It's time to play 10 vs 10

[manwithnoname]

Says Tony Cascarino in The Times.

Paraphrasing:

After watching the dull stalemate of Euro 2016, in which super-fit athletes like Pogba, Matuidi, Ronaldo, Sissoko, Mario etc ran about at full pelt for 120 minutes, suffocating any space or time on the ball, it's now time to make the pitch bigger, or play with less men.

Hmmm.

I think he does have a point in there somewhere. The likes of Pogba appear so highly rated largely because of his physicality. I asked what Gerrard would be worth if Pogba was £100m, and someone said "the same".

As if. Gerrard is far more technically skilled, a better passer, and scores more goals.

But does this new, larger, fitter generation of footballers make it harder for less physically blessed footballers?

I dunno. Messi and Barca always gave lie to that, but perhaps things are changing? I've always been bored shitless by a lot of the tippy-tappy ball recycling horsehit that Rodgers talked about, because I love seeing tackles and players smashing into eachother, but equally I'd be sent to sleep just watching 11 barely skilled "runners" charging all over the place.

A bit of both would be ideal.

Anyway, is there any merit in what he's saying?

 

[JurgenKlopp]

There's perhaps some merit in taking people off in ET if trying to get a result before getting to the penalties. Removing a player every 10 mins. I'm sure it has been looked at though. Personally I like penalties as a deciding factor, great drama

 

[Pesam]

Yes, I was saying the same thing in the pub the other day; either increase the minimum dimensions of the pitches (which is problematic because some older grounds would struggle to accommodate this) or go down to 10 a-side.

Over the last 6 or 7 seasons there's been seemingly a decline in the amount of great players on show but I think it's got more to do with the fact that teams are far fitter and there is less room for the skillful players to show their wares and "wow" us. Suarez, Ronaldo and Messi can still do it because they are THAT good but the next rung down (the Figo's, Rui Costa's, Hagi's, Riquelme's etc) of the modern game are struggling to find the space in which to create.

I've always loved the combative, aggression of a Mascherano, Makelele, Keane etc but nowadays teams seem to focus too much on closing play down and demanding even the creative players close down the opposition. Players like Mata, Silva, Coutinho, Carzola etc are finding it tougher and tougher to find space and might someday soon be deemed surplus to requirement.

It could be that it's just football evolving and a new breed of hard working creative types c/f Payet, Mahrez etc are the future but i think long term the game will suffer if we don't find away to promote skill over hard work.

Sorry it's a bit garbled but I'm busy.......but in essence, yes I'm generally in favour of 10-aside.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Less teams and the quality improves.

When teams can sit back and defend for thier lives when 3 draws and the 3rd place gets you into the next round.

 

[Frogfish]

One idea I've toyed with is to increase the width of the goal by 6 inches and raise the bar by 3". Most of those shots hitting the post/bar would be goals and the entertainment factor double overnight. It would create a fundamental change to the way teams attack and a 10 man defence would not be nearly as effective.

Secondly there absolutely needs to be more protection for attacking players. Defenders/midfielders are happy to haul them down and take a yellow. If they were sent to a sin-bin for 15 minutes it may well change the way defenders 'tackle'.

 

[Kay Age El]

It's time to stop with this nonsense.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

One idea I've toyed with is to increase the width of the goal by 6 inches and raise the bar by 3". Most of those shots hitting the post/bar would be goals and the entertainment factor double overnight. It would create a fundamental change to the way teams attack and a 10 man defence would not be nearly as effective.

Secondly there absolutely needs to be more protection for attacking players. Defenders/midfielders are happy to haul them down and take a yellow. If they were sent to a sin-bin for 15 minutes it may well change the way defenders 'tackle'.

Definitely agree with sin-bins for maybe 10 minutes. It would go a long way to eliminating those "good yellow" fouls that stop counter attacks. Weaker referees would struggle to book players though.

