I would be interested to know
- Thread starter krissr
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Er, what?
Oh.OK.
He's nowhere near the quality of man-manager as, say, the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger, (or possibly even O'Neill), but that's only from a psychological perspective
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39361.msg1071520#msg1071520 date=1268857549]
Babel, Benayoun, Johnson...
[/quote]
Johnson, has played right back all of his career so he plays him right back
Benayoun has probabaly played some of his best stuff since moving to us
and Babel well where do we start with him, if he can't be bothered putting the effort and commitment in, he's not gonna exactly do well is he ?
Babel, Benayoun, Johnson...
[/quote]
Johnson, has played right back all of his career so he plays him right back
Benayoun has probabaly played some of his best stuff since moving to us
and Babel well where do we start with him, if he can't be bothered putting the effort and commitment in, he's not gonna exactly do well is he ?
This is all speculative and dependant on your own definition of "getting the best out of".
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39361.msg1071523#msg1071523 date=1268857833]
This is all speculative and dependant on your own definition of "getting the best out of".
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
[/quote]
I agree, apart from the Torres bit, if he played more he would score 30 a season, and if we had better players he would get closer to 50
This is all speculative and dependant on your own definition of "getting the best out of".
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
[/quote]
I agree, apart from the Torres bit, if he played more he would score 30 a season, and if we had better players he would get closer to 50
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39361.msg1071523#msg1071523 date=1268857833]
This is all speculative and dependant on your own definition of "getting the best out of".
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
[/quote]
If Rooney was playing for Liverpool there is a good chance that Fernando would be banging in 30-50 goals a season.
No. Change that!
If Fernando stayed fit for the whole season he would be banging in 30-50 goals every season.
This is all speculative and dependant on your own definition of "getting the best out of".
You could argue he's got the best out of Gerrard.. and Torres.. but how would Fergie have done? or Wenger? Worse? Better?
Whilst Rafa has clearly done a good job with Nando, personally I think if Torres played for United he'd be banging in 30-50goals a season, but we don't create nearly as many chances for him, so is that getting the best out of him?
As I said, is all down to personal definition.
[/quote]
If Rooney was playing for Liverpool there is a good chance that Fernando would be banging in 30-50 goals a season.
No. Change that!
If Fernando stayed fit for the whole season he would be banging in 30-50 goals every season.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071529#msg1071529 date=1268858477]
The fact we're lying so low in the table should make it quite evident he's not getting the best out of a number of players
[/quote]
Do you think it's down to that ? or just not enough quality players ?
The fact we're lying so low in the table should make it quite evident he's not getting the best out of a number of players
[/quote]
Do you think it's down to that ? or just not enough quality players ?
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071531#msg1071531 date=1268858621]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071529#msg1071529 date=1268858477]
The fact we're lying so low in the table should make it quite evident he's not getting the best out of a number of players
[/quote]
Do you think it's down to that ? or just not enough quality players ?
[/quote]
if its the former then its rafa's fault and if its the latter its rafa's fault
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071529#msg1071529 date=1268858477]
The fact we're lying so low in the table should make it quite evident he's not getting the best out of a number of players
[/quote]
Do you think it's down to that ? or just not enough quality players ?
[/quote]
if its the former then its rafa's fault and if its the latter its rafa's fault
Benayoun would patently be better suited to playing anywhere but on the left.
Kuyt (unless in a rich vein of form) offers little threat against teams parking the bus when played on the right.
Carra is unsurprisingly a better centre-back than right-back.
Babel has not been able to develop when not in the squad (more contentious)
Aquilani proved the other night that his lack of appearances since fit has been somewhat misguided on Rafa's part.
Rafa has treated (for whatever reason) Riera with startling inconsistency.
Bellamy continues to prove himself a top premiership player and has thrived since leaving us.
etc etc...and I'm a Rafa fan (in comparison to most on here).
Kuyt (unless in a rich vein of form) offers little threat against teams parking the bus when played on the right.
Carra is unsurprisingly a better centre-back than right-back.
Babel has not been able to develop when not in the squad (more contentious)
Aquilani proved the other night that his lack of appearances since fit has been somewhat misguided on Rafa's part.
Rafa has treated (for whatever reason) Riera with startling inconsistency.
Bellamy continues to prove himself a top premiership player and has thrived since leaving us.
etc etc...and I'm a Rafa fan (in comparison to most on here).
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071532#msg1071532 date=1268858702]
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071537#msg1071537 date=1268858940]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071532#msg1071532 date=1268858702]
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
[/quote]
Well they weren't motivated were they ? Play for the manager, play for the club - the fact remains we've been fucking crap all year. It's the managers job to make sure they ARE motivated. And he's failed to do that. It's as simple as that.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071532#msg1071532 date=1268858702]
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
[/quote]
Well they weren't motivated were they ? Play for the manager, play for the club - the fact remains we've been fucking crap all year. It's the managers job to make sure they ARE motivated. And he's failed to do that. It's as simple as that.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071538#msg1071538 date=1268859039]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071537#msg1071537 date=1268858940]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071532#msg1071532 date=1268858702]
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
[/quote]
Well they weren't motivated were they ? Play for the manager, play for the club - the fact remains we've been fucking crap all year. It's the managers job to make sure they ARE motivated. And he's failed to do that. It's as simple as that.
