Is Kenny paying the price ...
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I think it's fair enough to talk about the backroom staff. It's just that personally I'd struggle because I don't really know what any of them do. I can speculate based on their job descriptions but that's all it'd be - speculation. It'd be very interesting to gain a deeper understanding of who is responsible for what though.
Comolli and Kenny are the public faces of the management team however, so it's them who get questioned the most and rightly so to be honest. If, for example, I have to deal with a particular company and they've let me down, I don't really care if one of their suppliers or partners are ultimately to blame. It's up to them to ensure that doesn't happen and if it does, they have an effective way of dealing with it.
Comolli and Kenny are the public faces of the management team however, so it's them who get questioned the most and rightly so to be honest. If, for example, I have to deal with a particular company and they've let me down, I don't really care if one of their suppliers or partners are ultimately to blame. It's up to them to ensure that doesn't happen and if it does, they have an effective way of dealing with it.
So first you make out talking about Comolli was a bit odd and now you say you can understand the criticism. Pardon me if Im a little confused.
The thread OP was about whether KD was suffering due to being too nice with the players but, like most things, we really don't know. Don't know how it became about back room staff and who's to blame but, let's face it, everyone has their part to play and it's very seldom one individuals fault. Everyone contributes ( or doesn't) - it's quite easy to hide behind an elephant
Well, yes, but there are degrees of responsibility. I think in football a coach is a pretty key role - and I can recall plenty of threads at the end of last season, after good attractive wins, when Clarke was praised for his contribution, and there were even some who objected to Kenny getting praised so much when, in their view, Clarke was the real tactical brains behind the wins. So I really don't think it's unfair, unjust or inconsistent to apportion some responsibility to Clarke now when things aren't working. People can't have it both ways. Contrary to Modo's bizarre idea that somehow Kenny's been getting off lightly, that's clearly not the case, but I want a full and thorough analysis, not some simplistic exercise in finger-pointing. I can't understand why anyone would object to that.
Yeah I remember you pointing out the gushing praise Clarke was getting earlier in the season as being perhaps a little misguided and / or over the top. With that in mind it's absolutely fair enough to now ask questions of Clarke and his colleagues.
Personally, as said, I didn't know enough back then to speculate as to what Clarke was exactly contributing and I don't know now. I'd like to engage a more educated discussion about what's going wrong behind the scenes but it's a bit of a struggle when you're looking in from the outside.
I wonder who works on our patterns of play in the final third. There needs to be some definite finger pointing in that direction.
Personally, as said, I didn't know enough back then to speculate as to what Clarke was exactly contributing and I don't know now. I'd like to engage a more educated discussion about what's going wrong behind the scenes but it's a bit of a struggle when you're looking in from the outside.
I wonder who works on our patterns of play in the final third. There needs to be some definite finger pointing in that direction.
No point starting a new thread for this article(as this thread is kinda along the same lines)
Dalglish's reign under threat due to misfiring signings
LOUISE TAYLOR
ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE: THE WAIL of anguish was audible. Steven Gerrard’s attempted pass for Luis Suarez had not been well calibrated but the Uruguayan’s petulant reaction appeared disproportionate. As Newcastle United exerted growing control during Sunday’s 2-0 win over Liverpool on Tyneside, so the body language of Kenny Dalglish’s players hinted at inter-camp tensions. A few looked ready to wave white flags.
By the time the final whistle blew on Liverpool’s sixth defeat in seven Premier League games Andy Carroll had stormed down the tunnel, swearing and looking close to tears after being substituted, while Jose Reina reflected on a red card after an idiotic attempted headbutt. As if their worst league run since 1953-54 and eight points from a possible 36 during 2012 was not bad enough, Dalglish’s squad had added indiscipline to their problems.
In a cameo which can be interpreted as emblematic of his waning powers, Dalglish marched on to the pitch in the wake of Reina’s dismissal only for Gerrard to shoo him off it. While it would be exaggeration to say that represented the midfielder’s most incisive contribution, the suspicion Gerrard and Suarez have become disillusioned is inescapable.
If Gerrard perhaps pines for the days when his perfect through balls serviced Fernando Torres, Suarez’s record of three goals in his past 19 League appearances represents a poor return for such a gifted forward. Fortunately for that pair most attention is diverted to Carroll, the €43 million former Newcastle striker with three League goals this season. Should Liverpool’s US owners replace Dalglish during the summer, Carroll’s signing in January 2011 will be identified as the moment decline set in for a club legend.