 

[Arn]

The 11 vs 11 rule is around 150 years old. The players is faster, stronger and much better trained now. It the same problem in Icehockey. 5 vs 5 should now be 4 vs 4 or the rink should be bigger.

Old rules that need to be changed to fit the times. If you don't change the rules then you will see a lot more injuries. In Icehockey a lot more head injuries for example because the players are stronger and quicker now.

 

[Pesam]

One idea I've toyed with is to increase the width of the goal by 6 inches and raise the bar by 3". Most of those shots hitting the post/bar would be goals and the entertainment factor double overnight. It would create a fundamental change to the way teams attack and a 10 man defence would not be nearly as effective.

Secondly there absolutely needs to be more protection for attacking players. Defenders/midfielders are happy to haul them down and take a yellow. If they were sent to a sin-bin for 15 minutes it may well change the way defenders 'tackle'.

2 reasons why the sin-bin ideal could work; firstly the team who have been sinned against get the advantage rather than now when a team gets little advantage from an opposition player receiving a yellow card or a late red card and sometimes it can disadvantage them..........if a player for Team A receives his 5th yellow of the season against Team 5 but his ban kicks in against Team C in the next game who are the arch rivals of Team B. Secondly, as you mention, it would make more space on the pitch because defensive minded players would be more cautious in the tackle or they'd be in the sin-bin.

Also I have no problem with enlarging the goal within reason, the dimensions were proclaimed over 100 years ago and the average height of the average person is at least 5cm taller, so yeah lets also have an extra few cm's all around.

 

[Pesam]

The 11 vs 11 rule is around 150 years old. The players is faster, stronger and much better trained now. It the same problem in Icehockey. 5 vs 5 should now be 4 vs 4 or the rink should be bigger.

Old rules that need to be changed to fit the times. If you don't change the rules then you will see a lot more injuries. In Icehockey a lot more head injuries for example because the players are stronger and quicker now.

Ice Hockey is 6 v 6.

 

[Arn]

You could easily find 20+ yellow card situations in almost every game in the PL. It isn't only what is already been mentioned all the tactical fouls. All the stamping on the opposition players foot should always be a yellow card. A lot of it in every game.

The first 10 minutes or so in almost every PL game is a joke when it comes down to yellow/red cards. It is almost free hunting time. The players get away with it because it is early in the game.

The players don't give a shit about fair play. They don't give a shit if a ref talks to them. Stop all the talking to the players. Give them the message they care about, a yellow/red card.

 

[Arn]

Ice Hockey is 6 v 6.

Maybe they should play without a goaltender. Would be a lot more goals.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

The 11 vs 11 rule is around 150 years old. The players is faster, stronger and much better trained now. It the same problem in Icehockey. 5 vs 5 should now be 4 vs 4 or the rink should be bigger.

Old rules that need to be changed to fit the times. If you don't change the rules then you will see a lot more injuries. In Icehockey a lot more head injuries for example because the players are stronger and quicker now.

I have to say - the NHL's OT rule of 4 vs 4 is fucking great but it would be crazy for a 60 minute game!

 

[Athens]

Erect giant chain link fences to stop the ball going out of player. Players can shoulder tackle opposition players against them without fear of injury. Plus the attacking player will be able to do cheeky little one twos with the fence like in five a side matches.

 

[manwithnoname]

All we need now is someone to suggest removing all of the rules entirely, and we'll have Rollerball!

 

[Markeh]

I don't think increasing the goal size works if those goals end up in every park and kids / amateurs have to use them.

Sin bin is great, I'm sick of the bullshit attack killing fouls. The only thing I'd fear is that the resulting power play ruins the flow of an otherwise good game with 5 minutes of park the bus.

What about dropping the offside rule? Something to shake the tactics up.

 

[Jerry Laser]

I think nowadays more training is put into a players being able to be mobile around the pitch rather than being a skilled ball player.

Surely if we went back to old techniques of playing 1 touch football at pace even the most athletic of teams should still lose?

