James Lawton Article

[Squiggles]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076390#msg1076390 date=1269529230]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39473.msg1076378#msg1076378 date=1269527646]
Look, if you spend £36M from a recouped £33M, it's *still*, surprisingly, £36M, and should be judged as such.

Sure if you're net send isn't high you cannot ask for a massive improvement - nobody did - but the very least you can ask for is to stay as a constant, to challenge for the league once more, to be there fighting until the end.

Not to fucking disintegrate as we have done. Not to find ourselves out of every meaningful competition by Christmas. Not to have to travel to fucking Romania to play a bunch of farmers and mechanics come January.

This season Rafa has paid the price for pissing away huge amounts of money in the last two years, and he should fall on his sword for it.

(Oh and great post SR. Rebel's lunacy needed addressing, and not that'll change the deranged cunt, it's still a cracking effort)
[/quote]
Couldn't disagree more.

How can you ever improve your squad when all you do is filling the gaps?

It's a shambels and I'm surprised to see how many posters on here that believes £3M should've sufficed.
[/quote]

Our squad didn't NEED improving. He needed to get in to a level to how were previously, to make us stay the same when we finished second.

Now look at the league table to see how he got on.

Have United "improved" this year, KHL? No - they didn't have to. See how they're getting along while you're at it.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076390#msg1076390 date=1269529230]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39473.msg1076378#msg1076378 date=1269527646]
Look, if you spend £36M from a recouped £33M, it's *still*, surprisingly, £36M, and should be judged as such.

Sure if you're net send isn't high you cannot ask for a massive improvement - nobody did - but the very least you can ask for is to stay as a constant, to challenge for the league once more, to be there fighting until the end.

Not to fucking disintegrate as we have done. Not to find ourselves out of every meaningful competition by Christmas. Not to have to travel to fucking Romania to play a bunch of farmers and mechanics come January.

This season Rafa has paid the price for pissing away huge amounts of money in the last two years, and he should fall on his sword for it.

(Oh and great post SR. Rebel's lunacy needed addressing, and not that'll change the deranged cunt, it's still a cracking effort)
[/quote]
Couldn't disagree more.

How can you ever improve your squad when all you do is filling the gaps?

It's a shambels and I'm surprised to see how many posters on here that believes £3M should've sufficed.
[/quote]

Although I do agree the amount he has been given recently isn't enough. The point is that we have gone down so far, that there's no question that we are even the same as last year. It is more than a blip and it is more than a few injuries excuses.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39473.msg1076372#msg1076372 date=1269526001]
Spidey, we've gone backwards this season mate. Maybe next season we'll see the true worth of Johnson & Aquilani (prays).
[/quote]

rafa isn't blameless, I thought rafa passing on alves for kuyt (with crouch already on the books) and pennent was fucking IDOICY but ALL managers make fuck ups.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076390#msg1076390 date=1269529230]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39473.msg1076378#msg1076378 date=1269527646]
Look, if you spend £36M from a recouped £33M, it's *still*, surprisingly, £36M, and should be judged as such.

Sure if you're net send isn't high you cannot ask for a massive improvement - nobody did - but the very least you can ask for is to stay as a constant, to challenge for the league once more, to be there fighting until the end.

Not to fucking disintegrate as we have done. Not to find ourselves out of every meaningful competition by Christmas. Not to have to travel to fucking Romania to play a bunch of farmers and mechanics come January.

This season Rafa has paid the price for pissing away huge amounts of money in the last two years, and he should fall on his sword for it.

(Oh and great post SR. Rebel's lunacy needed addressing, and not that'll change the deranged cunt, it's still a cracking effort)
[/quote]
Couldn't disagree more.

How can you ever improve your squad when all you do is filling the gaps?

It's a shambels and I'm surprised to see how many posters on here that believes £3M should've sufficed.
[/quote]

I addressed this point with Spider, perhaps you have an answer?

"Whilst I agree with the mathematics that he's spent what he's sold (+3M), your notion that the squad can't be improved without a net spend is erroneous and an insult to the notion of "managament".

If you sell Anelka for 22m.. and then buy Henry, Vieira and Pires for a combined 22m.. you've improved the squad."