When the Scot last won the title, at Blackburn Rovers in 1995, he did so with an almost exclusively British squad. Key components included a Geordie striker called Alan Shearer and a former Middlesbrough winger named Stuart Ripley but Dalglish’s attempts to make history repeat itself with a raft of British buys including the Gateshead-born Carroll and the Teesside-bred Stewart Downing threaten to ensure this season ends in tears. The League Cup has been secured and an FA Cup semi-final against Everton looms but €66 million spent on a winger who appears to have forgotten how to cross and a centre-forward whose feet seem to have turned to clay surely haunts the 61-year-old’s nightmares.
John W Henry and his Fenway colleagues must puzzle as to how a man boasting a detailed knowledge of world footballers ever paid Sunderland €24 million for Jordan Henderson. Or imagined that Charlie Adam could become the new Xabi Alonso. Of Dalglish’s principal signings, the best are Craig Bellamy, Suarez and Jose Enrique at a cost of €36 million.
When it comes to media strategy Dalglish has also been found wanting, his ridiculous defence of Suarez in the wake of the Patrice Evra affair merely serving to suggest he is operating in a pubic relations time warp.Going into denial over Suarez and Carroll’s loss of form, Dalglish resembles a child who, having covered his eyes with his fingers, believes no one can see him.
Dalglish's reign under threat due to misfiring signings
LOUISE TAYLOR
ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE: THE WAIL of anguish was audible. Steven Gerrard’s attempted pass for Luis Suarez had not been well calibrated but the Uruguayan’s petulant reaction appeared disproportionate. As Newcastle United exerted growing control during Sunday’s 2-0 win over Liverpool on Tyneside, so the body language of Kenny Dalglish’s players hinted at inter-camp tensions. A few looked ready to wave white flags.
By the time the final whistle blew on Liverpool’s sixth defeat in seven Premier League games Andy Carroll had stormed down the tunnel, swearing and looking close to tears after being substituted, while Jose Reina reflected on a red card after an idiotic attempted headbutt. As if their worst league run since 1953-54 and eight points from a possible 36 during 2012 was not bad enough, Dalglish’s squad had added indiscipline to their problems.
In a cameo which can be interpreted as emblematic of his waning powers, Dalglish marched on to the pitch in the wake of Reina’s dismissal only for Gerrard to shoo him off it. While it would be exaggeration to say that represented the midfielder’s most incisive contribution, the suspicion Gerrard and Suarez have become disillusioned is inescapable.
If Gerrard perhaps pines for the days when his perfect through balls serviced Fernando Torres, Suarez’s record of three goals in his past 19 League appearances represents a poor return for such a gifted forward. Fortunately for that pair most attention is diverted to Carroll, the €43 million former Newcastle striker with three League goals this season. Should Liverpool’s US owners replace Dalglish during the summer, Carroll’s signing in January 2011 will be identified as the moment decline set in for a club legend.
When the Scot last won the title, at Blackburn Rovers in 1995, he did so with an almost exclusively British squad. Key components included a Geordie striker called Alan Shearer and a former Middlesbrough winger named Stuart Ripley but Dalglish’s attempts to make history repeat itself with a raft of British buys including the Gateshead-born Carroll and the Teesside-bred Stewart Downing threaten to ensure this season ends in tears. The League Cup has been secured and an FA Cup semi-final against Everton looms but €66 million spent on a winger who appears to have forgotten how to cross and a centre-forward whose feet seem to have turned to clay surely haunts the 61-year-old’s nightmares.
John W Henry and his Fenway colleagues must puzzle as to how a man boasting a detailed knowledge of world footballers ever paid Sunderland €24 million for Jordan Henderson. Or imagined that Charlie Adam could become the new Xabi Alonso. Of Dalglish’s principal signings, the best are Craig Bellamy, Suarez and Jose Enrique at a cost of €36 million.
When it comes to media strategy Dalglish has also been found wanting, his ridiculous defence of Suarez in the wake of the Patrice Evra affair merely serving to suggest he is operating in a pubic relations time warp.Going into denial over Suarez and Carroll’s loss of form, Dalglish resembles a child who, having covered his eyes with his fingers, believes no one can see him.
The article can get to fuck for that line alone.
