and will never be anything else.
What now? In terms of league the stats speak for themselves.
Mount has 129 senior games 27 goals 22 assists
Jones has 55 senior games 4 goals 3 assists
While I’m not saying Mount is not good or Jones is “generational” - you’re not really comparing like with like there.
Mount is 2 years older - so you could discount 56 games & 14 goals for last year.
Mount also spent 2 seasons on loans playing in the Dutch league & Championship, so there’s another 64 games & 17 goals you could strip out.
A fair comparison is to look at how many Premier League games Mount had played at roughly the same age as Curtis.
In that case you have a comparable 73 games & 13 goals Vs Curtis’ 55 & 4.
Better… yes… but not as much of a gap.
When you consider that Curtis has only played over 15 games once, whereas amount has consistently played over 30 games - be that due to injury, form or experience, I think you can make a case that Curtis, if he is given a consistent run in the side and maintains a decent level of form, isn’t vastly inferior to what Mount offers.
Mount’s fitness is better therefore he’s developed and delivered quickly - but there’s every reason to think that if Curtis played and started 30+ games a season then his output and influence would be comparable to Mounts.
I’m all for signing Mount - but not much more than £40m - but also there is really no point in keeping Curtis if we aren’t going to play him regularly - so loan or cash in.
Rather keep the Jones.
Mount is a risk we can’t this summer. Everytime I see him on the England teamsheet, seems completely ineffectual and don’t see any attribute he has that we don’t have already or need. Rather spend on a good DM or proper CM if Mount is the only option.
Mount is a risk we can’t this summer. Everytime I see him on the England teamsheet, seems completely ineffectual and don’t see any attribute he has that we don’t have already or need. Rather spend on a good DM or proper CM if Mount is the only option.
To be fair to Mount, he is a type of player who thrives on movement and therefore needs a system around him that will make use of his runs – it's no wonder why he can't show his best qualities playing for Southgate. It's almost like saying Trent can't play midfield because he was shite in that role in one game for England.
Is this actually true or are you just making excuses for him? He’s a Southgate favourite after all ahead of Madison etc. Chelsea has a wealth of talent yet in 24 league matches this season he’s scored 3 and contributed 0 assists. He’s even been worse in the champions league with none in 9 matches.
I see an ordinary player who, at the moment anyway, isn’t that much better than Jones however people want to spin it (other teams’ ordinary players are better than our ordinary players and all that.) I’m glad we’re publicly linked with him which means he’s unlikely to come here.
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Like Lucas
Still their 3rd highest scorer.
By this logic Enzo, Felix, Mudryk, Sterling, Havertz and Kante must be pretty average too.
Regardless of Trent, think England forwards are very good on movement especially Kane and Saka. With England’s team and the amount of game time Mount has had, I think the return was terrible especially compared to how much game time Trent had.
Numbers (not fees) and eyes suggest they are, although Fernandez has only been there a day and like Kante isn’t an attacking player and you know it. Have you seen Harvetz, though?
Not getting involved in the argument re Mount v Jones. Mount is obv pretty good, dunno if he's what we need. Same with Jones really. In an ideal world they'd both be fit and available tomorrow. If they'd have been that way all year then I very much doubt we'd be nearer bottom than top. But one plays for Chelsea and the other one has been out injured.
We have got a player in the side who considerably improved at Liverpool after a shit time at Chelsea. I think we'd all be happy enough with a Glen Johnson if TAA moved up a bit. But then there's Joe Cole. I'd roll the dice. I'd also keep Jones. It's kinda like some stock you bought cheap, looked like it was gonna make a fortune, then returned to it's previous value...but might pop off again soon. You'd kick yourself if you cashed in just before it did.
We have got a player in the side who considerably improved at Liverpool after a shit time at Chelsea. I think we'd all be happy enough with a Glen Johnson if TAA moved up a bit. But then there's Joe Cole. I'd roll the dice. I'd also keep Jones. It's kinda like some stock you bought cheap, looked like it was gonna make a fortune, then returned to it's previous value...but might pop off again soon. You'd kick yourself if you cashed in just before it did.
Don't forget Sturridge. He was another one who came to us looking decidedly iffy, and turned in to one our most clinical strikers of the last 20.
Problem is (I feel), mount isn't glamorous. He's a favourite workhorse in a Southgate side, rather than the all action Jude.
I think it we got him, he'll end up with peak milner style contribution. Never our best, but fucking important at times
My gripe is the idea we move Jones on for Mount because the former is worse than the latter. Not having that.
