Lack of games, an abundance of centre backs and the odd men out

[mark1975]

Sakho, Skrtel, Toure, Agger, Illori.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I mean, that's some depth and quality so we can't groan. So what do we all think?

* Is three at the back here to stay? Or is it something we've reverted to because of a lack of replacement on the right for Johnson? (Kelly's short of fitness, Wisdom is terrible there and Toure will get knackered soon). What are your feelings about how it's gone so far? Has it papered over cracks or shown up short comings? Is it only being used because we're overstocked?

* 5 players to satisfy and only two competitions to play in - I guess over three positions it's not bad, but at times like this when we're playing games once a week or with a two week gap, how does it effect the odd men out? We're playing well so we're not likely to rotate and we don't have the FA Cup until January.

* Who'll miss out? I guess this is the million dollar question. Injury, form etc will see someone step in and take the mantle for a while, until the next one gets injured and so on and so on. It'd be harsh to label Agger injury prone these days, but then he does still have to get wrapped in cotton wool. Skrtel has gone through stages of being brilliant and stages of indifference, Sakho had a shaky start but is finding his feet and cementing his place in the team - his aerial ability is a BIG plus in comparison to the others. Toure has been a revelation, arguably alongside Sturridge as our player so far, after being prematurely dismissed as a poor signing.

I don't think it's helped cohesion personally, I think it's papering over cracks at fullback and in midfield, but then with Johnson, Cissokho, Allen and Coutinho back, we may look alot stronger and more balanced with better depth.

Of course, we're top of the league with Arsenal, so we can't moan too much, but as we've noted, we're not hitting the heights of late last season with our performances, but we're grinding out results instead. And the versatility to use this set up has to be a plus. We'll take every game as it comes and utilise what we believe is necessary, but surely every manager has in his head what his strongest XI is at any given time. Rodgers should be credited with rewarding form, attitude and hard work, but by the same token, surely someone's future will be questioned eventually.

 

[Best Believe It]

The comments about Suarez and Sturridge working best in a two doesn't leave us with many options in terms of formation, unless there's some new fangled approach I haven't heard of (always possible). 352 or 442. If you couple that to Rodgers' opinion that Coutinho works best in the centre then we're pretty much left with 352 if we want to play 2 up top.

I've got no problem with it per se but the problems we have at full back and in midfield are being highlighted at the moment, and I've no idea if that's as a result of the formation or whether it would be being highlighted irrespective.

 

[Markeh]

I don't think 3 at the back is a permanent fixture, like you say it's a stop gap solution to the surplus of center halves and the fullback shortage. Imo it'll be a formation we'll return to from time to time when the manager feels it suits the situation in terms of personnel or opposition.

I'm pretty sure we'll dump a center half in january, Skrtel or Agger and I'm hoping we manufacture someone we trust to be second choice behind Johnson, be it McLaughlin or a new signing, I don't think Kelly or Wisdom have it in them to play right back long term for a Rodgers side.

It's difficult to say how we'll line up, it's madness not to pair Sturridge and Suarez up front but how does the rest of the XII line up then. If I had to pick our strongest side for an imaginary home game against a lower table side probably playing playing a lone striker and giving us the lions share of possession it'd look like this on paper:

------------------------Mignolet
Johnson-------Toure---Sakho-------Cissokho
Henderson---Gerrard-Lucas-------Coutinho
----------------Sturridge-Suarez

But end up more like this, with Coutinho and Henderson moving centrally and the fullbacks giving the width:

-----------------------Mignolet
------------------Toure----Sakho
Johnson------------------------------Cissokho
------------Hendo-Gerrard-Lucas
---------------------Coutinho
-----------Sturridge-------Suarez

Maybe that's some championship manager silly formation but that seems to be everyone in positions they've excelled in, I think a lot of our forward players are intelligent enough to take up dangerous positions and give us width as necessary.