Its a shame, you dont really see many teams that play one touch football anymore.... its all run with the ball half the time.

 

[Mors]

Semi related, but didn't they decide on the size of the goals based on the height of the goalkeepers back then being about 5'6" or something? Think that probably needs looking at.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Ice Hockey is 6 v 6.

Yes but we call it 5v5. The presence of the goaltender is taken for granted.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yes but we call it 5v5. The presence of the goaltender is taken for granted.

Ah, so we already play 10 vs 10? This is all most confusing.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Something to be taken into consideration is unintended consequences. Any of the above suggestions (larger net, fewer players, sin bin) could prompt less skilled teams to play even more ultra-defensive. Teams will do whatever they can to maximize their results - and some ugly, ugly play could be the ultimate yield

 

[darkstarexodus]

Ah, so we already play 10 vs 10? This is all most confusing.

Maybe us Canadians find it easier to count one less? Counting in the fingers of one hand, sticking to only 5 leaves the whole other hand free to hold a beer

 

[manwithnoname]

Maybe us Canadians find it easier to count one less? Counting in the fingers of one hand, sticking to only 5 leaves the whole other hand free to hold a beer

The beauty of the decimal system, in one post.

 

[RedStar]

I remember reading a book about Brazillian football years ago where Socrates was asked why the modern game was nowhere near as free flowing, his answer was that fitness levels had risen to the point where it was very difficult for creative players to get time and space on the ball so the only solution was to reduce the number of players. At the time I thought it was crazy but you can see the progression as teams get fitter and more organised defensively it becomes more and more static.

One less dramatic solution I saw suggested recently was to have a minimum number of players who must remain in the opposition half at any one time, lets say 2, meaning a team can never put 10 outfield players behind the ball and just crowd out the attacking team. It sounds more workable that dropping the numbers to 10 players a side.

 

[Athens]

That could be an idea, make sure at least two players as in the opposition half at all times. Reduce the area to where you can be offside to the penalty area.

 

[Mersey86]

I remember reading a book about Brazillian football years ago where Socrates was asked why the modern game was nowhere near as free flowing, his answer was that fitness levels had risen to the point where it was very difficult for creative players to get time and space on the ball so the only solution was to reduce the number of players.

That Socrates was a smart guy.

 

[juniormember]

I remember reading a book about Brazillian football years ago where Socrates was asked why the modern game was nowhere near as free flowing, his answer was that fitness levels had risen to the point where it was very difficult for creative players to get time and space on the ball so the only solution was to reduce the number of players. At the time I thought it was crazy but you can see the progression as teams get fitter and more organised defensively it becomes more and more static.

One less dramatic solution I saw suggested recently was to have a minimum number of players who must remain in the opposition half at any one time, lets say 2, meaning a team can never put 10 outfield players behind the ball and just crowd out the attacking team. It sounds more workable that dropping the numbers to 10 players a side.

Couldn't the defenders always stay in the opposition half to make sure those attackers are offside in cases of quick counter attacks?

 

[Athens]

Couldn't the defenders always stay in the opposition half to make sure those attackers are offside in cases of quick counter attacks?

That's why I reckon make the opposition penalty area the only place you can be offside in.

 

[juniormember]

That's why I reckon make the opposition penalty area the only place you can be offside in.

So basically end high defensive lines yeah? A couple of forwards would always be waiting around the penalty area with 3 defenders at least sticking around the penalty area when their team is attacking.
Wonder what the likes of Klopp would do, as pressing high up the pitch in numbers would go out the window.

 

[Frogfish]

Something to be taken into consideration is unintended consequences. Any of the above suggestions (larger net, fewer players, sin bin) could prompt less skilled teams to play even more ultra-defensive. Teams will do whatever they can to maximize their results - and some ugly, ugly play could be the ultimate yield

Yeah but then all three of the above would apply, if we start with larger goals the poor team becomes ultra-defensive and gets players sent to the sin-bin, resulting in fewer players !