It's all a bit quiet on Dukinfield. He must be prosecuted.
Hillsborough: Searching For The Truth
- Thread starter Rael
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Was I with you for that one? Was that not at the England game that was abandoned? I remember when we were leaving the terrace, the crowd started moving back toward us. It got fairly packed, but it dispersed almost as quick.
Or maybe you're on about something else.
South Yorkshire Police is reopening investigations into its conduct over the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
It follows a report that found officers changed statements and tried to blame Liverpool fans for the disaster.
The force has confirmed it is considering referring itself for investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
Ninety-six Liverpool fans died as a result of overcrowding at the start of the FA Cup semi-final on 15 April 1989.
Police bosses, including South Yorkshire's current chief constable, said charges should be brought if laws were broken.
In a statement the force said: "South Yorkshire Police is currently reviewing a wide variety of matters raised in the report of the Hillsborough Independent Panel with a view to making a referral to the Independent Police Complaints Commission."
Should such a referral be made, it is common practice that the IPCC be informed of which specific officers should be investigated.
Richard Wells, who led South Yorkshire Police from 1990 to 1998, said charges were "absolutely essential", and the force's current chief constable David Crompton said if statements have been falsified against the law, prosecutions should be brought.
A Home Office spokesman added: "It's important that any allegations of criminal misconduct are investigated swiftly and thoroughly and anyone who is found to have broken the law is brought to justice."
It follows a report that found officers changed statements and tried to blame Liverpool fans for the disaster.
The force has confirmed it is considering referring itself for investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
Ninety-six Liverpool fans died as a result of overcrowding at the start of the FA Cup semi-final on 15 April 1989.
Police bosses, including South Yorkshire's current chief constable, said charges should be brought if laws were broken.
In a statement the force said: "South Yorkshire Police is currently reviewing a wide variety of matters raised in the report of the Hillsborough Independent Panel with a view to making a referral to the Independent Police Complaints Commission."
Should such a referral be made, it is common practice that the IPCC be informed of which specific officers should be investigated.
Richard Wells, who led South Yorkshire Police from 1990 to 1998, said charges were "absolutely essential", and the force's current chief constable David Crompton said if statements have been falsified against the law, prosecutions should be brought.
A Home Office spokesman added: "It's important that any allegations of criminal misconduct are investigated swiftly and thoroughly and anyone who is found to have broken the law is brought to justice."
SYP to reopen investigation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19592455
I didn't hear that, macca but it wouldn't surprise me.
In fairness, there was a lady on just now (Leicester City fan) who has spoken very passionately and eloquently in support of victims/ families/club and city of Liverpool.
She was particularly scathing with regard to the Shit Rag.
Unfortunately, there will always be those that stick to their prejudices and lies.
In fairness, there was a lady on just now (Leicester City fan) who has spoken very passionately and eloquently in support of victims/ families/club and city of Liverpool.
She was particularly scathing with regard to the Shit Rag.
Unfortunately, there will always be those that stick to their prejudices and lies.
They even said that it was a classic smear.
I often have it on on the long drive home Macca and moreoften than not its typical shite, but yesterday Adrian Durham was excellent. His show was very passionate and i enjoyed it.
This is quite a stupid question, but it comes after a great deal of reading on the subject;
Now, I understand what caused the disaster but what I fail to understand is why there were all those extra supporters at the stadium, it's obvious that there were more people than ticket holders there, why is that? or is it a case of ticket allocations exceeding actual seats?
Again sorry for the ignorance.
Now, I understand what caused the disaster but what I fail to understand is why there were all those extra supporters at the stadium, it's obvious that there were more people than ticket holders there, why is that? or is it a case of ticket allocations exceeding actual seats?
Again sorry for the ignorance.
Been unable to post in here, Gene summed up how I feel as an outsider.
My wife met a woman while doing her Phd who she became good friends with, last year she got a research job working for Phil Scraton in Queens University Belfast as part of the panel. She was mostly doing work on the documents and had joined after the research team had spent months looking over and over at the CCTV footage. A lot of that team were pretty shaken by what they saw.
