Jesus...Suso....

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256282#msg1256282 date=1295377898]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43540.msg1256278#msg1256278 date=1295377730]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256272#msg1256272 date=1295377434]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43540.msg1256269#msg1256269 date=1295377308]
I rated Yossi and didn't want him to go, but I thought we were definitely getting a better player (Cole's best in the past was better than anything I've seen from Yossi) and it hasn't worked out that way. I still reckon Cole's a talented player and can do someone a good job, but it doesn't look like it'll be us now.

Oh well, at least we got some cash out of the Yossi deal.
[/quote]Not really.
We got 6m. Lets say we gave Cole a 2m signing on fee, the other 4m will have been eaten up by his huge wages in about 6 months.
So realistically we got rid of Yossi, signed Cole who we will now loan out, so effectively we lost Yossi and have no money to show for it.
[/quote]

Well in 6 months it's about half a mill. Plus we can still sell him.

I do miss Yossi though.
[/quote]Eh? 6 months Half a mill? How little do you think he earns? If he is on 100k a week its already cost us 2.8m to pay him for his amazing contributions so far.
If NESV have any sense, he, Jovanovic, Agger, Poulsen and Kuntch will be first out the fucking door.
[/quote]

the order I want shit players out the door

top = first out the door

1. poulsen
2. cuntchesky
3. jove
4. skrtel
5. lucas
6. cole
7. maxi
8. ngog
9. kuyt

we should cash in on the above and purchase players that not only reduce the wage bill but at the same time make us a more balanced effective team.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43540.msg1256314#msg1256314 date=1295380642]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256282#msg1256282 date=1295377898]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43540.msg1256278#msg1256278 date=1295377730]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256272#msg1256272 date=1295377434]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43540.msg1256269#msg1256269 date=1295377308]
I rated Yossi and didn't want him to go, but I thought we were definitely getting a better player (Cole's best in the past was better than anything I've seen from Yossi) and it hasn't worked out that way. I still reckon Cole's a talented player and can do someone a good job, but it doesn't look like it'll be us now.

Oh well, at least we got some cash out of the Yossi deal.
[/quote]Not really.
We got 6m. Lets say we gave Cole a 2m signing on fee, the other 4m will have been eaten up by his huge wages in about 6 months.
So realistically we got rid of Yossi, signed Cole who we will now loan out, so effectively we lost Yossi and have no money to show for it.
[/quote]

Well in 6 months it's about half a mill. Plus we can still sell him.

I do miss Yossi though.
[/quote]Eh? 6 months Half a mill? How little do you think he earns? If he is on 100k a week its already cost us 2.8m to pay him for his amazing contributions so far.
If NESV have any sense, he, Jovanovic, Agger, Poulsen and Kuntch will be first out the fucking door.
[/quote]

the order I want shit players out the door

top = first out the door

1. poulsen
2. cuntchesky
3. jove
4. skrtel
5. lucas
6. cole
7. maxi
8. ngog
9. kuyt

we should cash in on the above and purchase players that not only reduce the wage bill but at the same time make us a more balanced effective team.
[/quote]We have to sell Agger and buy a reliable centre back.

 

[jan]

Kuyt is not a shit player by any means.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I really like Agger Mr. Oncey - but unfortunately, he cannot stay healthy. If we get a big offer, we should sell. It's unfortunate because he could have been a really really good one (sorry KHL).

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1256319#msg1256319 date=1295380811]
I really like Agger Mr. Oncey - but unfortunately, he cannot stay healthy. If we get a big offer, we should sell. It's unfortunate because he could have been a really really good one (sorry KHL).
[/quote]Thats entirely my point. I think he's class. But its beyond a joke now. In a game, out a game, in a game, out for six games. ENOUGH.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256317#msg1256317 date=1295380735]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43540.msg1256314#msg1256314 date=1295380642]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256282#msg1256282 date=1295377898]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43540.msg1256278#msg1256278 date=1295377730]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256272#msg1256272 date=1295377434]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43540.msg1256269#msg1256269 date=1295377308]
I rated Yossi and didn't want him to go, but I thought we were definitely getting a better player (Cole's best in the past was better than anything I've seen from Yossi) and it hasn't worked out that way. I still reckon Cole's a talented player and can do someone a good job, but it doesn't look like it'll be us now.

