Poll King Kenny vs Uncle Woy

[Sunny]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40552.msg1117127#msg1117127 date=1276170059]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40552.msg1117121#msg1117121 date=1276169818]
4 away wins in two years is a fucking disgrace and I don't care if its 'lowly' fulham.
[/quote]

No wins in ten years isn't much better.
[/quote]

If that's a reference to Daliglish it's a bit unfair as he's not had the opportunity to win games.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=40552.msg1117139#msg1117139 date=1276170821]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40552.msg1117127#msg1117127 date=1276170059]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40552.msg1117121#msg1117121 date=1276169818]
4 away wins in two years is a fucking disgrace and I don't care if its 'lowly' fulham.
[/quote]

No wins in ten years isn't much better.
[/quote]

If that's a reference to Daliglish it's a bit unfair as he's not had the opportunity to win games.
[/quote]

That's the point he's trying to make.

 

[themn]

Which bastards voted for Roy ?

You bastards !

 

[gene hughes]

Wow, I thouht it would be closer.

Aaaaaaaare we Geordies, aaaaaaaare we geordies, are we geordies in disguise?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarre we geeeeeoooorrrrddddies in disguise?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Let's get Kevin Keegan with Toshack as assistant.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Mr_V link=topic=40552.msg1117095#msg1117095 date=1276168649]
FUCKING HELL!!! why would anyone want Kenny over Roy??

Kenny won the league with us 20 years ago... hasn't won anything for 15 years and hasn't been in management for 12 years.

Kenny inherited a great team from by-gone era's and whilst he added some fantastic players in the latter part of there career's (bar John Barnes) to form the 1988 team, we had the same problem as Chelsea have now come 1991 and players were getting too old.

Roy on the other hand has done wonders with Fulham, had they not had the distraction of the UEFA/Europa Cup thing, they'd have been in with a shout of finishing above us.

Kenny will fail if in charge of us...
[/quote]

I'm not sure that is totally fair on Kenny you know

The players he bought to form his first great team in the late 80s were generally in their mid twenties - Barnes, Beardsley, McMahon, Houghton. Even Rush was only about 27 when he brought him back.

He also brought players like Molby, Gillespie and Beglin through from the reserves to become regulars in the side.

There is an argument (which has some merit) that he had been slow to replace that side but if you look at the team he left, not many were actually over 30. Some were on the verge of turning 30, like Beardsley, Rush, McMahon, Whelan and Nicol, or just a couple of years off like Barnes, Houghton and Molby but ultimately we were league champions and in Kenny's last season I think we started the season with something like 10 wins and were top when he quit, so it wasn't an obvious decline!

To be fair to him, he also had people like McManaman, Marsh, Fowler, Hutchison and Redknapp at the club who would all come through in the next few years and others like Staunton and Burrows who were already in the side.

Work needed to be done but to say that the team was all old and needed replacing kinda justifies the approach Souness took of just trying to do it all at once, which clearly didn't work.

 

[grjt]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?

 

[Spionkop69]

I'm getting caught up in the romanticism of it all now I've read the interview with his son- Dalglish. My all time football idol. Why have I ever doubted him!

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117164#msg1117164 date=1276172357]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?
[/quote]

I thought I made it clear, sorry.

I mean in terms of knowing good players in foreign leagues, I could be wrong but Kenny probably doesn't have the scouting network that Roy would have as he has been buying and selling in todays market. I wasn't referring to fitness/coaching at all. With all Roy's foreign experience, he may well know the European market better than Kenny, and considering we need to fill some key positions in our squad without having major cash to do that, Roy could be a better option than Kenny.

 

[reuque]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117169#msg1117169 date=1276172924]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117164#msg1117164 date=1276172357]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?
[/quote]

I thought I made it clear, sorry.

I mean in terms of knowing good players in foreign leagues, I could be wrong but Kenny probably doesn't have the scouting network that Roy would have as he has been buying and selling in todays market. I wasn't referring to fitness/coaching at all. With all Roy's foreign experience, he may well know the European market better than Kenny, and considering we need to fill some key positions in our squad without having major cash to do that, Roy could be a better option than Kenny.


I'm confident we have some talent in the reserves and academy to compensate for the lack of cash. I think Kenny as a manager can fit them into the first team nicely.
[/quote]

 

[refugee]

[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=40552.msg1117119#msg1117119 date=1276169671]
I don't think roy hodgson can convince Gerrard and Torres to stay, so I have to vote for Dalglish.
[/quote]

This

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=reuque link=topic=40552.msg1117171#msg1117171 date=1276173057]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117169#msg1117169 date=1276172924]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117164#msg1117164 date=1276172357]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?
[/quote]

I thought I made it clear, sorry.