KING KENNY DALGLISH FACES AN OFFER HE CAN’T REFUSE
Leaving Kenny Dalglish to ‘Walk Alone’ is not something they ever thought they would have to consider
3rd April 2012
By Brian Woolnough
SO, HOW do you sack Mr Liverpool? The simple answer is – you don’t. You daren’t.
The American owners knew they were employing the red half of Merseyside when they gave Kenny Dalglish the job.
Sack Kenny and you isolate a red army of 100,000. He is their man, their soul and was their saviour when he returned to Anfield on a wave of emotion.
Dalglish quickly reunited the club, the Godfather was back with his family and the early signs were good.
Failure was not on the agenda and when the Carling Cup was lifted at Wembley earlier this year everyone waited for lift-off.
Club owner John Henry danced unashamedly in celebration with Dalglish.
Winning trophies, that’s what Liverpool are about. The first of many, they no doubt thought.
What has happened since has been surprising, sudden and acutely embarrassing for Dalglish and particularly his bosses.
Liverpool’s season has fallen apart and Sunday’s indisciplined, shambolic performance at Newcastle means this is now their worst run for 58 years.
Dalglish will never walk away. He is too proud for that and the supporters would not expect him to abandon them.
They still trust him, although even the most devoted Red must see the club is on the edge of imploding.
What to do with Kenny is a huge dilemma for the Americans.
They are hard-nosed businessmen who only deal with success. The bottom line for them is being the best and making money.
When they bought into Liverpool, they studied the history of this great club and their plan was to return it to the glory years.
This was discussed with Dalglish and together they had a plan. But that plan is now in tatters and it is no wonder they are asking questions.
Why has it gone so horribly wrong? The easy thing to do would be to axe Dalglish – but it is not as simple as that when you are dealing with an idol of so many.
You can see in Dalglish’s expression that he’s hurting. It is a look of someone who doesn’t understand what is going wrong.
On Sunday, he was like a helpless parent whose children are running out of control.
He remains too loyal to his players and while he must take ultimate responsibility, some of his signings have let him and the club down badly.
Andy Carroll is the epitome of that. Swearing and storming off down the tunnel after being subbed and humiliated in front of his old Newcastle fans will be one of the black moments of Liverpool’s season.
It is an image that will haunt Dalglish. The picture of him looking on in surprise as his record signing rushed away in anger.
Carroll has scored just five goals in 36 league appearances, 21 of them starts, and his transfer value is now a fraction of the £35m Liverpool paid.
There are others who are not far behind Carroll in the ‘Hall of Shame’. Did Jordan Henderson really cost £20m?
Stewart Downing has managed only two FA Cup goals and none in the league, Charlie Adam has never stamped his authority on the season, while Craig Bellamy can’t sustain two full games a week.
These players were not the answer – just expensive stop gaps.
The only class act Dalglish has brought in is Luis Suarez and his involvement in the race row with Manchester United’s Patrice Evra has only added to the doom and gloom engulfing Anfield.
The Scot’s handling of that saga was poor, his PR awful and now his management skills are being questioned.
Dalglish has spent close to £115m in trying to secure fourth place and a Champions League spot, but this morning Liverpool are eighth, one point behind neighbours Everton and 16 off fourth-placed Tottenham.
That is not good enough and Liverpool’s mood was summed up by the behaviour on Sunday of keeper Pepe Reina.
His ridiculous headbutt on Newcastle’s James Perch told the story of utter frustration at Liverpool’s failings. Perch did overreact, but that was not the point. Reina lost it, just like his team.
The Spain stopper will now miss the FA Cup semi-final against Everton at Wembley in two weeks and, he too, has let his manager down.
Liverpool just don’t have enough top-class players and it is Dalglish’s responsibility to drill them into a team that, at least, is hard to beat.
Their minimum requirement is an imposing centre-half, a touch of fantasy in midfield and a goalscorer.
Their record in front of goal is awful. Nineteen goals at home in 15 games is pathetic and Liverpool have now lost 11 times this season.
Too much money has been wasted on average players. If Dalglish is honest, he is entitled to ask more from his captain Steven Gerrard.
Yet Liverpool can’t be a one-man team, as they have looked for so long.
So what happens next? The owners have two alternatives – either stick with Dalglish or sack him.
If they axe him, then they run the risk of facing a revolt from the club’s supporters.
If they stick with him, then more money will need to be invested in the summer, a lot more.
Even if Liverpool were to beat Everton in the semi-final and go on to lift a second trophy, it will only paper over the cracks.