Anyway, she couldn't talk about any of this until yesterday, my wife happened to be visiting her during the press conference so they watched. Her concern was if the families would feel that they had not found enough and was very relieved with the positive reaction from the families.
Truth. Now justice.
YNWA
My wife met a woman while doing her Phd who she became good friends with, last year she got a research job working for Phil Scraton in Queens University Belfast as part of the panel. She was mostly doing work on the documents and had joined after the research team had spent months looking over and over at the CCTV footage. A lot of that team were pretty shaken by what they saw.
Anyway, she couldn't talk about any of this until yesterday, my wife happened to be visiting her during the press conference so they watched. Her concern was if the families would feel that they had not found enough and was very relieved with the positive reaction from the families.
Truth. Now justice.
YNWA
I was thinking about that exact same thing, Andy.
I think this thread is a great post-script to that thread tho, and whilst it is upsetting, it is also something we can all be proud of.
Today the truth, tomorrow the justice.
No it was a different game.
Wasnt it a case of putting fans into pens that were already full, whilst at the same time there were empty pens on either side?
FWIW here is a short article I have written for my workplace newsletter (here in Ireland). It says no mroe than what has already been said, but thought I'd share. What we can do is use this opportunity to contineu to educate those people who really dont undertsand the extent of this cover up & how it has impacted, especially those overseas :
Exaclty - I & 3 mates were herded into the central pen with everyone else. We climbed the fence into the side pen to the left about 20 mins before kick off. While standing there I could have held both my arms out horizontally & spun around without touching another supporter. That is the sad reality ... if peopel had been directed to the side pens there was enough space there for everyone and the whole thing coudl & woudl have been avoided
Mayor calls for action over Hillsborough
Mayor of Liverpool Joe Anderson is calling for action against key figures involved in the Hillsborough cover up.
He has written to Sir Bob Kerslake, Chair of the Honours Forfeiture Committee, calling for Sir Irvine Patnick to be stripped of his Knighthood.
It comes after the Hillsborough Independent Panel revealed that the former MP for Sheffield Hallam took the lead in actively briefing the media with lies about the role and responsibility of Liverpool FC fans at Hillsborough.
In his letter, the Mayor condemns him for a “vile and appalling smear campaign” which has led to fans being “vilified and stigmatised” to deflect criticism from South Yorkshire Police and other authorities.
He requests that the Committee gives “urgent consideration to the actions of the former MP which have brought the honours system into disrepute and on the basis of the overwhelming misery that this man has brought to the people of Liverpool.”
Mayor Anderson has also written to Prime Minister David Cameron, welcoming his apology on behalf of the Government and asking for his backing.
An e-petition has been set up on the city council website for people to support the call. it can be found here
Mayor Anderson has also written to Professor Nigel Weatherill, Chief Executive and Vice-Chancellor of Liverpool John Moores University, calling for West Yorkshire Police Chief Constable Norman Bettison to be stripped of his Honorary Fellowship.
Mr Bettison was previously a Chief Inspector and then Superintendent at South Yorkshire Police at the time of the disaster. The Independent Panel report highlights Mr Bettison’s production of a video tape which sought to present Liverpool FC fans as being to blame.
Mayor Anderson condemns Mr Bettison for failing to show any remorse for his actions and says he “does not think he is a person worthy of any public honour or recognition, and especially not from the institutions of the city of Liverpool”.
Mayor Anderson has also written to the editor of The Lying Rag, Dominic Mohan, thanking the paper for its apology but warning that, given it has taken 23 years for the paper to apologise, he will be recommending people reconsider the position in 23 years’ time and cautioning that “I would not expect sales of your newspaper to rise in and around Liverpool”. In contrast, he has written to Liverpool Echo Editor Alastair Machray and Liverpool Post Editor Mark Thomas congratulating them on their Hillsborough coverage for being ”both sensitive and supportive to the families at a difficult time”, and their “sustained campaign of support for the Hillsborough families fight for justice.”
http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/mgePetitionListDisplay.aspx?bcr=1
Mayor of Liverpool Joe Anderson is calling for action against key figures involved in the Hillsborough cover up.