I mean in terms of knowing good players in foreign leagues, I could be wrong but Kenny probably doesn't have the scouting network that Roy would have as he has been buying and selling in todays market. I wasn't referring to fitness/coaching at all. With all Roy's foreign experience, he may well know the European market better than Kenny, and considering we need to fill some key positions in our squad without having major cash to do that, Roy could be a better option than Kenny.[/quote]


I'm confident we have some talent in the reserves and academy to compensate for the lack of cash. I think Kenny as a manager can fit them into the first team nicely.
[/quote]
Like who? We need, to my mind, A LB, LM and a ST.
Who have we got on the books?

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117169#msg1117169 date=1276172924]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117164#msg1117164 date=1276172357]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?
[/quote]

I thought I made it clear, sorry.

I mean in terms of knowing good players in foreign leagues, I could be wrong but Kenny probably doesn't have the scouting network that Roy would have as he has been buying and selling in todays market. I wasn't referring to fitness/coaching at all. With all Roy's foreign experience, he may well know the European market better than Kenny, and considering we need to fill some key positions in our squad without having major cash to do that, Roy could be a better option than Kenny.
[/quote]

I suspect that if Kenny were to take over he would be wanting to bring in an assistant manager who could help with this.

I also imagine that he knows more about the modern game than you might be giving him credit for. He's not spent the last 10 years on the golf course. Football has been his life. I am sure he still knows his stuff.

I agree that Woy will have had more experience of looking for bargains though

 

[KopKing]

The King all the way its the emotional and logical choice for me. The King will heal divisions and bring the club together which is all we need. He knows the league, the knows how to win titles and he knows the club. If he wants to do it, which by all accounts he does, it's a no-brainer.

Unless we get an uber-European coach to replace Rafa, eg Capelllo, Mourhino, anything else is a few steps down and signals our decline as a big club.

 

[grjt]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=40552.msg1117176#msg1117176 date=1276173718]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117169#msg1117169 date=1276172924]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117164#msg1117164 date=1276172357]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117153#msg1117153 date=1276171663]
Roy for me. Two main reasons for my choice.

Hodgson has a better record of late and would know the player market better than Kenny, we need to find some bargains like Hangelaand and have them step into the first team. Hodgson would be better at working within the confines of the budget, Kenny would be relying on others for this. Kenny's time out of the game would impede him.

I don't want Kenny's reputation to be tarnished in any way, shape or form. Taking the gig in these circumstances could be disastrous for him and the club.
[/quote]

Just so im super clear regarding "time out of the game" being a huge influence, what does this actually mean?

Surely the only negative can be losing track of the latest coaching/ fitness techniques - which isnt really a negative at all given that the 1st team coach runs well over 3/4s of the training....so what is actually being talked about?
[/quote]

I thought I made it clear, sorry.

I mean in terms of knowing good players in foreign leagues, I could be wrong but Kenny probably doesn't have the scouting network that Roy would have as he has been buying and selling in todays market. I wasn't referring to fitness/coaching at all. With all Roy's foreign experience, he may well know the European market better than Kenny, and considering we need to fill some key positions in our squad without having major cash to do that, Roy could be a better option than Kenny.
[/quote]

I suspect that if Kenny were to take over he would be wanting to bring in an assistant manager who could help with this.

I also imagine that he knows more about the modern game than you might be giving him credit for. He's not spent the last 10 years on the golf course. Football has been his life. I am sure he still knows his stuff.

I agree that Woy will have had more experience of looking for bargains though
[/quote]

But not bargains that work at the top of the Prem - there is a difference.

Its not like we have gazillions of pounds to throw at transfers, so Im not sure why Kenny would be at a disadvantage here. Also, Benitez was supposed to ahve one of the best scouting networks around, and look at the poop he signed.

 

[Wilko7]

The possibility of Kenny becoming our manager again reminds me of one of my first jobs.

I spent a year at an advertising firm selling space because I wanted to get good on the 'phone before moving into my career as a financial advisor. I worked on publications for Rangers and Celtic, Wigan and Widnes rugby clubs etc and sold my fair share as part of a group of 8. I was very excited when the firm announced that we were going to produce a LFC wallchart with advertisers around the perimeter, so much so that I sold EVERY SINGLE space.

I said pretty much the same thing over the phone however my passion and enthusiasm for this publication came across in my voice, something that cannot be manufactured or faked.