Naaah I don't think we'll do that. We need more midfielders not less.
It's funny because whenever Mount came up during conversations about the England team my friends would be like "he's crap... what is it that he actually does" and I would defend him to a point by saying he's a very good player for Chelsea.
But now that it's a case of having him in our team, ya'know, I'm not so sure. I can see the arguments for it - he's technically adept, works hard, has good attacking instincts and ultimately is a system player. Put him in the right set up with the right players around him and he should do well.
The main issues I have are that we'll likely be paying a huge English premium, which feels unwise given our current predicament and from what you read, if he does end up leaving Chelsea, it'll be reluctantly.
But now that it's a case of having him in our team, ya'know, I'm not so sure. I can see the arguments for it - he's technically adept, works hard, has good attacking instincts and ultimately is a system player. Put him in the right set up with the right players around him and he should do well.
The main issues I have are that we'll likely be paying a huge English premium, which feels unwise given our current predicament and from what you read, if he does end up leaving Chelsea, it'll be reluctantly.
Those stats are his premier league games and goals for Chelsea only so the first half of your post is completely irrelevant.
He’s played 50% more games which you can argue is down to fitness but also equally because I dunno, he’s a better player? Mount was a regular part of the team that won the CL.
And three times the amount of goals is not a small gap and assists is off the charts.
I’m a big Curtis fan but it’s laughable to make a case that he’s even remotely close to Mount, nevermind better which was the assertion in the post I replied to.
Whether we should sign Mount is a different discussion altogether.
And three times the amount of goals is not a small gap and assists is off the charts.
I’m a big Curtis fan but it’s laughable to make a case that he’s even remotely close to Mount, nevermind better which was the assertion in the post I replied to.
Whether we should sign Mount is a different discussion altogether.
I don’t want us to move on Jones but I can’t see any factual evidence to support the claim Jones is equal or better than Mount.
I haven't read through this thread yet, but my feelings on Curtis are along the lines of this.
When he first started emerging, he was a tricky left winger, which was interesting but not a gap or need we had in the team. Even less so now lolz.
Anyway, I remember he started deputising for Gini, and he had a lot of Gini-like traits. He shields the ball well and is confident to hold on to it when needed. I said a few times over the years that I could see Klopp was trying to make him a 'system player' and it looked on occasions like he was growing into that - something which we know isn't easy. It arguably blunts some of the strengths he had as a youth player but put him on a path to being a player we needed.
He's lost a year of development, so its harsh to judge him on his return but the leaps he makes every half of football is already impressive. If he stays disciplined, works hard off the pitch and makes himself known as a midfielder whose first priority is to put in a proper shift, and second priority is then adding to our attacks then I think he'll find himself very quickly looking on the cusp of first team plans.
I would be happy with him being part of our midfield options next year if this is the case, but I would also worry for his development time on the pitch if we really are buying 3 or more CMs. If we did that I'd almost want to consider a PL loan next season to help take him to that next level, because minutes on the pitch is exactly what he needs at this stage in his career.
When he first started emerging, he was a tricky left winger, which was interesting but not a gap or need we had in the team. Even less so now lolz.
Anyway, I remember he started deputising for Gini, and he had a lot of Gini-like traits. He shields the ball well and is confident to hold on to it when needed. I said a few times over the years that I could see Klopp was trying to make him a 'system player' and it looked on occasions like he was growing into that - something which we know isn't easy. It arguably blunts some of the strengths he had as a youth player but put him on a path to being a player we needed.
He's lost a year of development, so its harsh to judge him on his return but the leaps he makes every half of football is already impressive. If he stays disciplined, works hard off the pitch and makes himself known as a midfielder whose first priority is to put in a proper shift, and second priority is then adding to our attacks then I think he'll find himself very quickly looking on the cusp of first team plans.
I would be happy with him being part of our midfield options next year if this is the case, but I would also worry for his development time on the pitch if we really are buying 3 or more CMs. If we did that I'd almost want to consider a PL loan next season to help take him to that next level, because minutes on the pitch is exactly what he needs at this stage in his career.
That's because he's not. Plain and simps.
I think the problem with Jones is he looks like Gnasher from the Beano and that disgusts people on a deeply unconscious level.
So they fix on to some vaguely plausible criticism ie "he holds on to the ball too long" and they think they're being smart and critical when really they just hate the way he looks like Gnasher from the Beano.
We need homegrown squad players and he's finally in form. Hope he keeps it up. We need players that can give us 20 games a season it's a big improvement on Ox/Keita
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