Is Kenny paying the price ...

[Rosco]

of being too nice to his players ?

He's defended plenty of players to the hilt all year long, starting with Carroll who spent the summer on the piss, Suarez through his ordeal, and at every other juncture that I've seen him about any of our players.

In the past a lot of people put Arsenal's indiscipline down to the fact that Wenger rarely criticises his players, yesterday we saw Reina stupidly get himself sent off and Andy Carroll get stroppy when he was subbed.

Is it time he got a bit tougher and more critical ?

 

[Modo]

I think Kenny is partly paying the price for his illogical choice of players.

 

[Sunny]

John Durnin was on the radio yesterday and was saying that although Kenny defends his players publicly he wont be shy in letting them know where they're going wrong in the dressing room

 

[Gary25]

It's a good point.

We'll obviously never know what goes on behind closed doors and any football manager can say one thing to the media and another to his players. However, we do seem to 'too nice' as a squad, and completely devoid of answers when the going gets tough.
When that's the case, you have to look at the Management.

 

[Rosco]

I think there's a complete lack of leadership on the pitch too. Gkmacca made the point yesterday about Gerrard, and the only other with any leadership qualities is Carragher who doesn't even warrant a place in the side so I can't imagine he's influencing anyone.

 

[Tal]

John Durnin was on the radio yesterday and was saying that although Kenny defends his players publicly he wont be shy in letting them know where they're going wrong in the dressing room

It's on the pitch that's the problem.

 

[Gary25]

I think there's a complete lack of leadership on the pitch too. Gkmacca made the point yesterday about Gerrard, and the only other with any leadership qualities is Carragher who doesn't even warrant a place in the side so I can't imagine he's influencing anyone.

Gerrard doesn't look arsed anymore, and even Carra seems to have given up the fight - and shouting at any and every Liverpool player around him doesn't exactly make him a great leader.

 

[hmmmmm1]

highly doubt he is so soft behind close doors, only question is if they are listening

 

[gkmacca]

Kenny brought in a highly regarded coach in Steve Clarke to organise the team and like everyone else I was very pleased with that decision. But this ought to be a situation that brings out the best in a man everyone from Maureen to Zola raves about, and there's something exasperating about how nothing seems to be happening. More and more bad habits are creeping into our game just when you expect them to be gradually removed.

 

[StevieM]

Reina was an accident waiting to happen... he always goes nuts whenever he feels he's been fouled (or slightly touched) by opposition players.

It's very simple... we have poor players, in poor form, playing with poor tactics.

 

[gene hughes]

One distinct possibility this summer, I suppose, is Clarke and Keen getting the sack from DC and KD.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

John Durnin was on the radio yesterday and was saying that although Kenny defends his players publicly he wont be shy in letting them know where they're going wrong in the dressing room

And thats how it should be.

 

[Squiggles]

I don't think Dalglish is 'too nice' at all.

I do think he's been out the game too long, has signed poorly and has nobody on the pitch to provide the leadership required to get us through this bad patch.

 

[gkmacca]

I don't buy this 'too long out of the game' stuff. Ged and Rafa had some bad summers in terms of buying players - they were mistakes, plain and simple. Anything that goes wrong for Kenny, however, seems to be explained by his having been out of the game. I guess his greater willingness than Rafa to involve the Academy and bring on some young players is down to him having been out of the game too long as well! The argument is never defended, it's just bunged in there like a smoke bomb through the window.

 

[Richey]

I don't buy this 'too long out of the game' stuff. Ged and Rafa had some bad summers in terms of buying players - they were mistakes, plain and simple. Anything that goes wrong for Kenny, however, seems to be explained by his having been out of the game. I guess his greater willingness than Rafa to involve the Academy and bring on some young players is down to him having been out of the game too long as well! The argument is never defended, it's just bunged in there like a smoke bomb through the window.

I agree, and as I said in another thread yesterday, I don't see how being out of managing the in the Premier League for some time is necessarily that different from coming in from another league having had no experience of the Premier League.

In the latter circumstance it is used as a reason why a manager needs time to adapt, but in the former circumstance it seems fair to just say 'well he was good 20 years ago, but clearly he's past it now'.

Kenny was successful before, so those skills can't have disappeared. I get that things have changed over the years, but surely his record in the past means that it could be worth giving him the time to adapt to those changes that he might need. Not because of sentimentality, but because he was a great manager before and I don't want the club to dispense with the services of a great manager because of a lack of patience.

 

[kingjulian]

Rosco has a point there....

But i think he is still the best man to get us completely out of this shit...

I also think Kenny can be ruthless when he wants to...he has managed to wind up people in the media quite a bit, hasn't he.

 

[Oncy]

He's paying the price for a truly horrific summer.
Simple.
We ended the season with a team in form playing great football
Reina
Flanagan
Carragher
Skrtel
Johnson
Lucas
Meireles
Spearing
Kuyt
Maxi
Suarez
Just a balance that was right and interplay between Meireles, Maxi and Suarez that killed teams.

Then we started this season with
Reina
Flanagan
Carragher
Agger
Enrique
Lucas
Adam
Henderson
Downing
Carroll
Suarez
And it doesnt work. It hasnt worked. And all derivations of the same formula with players who arent good enough to challenge for 1st place has failed.
We should NEVER have sold Meireles, we should NEVER have allowed all our creative midfielders to leave, and we should NEVER EVER have sidelined the likes of Kuyt and Maxi who were a massive part of our amazing form for Adam, Henderson etc.
Its been a shameful deconstruction of something that I thought was so close to being right.
And I tell you something for nothing, seeing Maxi on the bench while we fuck up again and again and again in front of goal makes me feel fucking sick.
Im loathe to lay into Kenny as the man has my undying love, but I wish to fuck he wouldnt be such a *expletive deleted*

We should be seeing Gerrard, Maxi, Meireles and Suarez rip teams a new arsehole. We are seeing Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Adam et all bending over with no vaseline.