A manager has to sell the importance of playing for his team and their fans as well as his own philosophy on football. All the money in the world cannot buy the passion and enthusiasm that Kenny has for Liverpool. He's won the League four times in management and shares a quality that Mourinho also has, players want to play for him.

One other thing - the atmosphere at Anfield these past few years has been rather drab and there probably won't be much of a change should Roy be appointed. Imagine the knock on effect to the players witnessing Anfield thundering the old Dalglish! Dalglish! chant for their manager?

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Of course Richey, and like the Redknapp article says, he has been studying the game closely whilst he has been off, and that he still maintains a passionate interest. Perhaps Kenny would rely on the Scouts at the club, but I was think most of them would have been Rafa appointments. Would the club have their own scouts these days?

But if, as has been said, appointing Kenny will make Torres & Gerrard stay and appointing Roy will make them leave or at least make them think about leaving, then it's a no brainer. Liverpool - Torres + Gerrard = Everton.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117182#msg1117182 date=1276174149]
Of course Richey, and like the Redknapp article says, he has been studying the game closely whilst he has been off, and that he still maintains a passionate interest. Perhaps Kenny would rely on the Scouts at the club, but I was think most of them would have been Rafa appointments. Would the club have their own scouts these days?

But if, as has been said, appointing Kenny will make Torres & Gerrard stay and appointing Roy will make them leave or at least make them think about leaving, then it's a no brainer. Liverpool - Torres + Gerrard = Everton.
[/quote]

It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=40552.msg1117180#msg1117180 date=1276173981]
But not bargains that work at the top of the Prem - there is a difference.

Its not like we have gazillions of pounds to throw at transfers, so Im not sure why Kenny would be at a disadvantage here. Also, Benitez was supposed to have one of the best scouting networks around, and look at the poop he signed.
[/quote]

Perhaps, but we don't need the signings to be 'marquee' signings, we just need them to be competant players who can do their job well. We have the big names in the team already. The point I was making is that Roy would be better because of the financial constraints as he would be more aware of the players out there.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40552.msg1117184#msg1117184 date=1276174368]
It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.
[/quote]

Yes, better players have left us. But we were far less reliant on those better players at the time.
It's a completely different scenario now. I don't see how you can call Kenny a 'world class manager' when he hasn't managed a team in 10/12 years. He WAS a world class manager, but surely there is some doubt over his abilities at this stage?

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117188#msg1117188 date=1276174588]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40552.msg1117184#msg1117184 date=1276174368]
It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.
[/quote]

Yes, better players have left us. But we were far less reliant on those better players at the time.
It's a completely different scenario now. I don't see how you can call Kenny a 'world class manager' when he hasn't managed a team in 10/12 years. He WAS a world class manager, but surely there is some doubt over his abilities at this stage?
[/quote]

No more doubt than I'd have for any other manager in world football, and if it's a legitimate doubt, (which is only really fear of the unknown,) at least we know Kenny can manage a big club and more importantly, manage Liverpool. Take away his inactivity, it's a perfect fit.

 

[grjt]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40552.msg1117184#msg1117184 date=1276174368]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117182#msg1117182 date=1276174149]
Of course Richey, and like the Redknapp article says, he has been studying the game closely whilst he has been off, and that he still maintains a passionate interest. Perhaps Kenny would rely on the Scouts at the club, but I was think most of them would have been Rafa appointments. Would the club have their own scouts these days?

But if, as has been said, appointing Kenny will make Torres & Gerrard stay and appointing Roy will make them leave or at least make them think about leaving, then it's a no brainer. Liverpool - Torres + Gerrard = Everton.
[/quote]

It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.
[/quote]

Im not sure too many players better than Torres and Gerrard have left us.....

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117188#msg1117188 date=1276174588]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40552.msg1117184#msg1117184 date=1276174368]
It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.
[/quote]

Yes, better players have left us. But we were far less reliant on those better players at the time.
It's a completely different scenario now. I don't see how you can call Kenny a 'world class manager' when he hasn't managed a team in 10/12 years. He WAS a world class manager, but surely there is some doubt over his abilities at this stage?
[/quote]

Yes. Saying 'if they want to go, they can go' is the kind of thing we could have said with some confidence 20 years ago. Now it should be obvious to everyone that keeping those players is better than losing them as we have to get ourselves out of a shit situation and we know they will help us do it. The last thing we want a new manager to have to do as soon as he takes over is think about replacing our captain and our one decent goalscorer.

Kenny will still have the skills that made him a top manager without a doubt. He won't have suddenly become shit. The question is whether he is what we need at this time. He wouldn't be taking over a club who is anywhere near challenging or competing in the transfer market really. That is very different to what he would have been used to.