John Henry is not a fool and you don’t become a billionaire by being a soft touch. Some tough decisions are needed, but when?
It’s likely that Dalglish will be given one more season, but what happens if Liverpool struggle again?
They would be in danger of disappearing for a long time.
So what do you do with Mr Liverpool. How do you sack him? Dare You?
It is the million dollar question for the Americans.
Leaving Kenny Dalglish to ‘Walk Alone’ is not something they ever thought they would have to consider.
Leaving Kenny Dalglish to ‘Walk Alone’ is not something they ever thought they would have to consider
3rd April 2012
By Brian Woolnough
SO, HOW do you sack Mr Liverpool? The simple answer is – you don’t. You daren’t.
The American owners knew they were employing the red half of Merseyside when they gave Kenny Dalglish the job.
Sack Kenny and you isolate a red army of 100,000. He is their man, their soul and was their saviour when he returned to Anfield on a wave of emotion.
Dalglish quickly reunited the club, the Godfather was back with his family and the early signs were good.
Failure was not on the agenda and when the Carling Cup was lifted at Wembley earlier this year everyone waited for lift-off.
Club owner John Henry danced unashamedly in celebration with Dalglish.
Winning trophies, that’s what Liverpool are about. The first of many, they no doubt thought.
What has happened since has been surprising, sudden and acutely embarrassing for Dalglish and particularly his bosses.
Liverpool’s season has fallen apart and Sunday’s indisciplined, shambolic performance at Newcastle means this is now their worst run for 58 years.
Dalglish will never walk away. He is too proud for that and the supporters would not expect him to abandon them.
They still trust him, although even the most devoted Red must see the club is on the edge of imploding.
What to do with Kenny is a huge dilemma for the Americans.
They are hard-nosed businessmen who only deal with success. The bottom line for them is being the best and making money.
When they bought into Liverpool, they studied the history of this great club and their plan was to return it to the glory years.
This was discussed with Dalglish and together they had a plan. But that plan is now in tatters and it is no wonder they are asking questions.
Why has it gone so horribly wrong? The easy thing to do would be to axe Dalglish – but it is not as simple as that when you are dealing with an idol of so many.
You can see in Dalglish’s expression that he’s hurting. It is a look of someone who doesn’t understand what is going wrong.
On Sunday, he was like a helpless parent whose children are running out of control.
He remains too loyal to his players and while he must take ultimate responsibility, some of his signings have let him and the club down badly.
Andy Carroll is the epitome of that. Swearing and storming off down the tunnel after being subbed and humiliated in front of his old Newcastle fans will be one of the black moments of Liverpool’s season.
It is an image that will haunt Dalglish. The picture of him looking on in surprise as his record signing rushed away in anger.
Carroll has scored just five goals in 36 league appearances, 21 of them starts, and his transfer value is now a fraction of the £35m Liverpool paid.
There are others who are not far behind Carroll in the ‘Hall of Shame’. Did Jordan Henderson really cost £20m?
Stewart Downing has managed only two FA Cup goals and none in the league, Charlie Adam has never stamped his authority on the season, while Craig Bellamy can’t sustain two full games a week.
These players were not the answer – just expensive stop gaps.
The only class act Dalglish has brought in is Luis Suarez and his involvement in the race row with Manchester United’s Patrice Evra has only added to the doom and gloom engulfing Anfield.
The Scot’s handling of that saga was poor, his PR awful and now his management skills are being questioned.
Dalglish has spent close to £115m in trying to secure fourth place and a Champions League spot, but this morning Liverpool are eighth, one point behind neighbours Everton and 16 off fourth-placed Tottenham.
That is not good enough and Liverpool’s mood was summed up by the behaviour on Sunday of keeper Pepe Reina.
His ridiculous headbutt on Newcastle’s James Perch told the story of utter frustration at Liverpool’s failings. Perch did overreact, but that was not the point. Reina lost it, just like his team.
The Spain stopper will now miss the FA Cup semi-final against Everton at Wembley in two weeks and, he too, has let his manager down.
Liverpool just don’t have enough top-class players and it is Dalglish’s responsibility to drill them into a team that, at least, is hard to beat.
Their minimum requirement is an imposing centre-half, a touch of fantasy in midfield and a goalscorer.
Their record in front of goal is awful. Nineteen goals at home in 15 games is pathetic and Liverpool have now lost 11 times this season.
