His reputation preceedes him!?
- Thread starter Oncy
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
The demotion of Foy is interesting, as is the non demotion of Jones and Webb
It definitely needs context, & the rafa & avb things are a bit foil hat worthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it stands up to more research.
is the correct answer me thinks.
Not reffing a game for a particular club for a year may well be normal we dont know, that said it is curious about the demotions, almost as curious as the relative lack of stink for the shitty decisions weve had two weeks running.
Do the demotions happen often? I mean it could be quite standard to mix up where they are, and could be more down to their proximity to the grounds.
I was checking to see how many premier league referees there are. Is it 17? Seems a low figure.
Incidentally, until today, I never realised the Howard Webb is/was a sergeant in the South Yorkshire Police.
Incidentally, until today, I never realised the Howard Webb is/was a sergeant in the South Yorkshire Police.
Well I can't say I remember that, sorry. Do you have an example ?
Has anyone brought up the thing mentioned on the anfield wrap, that Halsey was 2 seats away from ferguson at the same table for a charity dinner days before we played united?
I know a lot of figures within the game will mix in the same circles but what are the odds ferguson brought up certain things around him, never mind how it looks to everyone. If it were another sport I think that would perhaps be unacceptable.
I know a lot of figures within the game will mix in the same circles but what are the odds ferguson brought up certain things around him, never mind how it looks to everyone. If it were another sport I think that would perhaps be unacceptable.
How football really works...
Fergie wines & dines Halsey at his charity bash. Then jokes to the media that utd don't get penalties at Anfield - except it isn't a joke.... Halsey reads comments in the media and no doubt looks at the goody bag he received at the charity bash and remembers how nice it was to be sitting just two seats away from the utd manager....
The one against Sunderland 2 weeks ago was beyond embarassing.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was awfully exaggerated, but still a foul.
It was a dive.
I think youre missing the point im trying to make mate. If you go back to my first post, im talking about the press. The acceptance that referees are likely to be swayed by history of a player IN THE PRESS.
Of course refs make mistakes thats natural, but for the press to suggest they arent making mistakes but are less likely to give a foul to a known diver is ludicrous.
Hence a foul is a foul. I dont think the refs are corrupt or not calling decisions on Suarez because of history, im just not that much of a nutbar.
I think the press suggesting it are really really dangrous though.
Fair enough mate, makes more sense.
I was just getting frustrated with this "a foul's a foul" business. Sure it is, after you've seen the cunting thing 20 times, and had to slowed down by Sky's super slow mo ro lo video thingy.
But how many times do you see an incident like that only to change your mind after you've seen the replay? Things aren't always black n white, so if they're like that for us they're going to be like that for refs too.
And in situations where it's not clear, the fact that someone has a history of diving comes into.
Anyway, we've done this to death.
I was just getting frustrated with this "a foul's a foul" business. Sure it is, after you've seen the cunting thing 20 times, and had to slowed down by Sky's super slow mo ro lo video thingy.
But how many times do you see an incident like that only to change your mind after you've seen the replay? Things aren't always black n white, so if they're like that for us they're going to be like that for refs too.
And in situations where it's not clear, the fact that someone has a history of diving comes into.
Anyway, we've done this to death.
But a foul is a foul. Ok sometimes, understandably , they wont see it. But Stevie fucking Wonder would have given a penalty on Saturday!
Maybe, but I have some sympathy with the ref as he's behind the defender so he may see the defenders arm (you'd assume he's concentrating on the feet expecting a rash challenge at worst though) but even so he couldn't see contact
That's where preconceptions of strikers & diving comes into play.
However, if we have had Stevie or Allen in the ref's ear all game & he says 'he's just chopped him down ref' & the ref did see movement of the defender's arm, then we may well get it.
That's what utd do, that's one big reason they get more than we do.
Not sure whether this has been posted here. I know it is G Neville but he made sense.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNx5ok60U6A
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNx5ok60U6A
Yes I do have some sympathy there. In fact the move came from a hoof by Pepe which resulted in the ref being well behind the play. I still think it was such an obvious foul that the ref or his "assistant" should have spotted it
I thought the karate blow to the shoulder/neck area was a bit of a giveaway myself!