Oh well, at least we got some cash out of the Yossi deal.
[/quote]Not really.
We got 6m. Lets say we gave Cole a 2m signing on fee, the other 4m will have been eaten up by his huge wages in about 6 months.
So realistically we got rid of Yossi, signed Cole who we will now loan out, so effectively we lost Yossi and have no money to show for it.
[/quote]

Well in 6 months it's about half a mill. Plus we can still sell him.

I do miss Yossi though.
[/quote]Eh? 6 months Half a mill? How little do you think he earns? If he is on 100k a week its already cost us 2.8m to pay him for his amazing contributions so far.
If NESV have any sense, he, Jovanovic, Agger, Poulsen and Kuntch will be first out the fucking door.
[/quote]

the order I want shit players out the door

top = first out the door

1. poulsen
2. cuntchesky
3. jove
4. skrtel
5. lucas
6. cole
7. maxi
8. ngog
9. kuyt

we should cash in on the above and purchase players that not only reduce the wage bill but at the same time make us a more balanced effective team.
[/quote]We have to sell Agger and buy a reliable centre back.
[/quote]

I would be nervous releasing two first team center backs in one transfer window.
I have no problem with releasing two holding midfielders in one trnafer window because they are both shit.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=jan link=topic=43540.msg1256318#msg1256318 date=1295380793]
Kuyt is not a shit player by any means.
[/quote]

he isn't shit that's true but is WAY past time we bought a right midfielder to play on the right midfield or at the very least play someone where who will give you width, that's not kuyt.
kuyt should either be played up front or fucked off.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

2 days neil... I win 😉

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43540.msg1256333#msg1256333 date=1295382594]
2 days neil... I win 😉
[/quote]

have I lost a bet? 😉

 

[SaintGeorge67]

A moral one.

Centre.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43540.msg1256338#msg1256338 date=1295382722]
A moral one.

Centre.
[/quote]

ha! ;D

 

[jan]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43540.msg1256325#msg1256325 date=1295381191]
[quote author=jan link=topic=43540.msg1256318#msg1256318 date=1295380793]
Kuyt is not a shit player by any means.
[/quote]

he isn't shit that's true but is WAY past time we bought a right midfielder to play on the right midfield or at the very least play someone where who will give you width, that's not kuyt.
kuyt should either be played up front or fucked off.
[/quote]

He has proven he can be effective on the right several times for club and country. I agree that on current form he shouldn't be starting games but in general he's one of those players that are good enough, we definitely have more players who should be sold before him and even if we replaced him he'd be a useful squad player.

Besides, we're thankfully not playing 4-4-2 anymore but a formation that suits him much better and (as we've been saying for years now, heh) with someone fast and skillful on the left Kuyt should be the least of our problems.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Suso -> Rafa Yoof policy -> Yossi -> Dagger -> Kuyt

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1256184#msg1256184 date=1295372149]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256079#msg1256079 date=1295368191]
No they couldnt. Because those young hungry 20-22 year olds werent good enough.
If your argument is that Rafa signed a lot of mid range duds, you will get no argument from me. But to imply he did that at the expense of promoting youth is daft when we now know that none of that self same pool of youth who he relatively ignored is/was or ever will be good enough to take the places of those self same mediocre flops. [/quote]

Wait - so you think Aurelio is that much better than Warnock? Or that Voronin provided more than Mellor did? Or that Jova did more than FSP? Or Insua over Dossena? And there are more examples ... You've seen Ross's stats wrt our wage bill ... That could have been avoided quite easily if it weren't for these 'mediocre flops'
[/quote]

i don't want to get on rosco's back about this yet again, but i really don't think that's true. i mean i think the general point's sound - we could and should have been spending less on wages - but the idea that this was somehow down to benitez is a bit dodgy because

1. our wages as a % of turnover stayed in line with or lower than it had been under houllier.
2. our wages as a % of turnover stayed roughly in line with other clubs like man utd and arsenal.

so you see the flaw in the line that if only we had deviated from benitez's chosen transfer policy we would have significantly reduced our wage bill, when that hadn't been true either of the time before his arrival or of rival clubs who weren't burdened by his management?