 

[mark1975]

Yeah, I guess part of the problem is that we've got a few players who'd suffer from being isolated. Ideally we'd play a front three of Sturridge, Suarez + 1, and they could just interchange, with Coutinho in behind, but that has an impact on the fullbacks and who ever plays centrally. Either they're suffering as much as the next player would, or it's highlighting deficiencies in our defensive set up.

Personally I'd like to see Henderson stay central with whoever and to have Gerrard and Coutinho make up the numbers in the four attacking berths. Moses has done ok but I'm not overawed, and there's no one else there worth shouting about, they're either too inexperienced, not good enough or a combination of both. Essentially the front four should be Gerrard, Sturridge, Suarez and Coutinho.

 

[Frogfish]

3-5-2 will look a lot better to some of us when Johnson is back. It's a flexible formation that plays to our strengths at the back and front and yet still strengthens our weakness which is midfield.

 

[mark1975]

3-5-2 will look a lot better to some of us when Johnson is back. It's a flexible formation that plays to our strengths at the back and front and yet still strengthens our weakness which is midfield.

Henderson did well the other day, but the problem of players waltzing through our midfield was still there, Gerrard playing that deep role is a big issue, he's not positionally disciplined enough.

 

[mark1975]

Ideally our XI would be:

----------------Mignolet----------------
Johnson--Toure----Sakho--Enrique
--------------Lucas-Hendo-----------
-------Gerrard----------Coutinho----
-----Suarez--------------Sturridge--

 

[Modo]

Henderson will most likely be the player we sacrifice if Rodgers is adamant about playing the 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 or whatever line up.

Lucas will be paired up in midfield with Gerrard, Coutinho will play behind Studgie and Suey.
Johnson on the right wing, Enrique on the left, here I am stuck in the middle of you.

 

[Frogfish]

Ideally our 3 at the back XI would be:

----------------Mignolet----------------
------Toure----Skrtel----Sakho------
Johnson--Lucas-Hendo--Enrique
-------Gerrard----------Coutinho----
-----Suarez--------------Sturridge--

Don't think you can get away with that formation Mark 😉

 

[mark1975]

Oh yeah, I forgot to fuck someone off. EDIT!!!

 

[Frogfish]

😀

 

[Markeh]

Henderson did well the other day, but the problem of players waltzing through our midfield was still there, Gerrard playing that deep role is a big issue, he's not positionally disciplined enough.

I'm sorta surprised more wasn't made of it in the post match thread for the Palace game but I thought Gerrard didn't play well at all. I can understand why though, we won comfortably with him on the scoresheet. I'm not even sure it's about discipline any more he looks like he's playing within himself knowing he doesn't have the energy any more.

I'm hoping he'll hit a higher level of form and fitness post Christmas.

 

[Squiggles]

I don't agree with a lot of the comments in this thread and I think the current formation will last.

The primary reason we've gone to this formation is that is allows for an axis of

-------------Coutinho--------------------
-----Sturridge-----Suarez

without leaving ourselves exposed defensively.

 

[Markeh]

I don't agree with a lot of the comments in this thread and I think the current formation will last.

The primary reason we've gone to this formation is that is allows for an axis of

-------------Coutinho--------------------
-----Sturridge-----Suarez

without leaving ourselves exposed defensively.

You could be right, I'm just guessing about it not lasting. It'll be interesting to see how much better it can get with Coutinho and Johnson included and interesting to see if it could stand up to tougher tests, would it work for a trip to the Emirates?

 

[ILD]

Can we not try..
---------------------Mingolet------------------

--Johnson-----CB--------CB------Enrique

---------Gerrard------Lucas------Henderson

--------------------Coutinho------------------

-----------Suarez----------Sturridge----------

I dunno if I like 3-5-2 to be honest. Not sure what I posted is better but wahey. I don't usually do these line up posts as starting positions don't mean much in my book. I like movement and players taking up clever positions throughout the game.

 

[Frogfish]

Henderson is not suited in any way or form to playing LM. Whenever played there he's been crap/anonymous. 3-5-2 suits the players we have and TBH I love it's fluidity with the right personnel.