Personally I still want him to get the job. He knows what is going on at the club and would have considered all this I'm sure.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=40552.msg1117197#msg1117197 date=1276175346]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40552.msg1117188#msg1117188 date=1276174588]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40552.msg1117184#msg1117184 date=1276174368]
It's not about Torres and Gerrard though, is it? It's about who's best of the two to run the club. Like Barnsey said, if they want to leave, they can go, better players have left us.

Kenny is a better manager than Roy Hodgson, its a fact. Kenny is a world class manager and football man.
[/quote]

Yes, better players have left us. But we were far less reliant on those better players at the time.
It's a completely different scenario now. I don't see how you can call Kenny a 'world class manager' when he hasn't managed a team in 10/12 years. He WAS a world class manager, but surely there is some doubt over his abilities at this stage?
[/quote]

Yes. Saying 'if they want to go, they can go' is the kind of thing we could have said with some confidence 20 years ago. Now it should be obvious to everyone that keeping those players is better than losing them as we have to get ourselves out of a shit situation and we know they will help us do it. The last thing we want a new manager to have to do as soon as he takes over is think about replacing our captain and our one decent goalscorer.

Kenny will still have the skills that made him a top manager without a doubt. He won't have suddenly become shit. The question is whether he is what we need at this time. He wouldn't be taking over a club who is anywhere near challenging or competing in the transfer market really. That is very different to what he would have been used to.

Personally I still want him to get the job. He knows what is going on at the club and would have considered all this I'm sure.
[/quote]

For sure I agree we don't want to be replacing those players, but if they want to leave or their heart is elsewhere we have to move on is all I'm saying.

I think if we keep the players we have Kenny is capable of getting a challenging team within a short space of time, like next season. I think we underachieved last season and the players know that. I think Kenny is just the right Manager to help them make amends. Probably controversial, but I strongly believe that.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=40552.msg1117181#msg1117181 date=1276174055]
The possibility of Kenny becoming our manager again reminds me of one of my first jobs.

I spent a year at an advertising firm selling space because I wanted to get good on the 'phone before moving into my career as a financial advisor. I worked on publications for Rangers and Celtic, Wigan and Widnes rugby clubs etc and sold my fair share as part of a group of 8. I was very excited when the firm announced that we were going to produce a LFC wallchart with advertisers around the perimeter, so much so that I sold EVERY SINGLE space.

I said pretty much the same thing over the phone however my passion and enthusiasm for this publication came across in my voice, something that cannot be manufactured or faked.

A manager has to sell the importance of playing for his team and their fans as well as his own philosophy on football. All the money in the world cannot buy the passion and enthusiasm that Kenny has for Liverpool. He's won the League four times in management and shares a quality that Mourinho also has, players want to play for him.

One other thing - the atmosphere at Anfield these past few years has been rather drab and there probably won't be much of a change should Roy be appointed. Imagine the knock effect to the players witnessing Anfield thundering the old Dalglish! Dalglish! chant for their manager?
[/quote]

You've been inspiring me this week with your posts. Keep at it please.

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=40552.msg1117181#msg1117181 date=1276174055]
The possibility of Kenny becoming our manager again reminds me of one of my first jobs.

I spent a year at an advertising firm selling space because I wanted to get good on the 'phone before moving into my career as a financial advisor. I worked on publications for Rangers and Celtic, Wigan and Widnes rugby clubs etc and sold my fair share as part of a group of 8. I was very excited when the firm announced that we were going to produce a LFC wallchart with advertisers around the perimeter, so much so that I sold EVERY SINGLE space.

I said pretty much the same thing over the phone however my passion and enthusiasm for this publication came across in my voice, something that cannot be manufactured or faked.

A manager has to sell the importance of playing for his team and their fans as well as his own philosophy on football. All the money in the world cannot buy the passion and enthusiasm that Kenny has for Liverpool. He's won the League four times in management and shares a quality that Mourinho also has, players want to play for him.

One other thing - the atmosphere at Anfield these past few years has been rather drab and there probably won't be much of a change should Roy be appointed. Imagine the knock on effect to the players witnessing Anfield thundering the old Dalglish! Dalglish! chant for their manager?
[/quote]

Nice post Wilko

 

[Judge Jules]

Hear hear.

 

[keniget]

The problem with Kenny is that when I skim through threads I keep thinking people are talking about me.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=40552.msg1117257#msg1117257 date=1276179836]
The problem with Kenny is that when I skim through threads I keep thinking people are talking about me.
[/quote]
;D