[/quote]
So did he motivate them last season when we played so well and went so close ?
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071537#msg1071537 date=1268858940]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071532#msg1071532 date=1268858702]
I think it's both Kriss. But the performances put in by some of our players this season, and some DO possess talent, makes me believe he cannot motivate them.
[/quote]
And that's the thing i don't agree when people say he cant motivate them, the players play for the club not the manager, and the start of this season should of seen the players motivated more than ever, simply because we our best hope in years of winning the legaue, that should should of been a huge motivation
[/quote]
Well they weren't motivated were they ? Play for the manager, play for the club - the fact remains we've been fucking crap all year. It's the managers job to make sure they ARE motivated. And he's failed to do that. It's as simple as that.
[/quote]
So did he motivate them last season when we played so well and went so close ?
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39361.msg1071521#msg1071521 date=1268857721]
He's nowhere near the quality of man-manager as, say, the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger, (or possibly even O'Neill), but that's only from a psychological perspective
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
[/quote]
Mourinho has an almost Messiah like hold over his players, you get the impression they would literally walk over broken glass for him. They like him, fear him, & respect him, which is astounding in today's game with 'player power'.
He's nowhere near the quality of man-manager as, say, the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger, (or possibly even O'Neill), but that's only from a psychological perspective
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
[/quote]
Mourinho has an almost Messiah like hold over his players, you get the impression they would literally walk over broken glass for him. They like him, fear him, & respect him, which is astounding in today's game with 'player power'.
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe they've become stale, bored of his approach. Maybe it has been the injuries. Maybe it was replacing Alonso with a player who wasn't fit. Maybe it wasn't having a suitable striker as back-up for the regularly injured Torres. Maybe it was thinking a Macherano/Alonso midfield was creative/capable enough. Maybe he overachieved last season. All what, ifs and maybes but ultimately, the manager is responsible.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe they've become stale, bored of his approach. Maybe it has been the injuries. Maybe it was replacing Alonso with a player who wasn't fit. Maybe it wasn't having a suitable striker as back-up for the regularly injured Torres. Maybe it was thinking a Macherano/Alonso midfield was creative/capable enough. Maybe he overachieved last season. All what, ifs and maybes but ultimately, the manager is responsible.
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=39361.msg1071546#msg1071546 date=1268859628]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[/quote]
I thought we were fantastic after that, not the Stoke game but we scored loads of goals and played some fantastic stuff
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[/quote]
I thought we were fantastic after that, not the Stoke game but we scored loads of goals and played some fantastic stuff
Kuyt, (As a striker)
Yossi
Reira
Babel
Aquaman
for starters.
Yossi
Reira
Babel
Aquaman
for starters.
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=39361.msg1071546#msg1071546 date=1268859628]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[/quote]
One or two of them were quoted in the press at the time as being fully behind what Rafa said.
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39361.msg1071542#msg1071542 date=1268859295]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39361.msg1071541#msg1071541 date=1268859197]
Apparently so, yes.
[/quote]
Which wouldn't you agree mate, seems strange that he motivated them last season but no this ?
[/quote]
Maybe the FACTS press conference had the squad looking at him in a different light, our form dipped after that.
[/quote]
One or two of them were quoted in the press at the time as being fully behind what Rafa said.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=39361.msg1071545#msg1071545 date=1268859598]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39361.msg1071521#msg1071521 date=1268857721]
He's nowhere near the quality of man-manager as, say, the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger, (or possibly even O'Neill), but that's only from a psychological perspective
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
[/quote]
Mourinho has an almost Messiah like hold over his players, you get the impression they would literally walk over broken glass for him. They like him, fear him, & respect him, which is astounding in today's game with 'player power'.
[/quote]
Plenty of players (good and bad) that he's had fucking hate him.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39361.msg1071521#msg1071521 date=1268857721]
He's nowhere near the quality of man-manager as, say, the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger, (or possibly even O'Neill), but that's only from a psychological perspective
Ferguson and Mourinho, in particular, are genii at developing a winning, us against everyone mentality that helps teams grind out wins and refuse to accept defeat or even a draw, and can also take on setbacks and use them to their advantage
Hence lots of title wins
[/quote]
Mourinho has an almost Messiah like hold over his players, you get the impression they would literally walk over broken glass for him. They like him, fear him, & respect him, which is astounding in today's game with 'player power'.
[/quote]
Plenty of players (good and bad) that he's had fucking hate him.
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