 

[Richey]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076388#msg1076388 date=1269529009]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=39473.msg1076354#msg1076354 date=1269524121]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076343#msg1076343 date=1269523293]
£3M - the entire Seasons transferbudget. And we're not even Rochdale.

£3M + recouped money on one of the best midfielders around which you of course you would've used much wiser - brought in loads of talent from around the globe all ready to take over Alonso's position from day one. (Bare in mind of course you've just spunked £17M on Johnson whom you reckon was a good buy so that leaves you with £16M)

Can't wait to hear your strategy on this one.

It's silly really. You ask for people to stop beeing so blinkered in their defense of Rafa when all you do is beeing the exact same in your criticism. Blinkered.
[/quote]

The summer's transfer budget was not 3 million. It was 36 million. That is what was spent was it not? Or did we buy 3 international players for just 3 million? Don't think we did.
Haha.. nice
You seem to be under some strange impression that the only money that counts is extra money that comes other than from player sales. That is not the case at all. Wherever it comes from, money was made available and spent, and those players are judged on their performance NOT on how their transfer fees were raised.

As I said before, it would have been dead lovely to have had loads of cash to bring in other players but we didn't have that so we had to deal with what we did have, which was still a sizeable amount, and IMO that was largely wasted. And for the record yes I do think that Johnson is a good player. I may or may not have paid that much money for him but I was trying to give Benitez the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Oh, and if you don't mind young man I would rather not take lessons on being blinkered from someone who essentially foams at the mouth with rage whenever the name Jose Mourinho is mentioned, who in all seriousness takes any chance he can to suggest that Michael Laudrup should be our new manager despite his extremely average record, who recently suggested that Daniel Agger should be our captain and who, when faced with a team last season who were collapsing defensively praised them for 'reinventing football'
[/quote]

"Young man"... someones pulling out the big insults eh?

Anyways you think £3M is enough on top of what you sell I think it's humiliating for a club of ours size and recent history. Would've thought any half decent poster would've agreed with that, but hey there you are..

Richey you are a right bellend at times. And a blinkered one too.

As you were.
[/quote]

So you are complaining that I DIDN'T insult you??? Er, okay then. I could call you names if you like but then considering that all we have done is disagree about football then it would seem rather unnecessary to do so. You clearly believe differently. Oh well.

On the matter in hand though I will again reiterate my point as you don't quite seem to be getting it. I would obviously have liked to have seen the club have more money to spend, but the fact is there was not, and we can either cry about that or look at what the manager did with the money that was available. Those players he signed were still his choices, he still bought them and he is therefore still judged on them!

If expecting a manager to make the best use of resources of £36 million (which is what he had regardless of where it came from, I am sure you will agree) makes me a 'bellend' then so be it.

 

[Le Chacal]

Ahem, the article is spot on and is just stating the obvious...

*whistles*

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=KHL]"Young man"... someones pulling out the big insults eh?

Anyways you think £3M is enough on top of what you sell I think it's humiliating for a club of ours size and recent history. Would've thought any half decent poster would've agreed with that, but hey there you are..

Richey you are a right bellend at times. And a blinkered one too.

As you were.
[/quote]

I don't think you'll find anyone who'll disagree that Rafa should have been backed more.

However, the issue for me is this: last years squad looked good enough to win the title - had we turned a few more draws into wins. This years squad looks hapless and is languishing in obscurity.

Granted, we've struggled with injuries this year, and granted all new players need time to adjust - but is that enough to explain the gulf between this year and last year? Okay, £3M is not enough to improve the squad, but £36M should be enough to keep it at around the same level, shouldn't it?

We've gone so far backwards it's unreal, and questions are being asked without really being answered.

Also, there's the concern that these players are leaving - Sami you can understand (though in hindsight he would have got games) but Xabi and Arbeloa were both guaranteed starters. Admittedly it was Real Madrid and they're both Spanish - but surely the lure of winning the Premiership and restoring Liverpool back at the top should hold some kind of sway?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39473.msg1076454#msg1076454 date=1269535769]
[quote author=KHL]"Young man"... someones pulling out the big insults eh?

Anyways you think £3M is enough on top of what you sell I think it's humiliating for a club of ours size and recent history. Would've thought any half decent poster would've agreed with that, but hey there you are..