He has written to Sir Bob Kerslake, Chair of the Honours Forfeiture Committee, calling for Sir Irvine Patnick to be stripped of his Knighthood.
It comes after the Hillsborough Independent Panel revealed that the former MP for Sheffield Hallam took the lead in actively briefing the media with lies about the role and responsibility of Liverpool FC fans at Hillsborough.
In his letter, the Mayor condemns him for a “vile and appalling smear campaign” which has led to fans being “vilified and stigmatised” to deflect criticism from South Yorkshire Police and other authorities.
He requests that the Committee gives “urgent consideration to the actions of the former MP which have brought the honours system into disrepute and on the basis of the overwhelming misery that this man has brought to the people of Liverpool.”
Mayor Anderson has also written to Prime Minister David Cameron, welcoming his apology on behalf of the Government and asking for his backing.
An e-petition has been set up on the city council website for people to support the call. it can be found here
Mayor Anderson has also written to Professor Nigel Weatherill, Chief Executive and Vice-Chancellor of Liverpool John Moores University, calling for West Yorkshire Police Chief Constable Norman Bettison to be stripped of his Honorary Fellowship.
Mr Bettison was previously a Chief Inspector and then Superintendent at South Yorkshire Police at the time of the disaster. The Independent Panel report highlights Mr Bettison’s production of a video tape which sought to present Liverpool FC fans as being to blame.
Mayor Anderson condemns Mr Bettison for failing to show any remorse for his actions and says he “does not think he is a person worthy of any public honour or recognition, and especially not from the institutions of the city of Liverpool”.
Mayor Anderson has also written to the editor of The Lying Rag, Dominic Mohan, thanking the paper for its apology but warning that, given it has taken 23 years for the paper to apologise, he will be recommending people reconsider the position in 23 years’ time and cautioning that “I would not expect sales of your newspaper to rise in and around Liverpool”. In contrast, he has written to Liverpool Echo Editor Alastair Machray and Liverpool Post Editor Mark Thomas congratulating them on their Hillsborough coverage for being ”both sensitive and supportive to the families at a difficult time”, and their “sustained campaign of support for the Hillsborough families fight for justice.”
http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/mgePetitionListDisplay.aspx?bcr=1
I haven't posted in here until now about it because I was never really sure how much of a position I was in to comment. Having been born after it happened and not really understanding it until at least some 10 years after it was more difficult in a way to feel as angry as you all do on here because I wasn't alive when any of this happened but what I can feel and have always felt is a massive sense of pride from all the families of the dead, all Liverpool fans both in Liverpool and around the world and in everyone who has showed solidarity and helped us get closer to justice.
One of the most important things to me about this panel report coming out after the obvious, is what can be shown to the generations born after Hillsborough and to help those who were and still are unaware of what actually happened be educated. This fight for justice will take a lot of time, and the more people we can get on our side to help bring these bastards to justice, the better.
YNWA
One of the most important things to me about this panel report coming out after the obvious, is what can be shown to the generations born after Hillsborough and to help those who were and still are unaware of what actually happened be educated. This fight for justice will take a lot of time, and the more people we can get on our side to help bring these bastards to justice, the better.
YNWA
That's the closest I've read to my memory of the event. Difference is mainly that we got in quite a bit earlier than that dude so my crush was all inside, there were no probs outside when we went in. Also, we weren't allowed into the side pens. It wasn't that they weren't signed it was that the police were saying we had to go in the centre pens and sort it when we got there, which wasn't possible. Me and my mates always went to the sides as although we had Kop season tickets we were kids and didn't like the madder it bit which was always right behind the goal. I haven't got such clarity on the build up as that dude, but I can relate to the 'switching off' moment, broken for me when I was hoisted over the barrier. I've no idea of what time that happened but the players had left the pitch. It's odd because I didn't leave the ground until around 4.30, I want to see the CCTV because I don't remember much about the bit between escaping the crush and when I actually left. I've seen a couple of pics with me in while I've been trawling around and the inter webs and to be honest they've only reminded me of terrible moments.