 

[keniget]

The Milan diamond with Coutinho playing the Kaka role as kind of alluded to in Markeh's post could be another option but our midfield is shit and our we don't have the likes of Cafu and Maldini... so an option, but a fairly questionable one.

Anyways, Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge are all capable of playing wide and seem to enjoy having a free role so they can just 'float', interchange and be awesome.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Rodgers said he's back to 4 at the back when GJ is back so I'd assume with the money spent it will be.

Ming
GJ
Sahko
Toure
Enrique
Henderson
Gerrard
Moses
Coutinho
Suarez
Studge

 

[Dreambeliever]

Can we not try..
---------------------Mingolet------------------

--Johnson-----CB--------CB------Enrique

---------Gerrard------Lucas------Henderson

--------------------Coutinho------------------

-----------Suarez----------Sturridge----------

I dunno if I like 3-5-2 to be honest. Not sure what I posted is better but wahey. I don't usually do these line up posts as starting positions don't mean much in my book. I like movement and players taking up clever positions throughout the game.

Nah Moses will play for sure.

 

[Whirly]

Your predictions are only valid until a key player picks up a serious knock.

A Flexible 352/3421 might give us the most fluidity in terms of plugging and playing different players, depending on who we have healthy. If you only have one of Sturridge/Suarez, is there any way to stick with 352?

 

[Ryan]

Mark's actually decent thread has turned into a 'what's our best 11' fuckathon.

Feel my pain Mark. Feel my pain.

 

[Athens]

'what's our best 11'

It's the question that everyone wants answered...

 

[Ryan]

It's the question that everyone wants answered...

It makes my teeth itch.

 

[rurikbird]

Like I said before, I expect 3-4-1-2 or 3-4-2-1 to be used fairly often this season, maybe more often away than at home. Rodgers recently described this formation as "set up more for the counter-attack," so that could be the formation of choice in games where we don't expect to win the possession battle and would rather use the front 3 of Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge as a counter-attacking force.

In the games where we play with 4 at the back, hard choices will need to be made. People sometimes point to the rotation of CBs at United, but I think our situation is fundamentally different. At United there is a clear demarcation between a pair of aging world-class CBs (Rio and Vidic) who need to be rotated in and out of the starting 11 to keep them fresh and several younger CBs who are fighting for the chance to play instead or alongside one of the veterans. In our case, Agger, Skrtel and Sakho are all at or near the peak of their careers and Toure, while signed more as a back-up, is quickly becoming a team leader not to mention a cult hero.

I think on the right side of the CB partnership Skrtel and Toure can easily be rotated: Skrtel might be OK with being a 3rd choice CB at Liverpool and Toure at his age will probably need some rest and might get injured more often. It's on the left side where the main battle will occur. In all of his career in Liverpool, Agger never had a challenger like Sakho and he will need to raise his game to another level to have any hope of retaining his place. I am very curious to see how this will play out. I think Agger is a uniquely talented defender, but he needed a kick up the arse for a long time, and boy is he going to have his hands full with trying to fend off Sakho. He cannot match him on physical attributes (not many players can), so he will need to offer much more in his passing, "playmaking," consistency and focus to justify his inclusion over the Frenchman. The added competition should be a great thing for our team and as fans we can just grab some pop-corn and watch. Trying to predict who might end up where would be just spoiling the fun.

So to summarize, here is what I think:

1. 3-4-1-2 will be used fairly often this season, especially away from home.
2. In games where Brendan would rather have an extra midfielder in place of the 3rd CB, Agger and Sakho will fight it out for the starting CB position on the left and Toure and Skrtel will be rotated on the right side. Ideally, by the end of the season we'll have an excellent, settled and battle-tested pair of starting CBs and strong 3rd and 4th choices as well.
3. Ilori will play mostly in the cups and on odd occasions in the league and Wisdom might be loaned out once Johnson comes back. Coates will be sold in the summer.