Too much money has been wasted on average players. If Dalglish is honest, he is entitled to ask more from his captain Steven Gerrard.
Yet Liverpool can’t be a one-man team, as they have looked for so long.
So what happens next? The owners have two alternatives – either stick with Dalglish or sack him.
If they axe him, then they run the risk of facing a revolt from the club’s supporters.
If they stick with him, then more money will need to be invested in the summer, a lot more.
Even if Liverpool were to beat Everton in the semi-final and go on to lift a second trophy, it will only paper over the cracks.
John Henry is not a fool and you don’t become a billionaire by being a soft touch. Some tough decisions are needed, but when?
It’s likely that Dalglish will be given one more season, but what happens if Liverpool struggle again?
They would be in danger of disappearing for a long time.
So what do you do with Mr Liverpool. How do you sack him? Dare You?
It is the million dollar question for the Americans.
Leaving Kenny Dalglish to ‘Walk Alone’ is not something they ever thought they would have to consider.
Brian Woolnough is a fuckwit.
Anyway, to the original question from Ross; maybe is the answer. We don't know what he's like with them behind closed doors, so it's hard to say.
For me, his biggest mistake has been thinking that what worked for him 20 years ago in terms of tactics and player purchases would work in the present day. If you even look at what he did with Blackburn, it was incredibly similar to his approach with us. Spending huge on a tall striker (Sutton/Carroll) and getting wingers around him worked then. It won't work now.
Anyway, to the original question from Ross; maybe is the answer. We don't know what he's like with them behind closed doors, so it's hard to say.
For me, his biggest mistake has been thinking that what worked for him 20 years ago in terms of tactics and player purchases would work in the present day. If you even look at what he did with Blackburn, it was incredibly similar to his approach with us. Spending huge on a tall striker (Sutton/Carroll) and getting wingers around him worked then. It won't work now.
I disagree completely here. Tactics, technical innovation, conditioning, preparation, attitudes have all changed significantly.
As someone posted earlier - why not appoint George Graham on that basis.
One of the things Ferguson has done particularly well over the years is ensure his assistants are well versed in current techniques. McClaren was the obvious example. He was hand picked by Ferguson because of his work using new technology.
Dalglish's record since he left Liverpool was patchy, bar Blackburn for a short time.
I'm not saying it's all KD's fault, clearly it isn't.
But Steve Clarke is up to date. He won the league with Chelsea. He was also with Kenny during the second half of last season. Kevin, however, wasn't.... and hasn't won anything....
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I do believe the fact that Dalglish was out of the game for so long is not only relevant, but significant.
I believe his success in the early stages of his return, or new manager bounce, gave him the power over Comolli to have the final say over transfers. I think that's why he targeted solely British players, and I think that's a major reason why we are struggling now.
There was plenty of legitimate reasons to appoint Kenny permanent basis, but there was also some very real concerns which now have more validity .
I believe his success in the early stages of his return, or new manager bounce, gave him the power over Comolli to have the final say over transfers. I think that's why he targeted solely British players, and I think that's a major reason why we are struggling now.
There was plenty of legitimate reasons to appoint Kenny permanent basis, but there was also some very real concerns which now have more validity .
if it were based on just this season you could say kenny doesn't know what the fuck he is doing but at the end of last season we were playing argubl the best football in the league. it' an old cliché but we've attempted to fix what wasn't broken.
Nonsense. Kenny's taking plenty of stick, and those other guys are too senior not to be involved to some degree as well.
say what you want about kenny but we haven't played long ball this season or at any time under since he arrived.
He'd offered to do so right at the start, when we were down in the bottom three not long after he became player-manager. He loves the club enough to walk if he reckons that's what the club needs him to do.
Incidentally, to be absolutely fair to the guy Souness did the same.
Incidentally, to be absolutely fair to the guy Souness did the same.
I heard an interview on RTE yesterday with John Keith. ( Im not sure if he works for radio or newspapers in Liverpool but I hear him regularly reporting on both Liverpool and Everton). Anyway he was saying that the owners are very unhappy bunnies at the moment and that Commolli was called to the USA last week for explanations as to what is going on.
if kenny fells he can turn this around then he wont (nor should he) walk away.
He offered but the interviewer said he didnt have time in his schedule for it.
In another version of that article, she added:
What a load of horseshit - Wenger? 'Savvy' and 'friendly'??? Honestly??
THE HELL?!
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