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Henry pitches in with formula to pull Reds' socks up - Long read

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King Binny

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Statistical innovation helped to quickly turn the Red Sox into champions, writes Ciaran Cronin, and crunching numbers may aid a Liverpool revival

If there was any doubt as to whether John Henry and his NESV consortium were going to model their ownership at Liverpool on the structures they put in place at the Boston Red Sox, they evaporated on Wednesday afternoon. In appointing Damien Comolli, Tottenham's former director of football, as the club's first director of football strategy – different title, same job – it was entirely reminiscent of the day, in November 2002, when the Red Sox hired 28-year-old Theo Epstein as general manager. Epstein had no formal qualifications in the practical side of baseball but was brimful of knowledge on the theory. Much like Comolli, in respect of football. The American went on to bring two World Series titles to Boston in the space of his first four seasons in the job, not by paying the biggest wages, or signing the most talented players, but through a clear devotion to the principles of sabermetrics. Comolli does not have a body of knowledge to guide him, like young Epstein did when he was appointed, but Henry clearly believes the studious-looking Frenchman can develop it.

Sabermetrics, you ask? "The search for objective knowledge about baseball," is how Bill James, the man credited with developing the theory, describes it. Essentially, it involves the rigorous analysis of the reams of statistics baseball throws up as a matter of course but, crucially, seeks to analyse them in a different way than convention had previously dictated. The best, and indeed easiest, example concerns "batting average", a statistic which goes back to baseball's inception. It is calculated, quite simply, by dividing the number of hits a batter manages by the number of times he is at the plate. For decades, it was the primary method for judging how successful a batter was but the disciples of sabermetrics deem it an unsatisfactory measure of a batter's worth. Instead, they believe a more useful gauge of precisely that is his ability to help his team score runs, which is why they came up with the formula for "on-base percentage". That is but one small example of how sabermetric practitioners have, over the past 20 years, turned the analysis of baseball on its head.

Henry and NESV, it would seem, are attempting to do something similar in the domain of football. A key component of NESV's ownership strategy with the Red Sox was, and still is, to eke out every possible value on the playing side of the financial equation. In Boston, Epstein used sabermetric principles to identify, and in turn recruit, players that few other franchises had even thought of signing. In essence, the Red Sox became successful because of how efficiently they used the limited cash their owners provided them with. They exploited the inefficiencies in the player recruitment market and reaped the benefits.

Producing a similar value for money seems to be high on Henry's plans for Liverpool, even if football has no direct equivalent to sabermetrics. It's fairly obvious why none exists – there are fewer "data points" to glean statistics from in football because, as a sport, it is less start-stop in nature than baseball – but Henry seems to believe that recruitment by numbers in football is not necessarily impossible, particularly as the statistics accompanying the game get better and better. He will, no doubt, be fascinated by the realm of data provided by Prozone, a service that Roy Hodgson insisted Liverpool sign up to on his appointment this summer. While many have been writing the 63-year-old's Anfield obituary these past few days, Hodgson's belief in statistical worth may be regarded as especially useful under the new regime.

Arsene Wenger, as you'd expect, was one of the first managers to subscribe to Prozone's fledgling services a decade ago, which are entirely confidential to the club who pays for them. The common perception is that the statistics only tell how far a player has run and how many passes he has completed but in truth, those are the numbers that are put up for public consumption; in private, they go far deeper than that, as Wenger explains. "If I know that the passing ability of a player is averaging 3.2 seconds to receive the ball and pass it, and suddenly he goes up to 4.5, I can say to him, 'Listen, you keep the ball too much, we need you to pass it quicker'. If he says 'no', I can say look at the last three games: 2.9 seconds, 3.1, 3.2, 4.5." Word has it that Gilberto Silva, Arsenal's Brazilian international midfielder, was shipped out of the Emirates precisely because he was dwelling on the ball too long. It might not be the type of observation that Wenger would have missed without the data at his fingertips, but it must help to have some affirmation all the same.

Prozone, however, is primarily concerned with performance of current players and while it has recently initiated a service for tracking future signings – which Everton have become the first Premier League club to sign up to – Henry, NESV and now Comolli might be more interested in the transfer theories of Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski. The pair's book Soccernomics (or Why England Lose: And other curious phenomena explained as it was called in its first edition) has become a bible for people who want to turn football convention on its head, just like Michael Lewis's Moneyball was for sabermetrics and baseball.

In its pages, Kuper and Szymanski outline, on the back of their research, a number of faults that exist in the transfer market and suggest where real value might actually lie. They offer a list of 12 transfer principles. Some – that stars of recent major tournaments are overvalued, that older players are overvalued and that you should buy players in their 20s – are pretty obvious but there are some suggestions that NESV might want to consider.

For example, the sabermetric belief that too many "sight-based prejudices" exist in recruitment is backed up by Kuper and Szymanski. They cite a survey conducted on football scouts which found that they regularly throw up the names of blond-haired players more than any other, simply because their hair catches the eye. The pair also make the observation that players of certain nationalities are overvalued – the example is given of the agent who finds it much easier to sell a crap Brazilian than a brilliant Mexican – and that clubs need to put more resources into helping new signings relocate.