 

[Modo]

What he said times a million.

 

[dmishra]

Trrific post!

 

[Judge Jules]

Kenny brought in a highly regarded coach in Steve Clarke to organise the team and like everyone else I was very pleased with that decision. But this ought to be a situation that brings out the best in a man everyone from Maureen to Zola raves about, and there's something exasperating about how nothing seems to be happening. More and more bad habits are creeping into our game just when you expect them to be gradually removed.

Clarke's purview is the defence though. I doubt he has much to do with our attacking play (why would you want an ex-fullback coaching that)? Our defence has not been the problem this season - on the contrary, look at Skrtel's improvement to take just one example. What Keen does I don't know, but Clarke is not part of the problem and it will be a terrible piece of myopia if we send him packing.

 

[gkmacca]

Clarke's purview is the defence though. I doubt he has much to do with our attacking play (why would you want an ex-fullback coaching that)? Our defence has not been the problem this season - on the contrary, look at Skrtel's improvement to take just one example. What Keen does I don't know, but Clarke is not part of the problem and it will be a terrible piece of myopia if we send him packing.

God, I wouldn't want to kick him out, but at the moment he's making teflon look sticky. When the attack was looking good he got plenty of plaudits for that. Then he got credit for the defence - and quite right. But now, as coach, he and Keen should be getting flak for the fact that we're shit all over the place, but nothing. I do think he IS part of the problem - because I never just think it's down to one man, whether it's success or failure - but I just want to see that reflected more in the discussions. He seems invisible.

 

[hmmmmm1]

He's paying the price for a truly horrific summer.
Simple.
We ended the season with a team in form playing great football
Reina
Flanagan
Carragher
Skrtel
Johnson
Lucas
Meireles
Spearing
Kuyt
Maxi
Suarez
Just a balance that was right and interplay between Meireles, Maxi and Suarez that killed teams.

Then we started this season with
Reina
Flanagan
Carragher
Agger
Enrique
Lucas
Adam
Henderson
Downing
Carroll
Suarez
And it doesnt work. It hasnt worked. And all derivations of the same formula with players who arent good enough to challenge for 1st place has failed.
We should NEVER have sold Meireles, we should NEVER have allowed all our creative midfielders to leave, and we should NEVER EVER have sidelined the likes of Kuyt and Maxi who were a massive part of our amazing form for Adam, Henderson etc.
Its been a shameful deconstruction of something that I thought was so close to being right.
And I tell you something for nothing, seeing Maxi on the bench while we fuck up again and again and again in front of goal makes me feel fucking sick.
Im loathe to lay into Kenny as the man has my undying love, but I wish to fuck he wouldnt be such a *expletive deleted*

We should be seeing Gerrard, Maxi, Meireles and Suarez rip teams a new arsehole. We are seeing Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Adam et all bending over with no vaseline.

x 1000

 

[Judge Jules]

God, I wouldn't want to kick him out, but at the moment he's making teflon look sticky. When the attack was looking good he got plenty of plaudits for that. Then he got credit for the defence - and quite right. But now, as coach, he and Keen should be getting flak for the fact that we're shit all over the place, but nothing. I do think he IS part of the problem - because I never just think it's down to one man, whether it's success or failure - but I just want to see that reflected more in the discussions. He seems invisible.

While it's certainly true that such things are never down to just one individual, I still wonder to what extent Clarke is really involved in our attacking woes, substantially because (though I may have missed it) I don't recall him getting that much of the kudos for our good attacking play. Maybe the reason why he's not getting it in the neck now is that our current problems are predominantly of an attacking nature and the defence mostly hasn't suffered in the same way.

 

[Shadey]

Trrific post!

^

 

[Modo]

Not to be a cunt, but seeing Clarke and Keen being mentioned just seems to me as a desperate way of trying to find anyone to blame except the one in charge. Some are even mentioning Comolli.
There's an elephant in the room and we're focusing on the odd wallpaper.

 

[spider-Neil]

can't argue with oncy post, it is pretty spot on. what I will say is gerrard would have had to figure into that group so who loses out?

 

[gkmacca]

Not to be a cunt, but seeing Clarke and Keen being mentioned just seems to me as a desperate way of trying to find anyone to blame except the one in charge. Some are even mentioning Comolli.
There's an elephant in the room and we're focusing on the odd wallpaper.

Dear oh dear! Your post is more like a desperate attempt to keep the sole target for criticism the manager. Only you could cast these discussions as Kenny being ignored when criticism is being dolled out! Quite extraordinary!

 

[Sunny]

Not to be a cunt, but seeing Clarke and Keen being mentioned just seems to me as a desperate way of trying to find anyone to blame except the one in charge. Some are even mentioning Comolli.
There's an elephant in the room and we're focusing on the odd wallpaper.

Yeh I mentioned Comolli as the man who's supposed to have this vast knowledge of European leagues and be finding us these bargains. What's your point ? In fact I'm unsure about what most of this thread has to do with the OP

 

[gkmacca]

'The elephant in the room' - truly gobsmacking!

 

[Modo]

Yeh I mentioned Comolli as the man who's supposed to have this vast knowledge of European leagues and be finding us these bargains. What's your point ? In fact I'm unsure about what most of this thread has to do with the OP

My point is pretty much that Kenny hired the backroom staff. Comolli criticism I understand to an extent, but I don't think it's relevant to discuss Kenny's staff.