Tony Evans
The conspiracy theorists are out in force this week. Chris Foy, after refusing to give Manchester United a penalty at Old Trafford last weekend, finds himself in npower League Two for the Accrington Stanley v Rochdale match.
That'll teach him for crossing Alex Ferguson. Except...
The reality is different. The evil empire of the Govan gang boss has not struck again. As much as we'd all love to imagine Ferguson as leader of the lizard people, manipulating world events from a cave below Carrington, it's just not right.
The selection of referees is decided six weeks in advance and takes in many factors. It's affected by international matches, Uefa's competitions, domestic cups. Sometimes it needs to be shuffled about at the last minute because of injuries. Foy was given this game back in August.
Ah, but the statistics scream out that this is a lie, you say. Well let's look at some stats.
Every referee does between five and ten Football League matches in a season. Only the three elite officials - Howard Webb, Mark Clattenburg and Martin Atkinson - do fewer. Last season, Foy did seven lower-level games, including two League One matches.
So far this season, nine of the 16 Select Group of officials have taken charge of a Football League contest. League Two gets to see less of the Select Group than the divisions above, but last season it was graced by members of the Select Group 12 times. Kevin Friend, Mark Halsey, Mike Jones, Neil Swarbrick and Jon Moss went straight from a top-flight game to a fourth-tier match in the space of a week.
Ah, you say, what about Clattenburg? In charge of the 6-1 defeat by Manchester City and never seen again. At least not at a United game. At least not for 36 league matches.
The problem with this is that Clattenburg has not taken charge of Liverpool for 40 league games. Or Arsenal for 36. Or does the malign reach of Ferguson go farther than we all imagined?
Before we all tie ourselves in knots, let's state a few simple truths:
But why don't opposition teams get penalties at Old Trafford? For the same reason they don't score that many against United. They don't get into the home side's penalty area that often. It's the same reason why few teams win there.
The most interesting point, though, is United's political power. They are masters of back-room machinations. At one disciplinary session, the other club involved received polite but cursory greetings from the FA bigwigs involved. Enter Ferguson and the mood changed. The treatment the United delegation received was different. It was like a reunion of old friends and after the backslapping there was a scramble to make sure Ferguson was comfortable, that he had a hot drink and everything he needed. "I knew we'd lose then," a representative of the other club said. And they did.
But again, there's no conspiracy. Ferguson has status and respect for two reasons: longevity and success. United's success in the boardrooms is built on more than the manager, though.
When United play away games, David Gill, Sir Bobby Charlton and other high-ranking officials often attend. They glad-hand, they schmooze, they are humble in victory and generous in defeat. They make friends. It's networking at its best. United know how to negotiate the corridors of power, from the most ramshackle ground in the league to the G14 table.
Doesn't everyone do that?
No. Carlo Ancelotti was shocked to find that at some Chelsea away games he was the most senior club official in the stadium. A former manager of another club who were once on the wrong end of a set-to with United complained that his sole boardroom representative at away games was unable work the room like United's charm squad.
For all the spit-flying, hairdrying image that Ferguson likes to project, United know how to win friends and influence people. And they do.
So yes, United probably have more pull with the FA, Premier League, Uefa, Fifa, the Pope and God than your club. But they're not in the business of getting Foy, or any other referee blacklisted.
No conspiracy this time, sadly, just a quirk of the refereeing calender. But make no mistake. Powerful clubs flex their muscles whenever they can. And they don't come more powerful than United.
Enough about football. Let's talk about beer. I'm going to end my blogs from now on with my beer of the moment. This week, go to any lengths to find Dark Star's Green Hopped IPA. All Dark Star's beer's are worth finding and drinking but this is something special. It's 6.5% and has a hop attack that'll disable the mouth of a cooking-lager drinker. It's mostly found in the south of England so if you're at an away game down there, hunt it out. It's seasonal so do it quick. You'll enjoy it.
The conspiracy theorists are out in force this week. Chris Foy, after refusing to give Manchester United a penalty at Old Trafford last weekend, finds himself in npower League Two for the Accrington Stanley v Rochdale match.
That'll teach him for crossing Alex Ferguson. Except...