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Not sure if it has been posted or not (I seen a Rafa row kicked off and I'm fucked if I'm reading 7/8 pages of that shit again) but Suso & Coady were not promoted. They are on a Melwood introductory scheme, they are there for 3/4 days and train with the first team but they go back after. Two lads were on it last week and two lads go next week. It's a policy that Rafa introduced apparently.

 

[Avmenon]

His wage bill argument isnt really one of amount spent in proportion to earnings or turnover made at the club though; I think it's in relation to the quality of squad which doesnt correlate to expenditure.

Granted, he has often spoken about reducing the wage bill etc, but if we had spent better we'd be in a far better position...maybe winning trophies and being even more profitable and marketable.

I'm not sure about his figures; but the statistic about having a wage bill double that of Spurs is shocking if true, especially considering our squad is utterly shite in comparison to theirs.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=43540.msg1256380#msg1256380 date=1295387110]
Not sure if it has been posted or not (I seen a Rafa row kicked off and I'm fucked if I'm reading 7/8 pages of that shit again) but Suso & Coady were not promoted. They are on a Melwood introductory scheme, they are there for 3/4 days and train with the first team but they go back after. Two lads were on it last week and two lads go next week. It's a policy that Rafa introduced apparently.
[/quote]

Hmmm can someone tell Konceshky and Poulsen that their week is over long time ago??

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Haha

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43540.msg1256378#msg1256378 date=1295386796]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1256184#msg1256184 date=1295372149]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=43540.msg1256079#msg1256079 date=1295368191]
No they couldnt. Because those young hungry 20-22 year olds werent good enough.
If your argument is that Rafa signed a lot of mid range duds, you will get no argument from me. But to imply he did that at the expense of promoting youth is daft when we now know that none of that self same pool of youth who he relatively ignored is/was or ever will be good enough to take the places of those self same mediocre flops. [/quote]

Wait - so you think Aurelio is that much better than Warnock? Or that Voronin provided more than Mellor did? Or that Jova did more than FSP? Or Insua over Dossena? And there are more examples ... You've seen Ross's stats wrt our wage bill ... That could have been avoided quite easily if it weren't for these 'mediocre flops'
[/quote]

i don't want to get on rosco's back about this yet again, but i really don't think that's true. i mean i think the general point's sound - we could and should have been spending less on wages - but the idea that this was somehow down to benitez is a bit dodgy because

1. our wages as a % of turnover stayed in line with or lower than it had been under houllier.
2. our wages as a % of turnover stayed roughly in line with other clubs like man utd and arsenal.

so you see the flaw in the line that if only we had deviated from benitez's chosen transfer policy we would have significantly reduced our wage bill, when that hadn't been true either of the time before his arrival or of rival clubs who weren't burdened by his management?


[/quote]

60% isn't roughly in line with 46% and 49%.

And I take issue with Benitez having a policy. There's no evidence of there being any strategic thinking in our deals. It was panic and spend everything possible, every year.

 

[peterhague]

LFC wages/turnover percentages:

2000/01 - 59.5%
2001/02 - 56.8%
2002/03 - 53.1%
2003/04 - 60.0%
2004/05 - 52.4%
2005/06 - 57.6%
2006/07 - 57.9%
2007/08 - 56.4%
2008/09 - N/A
2009/10 - 60% (reported)


Arsenal:

2004/05 - 53.6%
2005/06 - 58.6%
2006/07 - 63.2%
2007/08 - 52.7%

Newcastle:

2004/05 - 57.7%
2005/06 - 62.8%
2006/07 - 71.7%
2007/08 - 75.0%

i don't give the figures for chelsea - because they're an anomaly - and man utd, because tbf the only ones i have give the turnover figure for the club only, which is well below the full plc figure and therefore distorts the percentage. so their % is probably well below ours - although of course that's in large part due to their huge turnover compared to ours, not something anyone managing the football sides of either clubs have any control over. spurs do clearly do much better than every other club, and therefore i accept that we should have been striving more towards their standards; what's equally clear is that spurs are exceptional and that ALL other clubs fail in comparison, which tends to remove benitez from the line of fire when looking for an explanation.