No, not at all. Camera footage was examined (can't remember what group did it) and, although its not the most accurate of methods, it was calculated there were about 9700 people in a stand that supposedly held 10000. The problem was the middle pens were overcrowded and there was no outlet to the sides nor via the pitch gates as the police didn't open them until it was too late. Something similar could have happened in 1981 with Spurs but on that occasion the gates were opened promptly avoiding catastrophe and only 38 injuries. Lessons were not learnt.
RIP the 96.
Also, there's at least one guy who's been in a persistent vegetative state ever since - maybe there are others? I'm sorry to say I can't remember his name, but for all intents and purposes he was killed that day as well.
His name is Andrew Devine.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/inde...gh-searching-for-the-truth.22532/#post-801290
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/inde...gh-searching-for-the-truth.22532/#post-801290
There's also suicides afterwards as well, directly & indirectly (as in survivors & their families).
The true toll is higher than the 96, that's for sure.
The sad truth is that had the support groups not had to face these accusations & lies they may have helped more people as they'd have had more money from the nation to do so.
Those lies cost lives after the crush itself, & delayed the rehabilitation of many survivors, who is to say how different those who attended lives would have been had this not happened. No one should be allowed to claim the lies didn't cost lives, they did, & they helped destroy others.
The true toll is higher than the 96, that's for sure.
The sad truth is that had the support groups not had to face these accusations & lies they may have helped more people as they'd have had more money from the nation to do so.
Those lies cost lives after the crush itself, & delayed the rehabilitation of many survivors, who is to say how different those who attended lives would have been had this not happened. No one should be allowed to claim the lies didn't cost lives, they did, & they helped destroy others.
I've read dozens of those sorts of accounts and they always leave me welling up and in a state of agitation. And yet I feel compelled to read them. I'm claustrophobic, and was caught in a crush in which 2 people died in Donington. I know the complete panic I felt then was just a tiny taster of what people who were at Hillsborough went through.
I'd like to reiterate what loads of people have said, and thank Gene for expressing beautifully what so many of us non scousers feel.
Xabi Alonso @XabiAlonso
At last, The Truth came out after 23 years. The dignity and respect of the families of Hillsborough was always an example.#JFT96
At last, The Truth came out after 23 years. The dignity and respect of the families of Hillsborough was always an example.
Until yesterday I've always felt a bit sorry for the police involved. As in the individuals, the people. I always thought that they fucked up but it wasn't a wilful fuck up, and as a top fucker upper of stuff I could easily have fucked it up given half the chance too. But these motherfuckers who've changed the evidence to keep their jobs, and the even worse donkey raping shiteaters who fed the pissing and thieving comments to the press... they can burn. I want them in the dock. I want them to lose everything.
Back then there wasn't any support. It was a couple of weeks before I did my GCSEs and I went from being predicted good grades to failing everything. No one at school even said anything and I started taking a lot of acid, I basically went miles off the rails for the next 10 years. Now life has turned out ok for me but I often think that if it hadn't I might have looked back at that moment and said - that was it... That was when they fucked me. And I'd probably have been nicked for setting fire to public buildings long ago.
Yeah, you'd alluded to as much in the past, & TBH, it was the first time I considered what an enormous impact it had on the survivors.
That support more than likely would have been there had it been treated in the proper manner instead of the whitewash they gave it.
Damn straight. It's worth mentioning there were police there who spoke out afterwards & were silenced by the force though, & I've seen images of police distraught by it too. It's important not to reduce them all to the lowest common denominator, despite me having some less than pleasing experiences with the police I also know a couple of coppers who are sound too, I doubt it was too different then.
Not sure if they chose to change them or had them changed for them if you know what I mean
I understand that. I don't mean the staffers, I mean the cunts that ordered the changes. I hear that the advice to change came from a legal team instructed by the police.
Oh right. Yeh bang those cunts right up
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