The reality is different. The evil empire of the Govan gang boss has not struck again. As much as we'd all love to imagine Ferguson as leader of the lizard people, manipulating world events from a cave below Carrington, it's just not right.
The selection of referees is decided six weeks in advance and takes in many factors. It's affected by international matches, Uefa's competitions, domestic cups. Sometimes it needs to be shuffled about at the last minute because of injuries. Foy was given this game back in August.
Ah, but the statistics scream out that this is a lie, you say. Well let's look at some stats.
Every referee does between five and ten Football League matches in a season. Only the three elite officials - Howard Webb, Mark Clattenburg and Martin Atkinson - do fewer. Last season, Foy did seven lower-level games, including two League One matches.
So far this season, nine of the 16 Select Group of officials have taken charge of a Football League contest. League Two gets to see less of the Select Group than the divisions above, but last season it was graced by members of the Select Group 12 times. Kevin Friend, Mark Halsey, Mike Jones, Neil Swarbrick and Jon Moss went straight from a top-flight game to a fourth-tier match in the space of a week.
Ah, you say, what about Clattenburg? In charge of the 6-1 defeat by Manchester City and never seen again. At least not at a United game. At least not for 36 league matches.
The problem with this is that Clattenburg has not taken charge of Liverpool for 40 league games. Or Arsenal for 36. Or does the malign reach of Ferguson go farther than we all imagined?
Before we all tie ourselves in knots, let's state a few simple truths:
- United do benefit from refereeing decisions more than most
- It is difficult to get a penalty at Old Trafford if you're not wearing a red shirt
- United do have more power than most clubs in football
But why don't opposition teams get penalties at Old Trafford? For the same reason they don't score that many against United. They don't get into the home side's penalty area that often. It's the same reason why few teams win there.
The most interesting point, though, is United's political power. They are masters of back-room machinations. At one disciplinary session, the other club involved received polite but cursory greetings from the FA bigwigs involved. Enter Ferguson and the mood changed. The treatment the United delegation received was different. It was like a reunion of old friends and after the backslapping there was a scramble to make sure Ferguson was comfortable, that he had a hot drink and everything he needed. "I knew we'd lose then," a representative of the other club said. And they did.
But again, there's no conspiracy. Ferguson has status and respect for two reasons: longevity and success. United's success in the boardrooms is built on more than the manager, though.
When United play away games, David Gill, Sir Bobby Charlton and other high-ranking officials often attend. They glad-hand, they schmooze, they are humble in victory and generous in defeat. They make friends. It's networking at its best. United know how to negotiate the corridors of power, from the most ramshackle ground in the league to the G14 table.
Doesn't everyone do that?
No. Carlo Ancelotti was shocked to find that at some Chelsea away games he was the most senior club official in the stadium. A former manager of another club who were once on the wrong end of a set-to with United complained that his sole boardroom representative at away games was unable work the room like United's charm squad.
For all the spit-flying, hairdrying image that Ferguson likes to project, United know how to win friends and influence people. And they do.
So yes, United probably have more pull with the FA, Premier League, Uefa, Fifa, the Pope and God than your club. But they're not in the business of getting Foy, or any other referee blacklisted.
No conspiracy this time, sadly, just a quirk of the refereeing calender. But make no mistake. Powerful clubs flex their muscles whenever they can. And they don't come more powerful than United.
Enough about football. Let's talk about beer. I'm going to end my blogs from now on with my beer of the moment. This week, go to any lengths to find Dark Star's Green Hopped IPA. All Dark Star's beer's are worth finding and drinking but this is something special. It's 6.5% and has a hop attack that'll disable the mouth of a cooking-lager drinker. It's mostly found in the south of England so if you're at an away game down there, hunt it out. It's seasonal so do it quick. You'll enjoy it.
Maybe ? There's not one person who I've met who didn't think it was a pen without benefit of replays. Every commentatir there is screamed pen instantly. Helen Keller could have give that pen. If the refs out position, the linesman should have seen it. If its not piss poor refereeing then its refereeing based on reputation which is unprofessional. Thank God our footballing disciplinary bodies aren't like that.
- Status
Similar threads
-
- Locked