Richey you are a right bellend at times. And a blinkered one too.

As you were.
[/quote]

I don't think you'll find anyone who'll disagree that Rafa should have been backed more.

However, the issue for me is this: last years squad looked good enough to win the title - had we turned a few more draws into wins. This years squad looks hapless and is languishing in obscurity.

Granted, we've struggled with injuries this year, and granted all new players need time to adjust - but is that enough to explain the gulf between this year and last year? Okay, £3M is not enough to improve the squad, but £36M should be enough to keep it at around the same level, shouldn't it?

We've gone so far backwards it's unreal, and questions are being asked without really being answered.

Also, there's the concern that these players are leaving - Sami you can understand (though in hindsight he would have got games) but Xabi and Arbeloa were both guaranteed starters. Admittedly it was Real Madrid and they're both Spanish - but surely the lure of winning the Premiership and restoring Liverpool back at the top should hold some kind of sway?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

[/quote]

Must be a Laudrup.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39473.msg1076318#msg1076318 date=1269521361]
@Singlerider

You argue that Rafa got money to spend that he was even 'backed by the owners' and then you come up with an example of how he got a staggering £3M to spend last Summer ?

What?

Anyways if that's actually true.. is it really? Then it's downright abysmal. Not talking blame from Rafa's shoulders here but fuck me £3M? That's even lesser than the top-clubs in the Danish League get to spend.

Add to this that Maxi came on a free in January.

That's a NET SPEND of £3M in a Season where we were in a supposedly better position than ever to challenge?

That's just fucking wrong no matter how you see it.
[/quote]

You read through Dan's post (which was excellent), and all you take from it is 'net spend 0f 3.5 million'?

Incredible.

 

[Richey]

Indeed Avvy, yet apparently I'm the one who is blinkered and deserving of insults!

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39473.msg1076414#msg1076414 date=1269530666]
Ahem, the article is spot on and is just stating the obvious...

*whistles*
[/quote]

Assuming that's the case you seem particularly happy about it. How strange.

 

[Le Chacal]

I'm not happy at all, this is a disastrous season and thats mainly Rafa's fault.
I was the first to say that giving him such a contract was silly and a massive mistake.
Looks like I wasnt far off the mark.

He lost us the CL final in 2007, the league last season and now we will likely miss out on CL football next season.
Its time for a change.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39473.msg1076500#msg1076500 date=1269543196]
I'm not happy at all, this is a disastrous season and thats mainly Rafa's fault.
I was the first to say that giving him such a contract was silly and a massive mistake.
Looks like I wasnt far off the mark.

He lost us the CL final in 2007, the league last season and now we will likely miss out on CL football next season.
Its time for a change.
[/quote]

OK you can go back to whistling smugly.

 

[jexykrodic]

Rosco, beyond the obvious irritation you have with the ample evidence provided elsewhere (including links which others in this thread have accessed) about total spending what's this:

"Jexy did an about face recently from his "no manager can be expected to win when he can't spend more than everyone else" when he admitted Mourinho could probably do it "

Where did I say that or even imply it?

I did say:

I can't keep faith with Rafa now. It's plain that some players are working with him and others are not. I don't know what has gone on but I don't want to see Rafa humiliated. Once a rift has formed it will be nigh on impossible to restore trust without a complete change. It's simply easier to change a Manager.

I would rather Rafa move on. At present he would no doubt command a job at many continental clubs where his reputation remains intact.

The real conundrum is who we might get, if we could attract Mourinho great, but I suspect we'll get a 'young Manager with potential' and remain in the doldrums for years

Just for the record I do think Benitez has brought in decent players at the club and I do think that Mourinho could inspire them to reach the top 4 goal set for Benitez. As for winning the title, yes, you'll need to spend more. And again I don't agree with Lawton, I think our problems are bigger than just Benitez.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=39473.msg1076723#msg1076723 date=1269594199]

Just for the record I do think Benitez has brought in decent players at the club and I do think that Mourinho could inspire them to reach the top 4 goal set for Benitez. As for winning the title, yes, you'll need to spend more. And again I don't agree with Lawton, I think our problems are bigger than just Benitez.
[/quote]

Spot on.