Spurs

2004/05 - 47.0%
2005/06 - 54.8%
2006/07 - 42.6%
2007/08 - 46.1%

 

[Modo]

Wonder what Brendan is gonna call Suso if he fails:

Sucko?
Cunto?
Frodo?

 

[Niall K]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=43540.msg1256418#msg1256418 date=1295390107]
Wonder what Brendan is gonna call Suso if he fails:

Sucko?
Cunto?
Frodo?

[/quote]

When he sees that list he might have a few names for you.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Niall K link=topic=43540.msg1256420#msg1256420 date=1295390223]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43540.msg1256418#msg1256418 date=1295390107]
Wonder what Brendan is gonna call Suso if he fails:

Sucko?
Cunto?
Frodo?

[/quote]

When he sees that list he might have a few names for you.
[/quote]

I'm already "the posters thats wrong about everything" and a cunt, so it's OK.

 

[Niall K]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=43540.msg1256427#msg1256427 date=1295390418]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=43540.msg1256420#msg1256420 date=1295390223]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43540.msg1256418#msg1256418 date=1295390107]
Wonder what Brendan is gonna call Suso if he fails:

Sucko?
Cunto?
Frodo?

[/quote]

When he sees that list he might have a few names for you.
[/quote]

I'm already "the posters thats wrong about everything" and a cunt, so it's OK.
[/quote]

Oh....Then you wont mind

 

[SaintGeorge67]

All I can think of is bluto (the popeye chap).

*gets coat*

 

[Buddha]

So-so.

 

[Oncy]

Poo-so.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43540.msg1256442#msg1256442 date=1295391370]
So-so.
[/quote]

Nice one.

Suckso is another possibility.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43540.msg1256411#msg1256411 date=1295389684]
LFC wages/turnover percentages:

2000/01 - 59.5%
2001/02 - 56.8%
2002/03 - 53.1%
2003/04 - 60.0%
2004/05 - 52.4%
2005/06 - 57.6%
2006/07 - 57.9%
2007/08 - 56.4%
2008/09 - N/A
2009/10 - 60% (reported)


Arsenal:

2004/05 - 53.6%
2005/06 - 58.6%
2006/07 - 63.2%
2007/08 - 52.7%

Newcastle:

2004/05 - 57.7%
2005/06 - 62.8%
2006/07 - 71.7%
2007/08 - 75.0%

i don't give the figures for chelsea - because they're an anomaly - and man utd, because tbf the only ones i have give the turnover figure for the club only, which is well below the full plc figure and therefore distorts the percentage. so their % is probably well below ours - although of course that's in large part due to their huge turnover compared to ours, not something anyone managing the football sides of either clubs have any control over. spurs do clearly do much better than every other club, and therefore i accept that we should have been striving more towards their standards; what's equally clear is that spurs are exceptional and that ALL other clubs fail in comparison, which tends to remove benitez from the line of fire when looking for an explanation.

Spurs

2004/05 - 47.0%
2005/06 - 54.8%
2006/07 - 42.6%
2007/08 - 46.1%


[/quote]

Yeah it's not Benitez's fault our squad is shit and our wage bill is 120m.

He had nothing to do with signing anyone, ever.

 

[peterhague]

i never said either of those had nothing to do with benitez. maybe you want to disagree with something i actually said next time?

for the record, though, and just to start you off, i'm still a little confused as to why he takes the blame for the size of our wage bill. you really think managing the club's single biggest budget came within his remit? or maybe, just maybe, there's a chance that it was someone above him that sanctioned deals like glen johnson's £100k a week? by the same token, i guess you credit martin jol and sergio ramos with spurs' excellent finances?

sorry to be testing these theories of yours with anything so cunning as basic common sense btw.