There is an interesting tranche of beliefs surrounding the sale of players. Kuper and Szymanski recommend that you should always sell a player if another club offers more than he's worth and that sentimentality should never come into it. They also float the notion that a good way of getting a bargain is to sign a player with personal problems and then help him solve them. :angel:

Arguably the most fundamental point that the authors make, however, is that transfer decisions should never be made solely by somebody more interested in the short term. Which is precisely what Henry has done in appointing Comolli to recruit for them. The 38-year-old may have left Tottenham effectively a failure after Juande Ramos was sacked in October 2008 but there is an argument to suggest his White Hart Lane tenure wasn't a complete disappointment. There were as many failures as there were successes – Gareth Bale and Luka Modric on the one side for example; Didier Zokora and David Bentley on the other – when he was responsible for recruitment at the north London club but what's not up for debate is the obtuse manner in which Comolli went about his business.

The Frenchman tended to sign either players in their mid-20s from teams in the top half of European Leagues, or young Englishmen with potential at smaller clubs than Tottenham, rather than established stars. If he wasn't an unqualified success, at least his approach was innovative.

It's something we should expect in Liverpool's transfer dealings from now on.
 
"There is an interesting tranche of beliefs surrounding the sale of players. Kuper and Szymanski recommend that you should always sell a player if another club offers more than he's worth and that sentimentality should never come into it. They also float the notion that a good way of getting a bargain is to sign a player with personal problems and then help him solve them"

I'm getting tired of this quote, and attendant fucking quacking about bastard cunting spreadsheets and sabermetrics.
 
Confirmation that Henry read/made references from their book 'Soccernomics'? 😛
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42639.msg1213394#msg1213394 date=1289155639]
"There is an interesting tranche of beliefs surrounding the sale of players. Kuper and Szymanski recommend that you should always sell a player if another club offers more than he's worth and that sentimentality should never come into it. They also float the notion that a good way of getting a bargain is to sign a player with personal problems and then help him solve them"

I'm getting tired of this quote, and attendant fucking quacking about bastard cunting spreadsheets and sabermetrics.

[/quote]

That is a good way to ruin a football club....

Out: Torres, Gerrard, Reina

In: Cassano, Barton, Robinho etc..

We are fucked.
 
Age + wage factor aside, I hope this sabermetrics thingy isnt going to have a 100% influence in decision making. :-[

Given Hodgson and Comolli are already in disagreement over the goalkeeping situation, Johnson’s unrest could not have surfaced at a worse time.

Reina has been ­earmarked as one of the big-name players who can be sacrificed for the kind of transfer fee that will help Liverpool’s new owners to finance the further rebuilding of the squad Hodgson ­inherited from Rafa ­Benitez in the summer.

Reina, who almost joined Arsenal in the summer for £16m, has insisted that he does not want to leave the club.

But with Arsenal and Manchester United both looking for a top-line keeper, Liverpool will sell if they receive the £20m get-out clause in Reina’s contract.

Hodgson has already earmarked Mark Schwarzer as an ideal replacement, but at 38 the Australian does not have the profile that fits into Comolli’s brief.

The Frenchman, ­recruited by owners New England Sports Ventures without Hodgson’s knowledge, has been tasked with the hiring and firing of players.

Co-owner John W ­Henry has already told Comolli he will not ­sanction the kind of free transfer deal that landed Joe Cole a four-year deal worth £150,000-a-week a few months before his 29th birthday.

Johnson is also ­unlikely to be coveted by a club that will match the £120,000-a-week wages.

Some of the figures like the release clause and Cole's wage/wk seems dodgy though, so take it with a pinch of salt.
 
If anyone in football seriously thinks selling peep reina and replacing him with mark schwartzer is the way forward then they shouldn't even be watching the game, let alone involved in it.

Part of me is very worried about the fact we are being run by people who knowledge of football. Comoli is as miss as he is hit with his signings so i'd want to see what he does first before indulging in the new owners fancy theories on how to revolutionize the transfer market.
 
This is very, very worrying. Clueless cunts like Budgie and some mong with a spreadsheet deciding that Reina could be sacrificed for a 20m fee because of his age, value and contract demands

We could be fucked under this lot
 
The talk about this saberriders and spreadsheets notwithstanding, I think we are getting bit ahead of ourselves though; NESV have also spent big money on top players in the past.

It's not as if we're delegating all control to Skynet.
 
I don't know why you even bother with this. We all know Henry won't sell Reina because of the 20 mill fee mooted.
Won't happen. The articles are full of wrong information and doesn't even deserve reading.

Mark fucking Schwarzer. Hahahaha
 
if players like pepe are sold under this sabermetrics bollocks there will be uproar. Yes, if players are overage and on x amount and not performing, then get rid. However, if they are one of a very few world class players at the club, they should not be considered in sabermetric shit.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42639.msg1218092#msg1218092 date=1289734680]
It's pretty obvious that nobody has any clue about sabermetrics.

[/quote]

True, but it just sounds bollocks
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42639.msg1218092#msg1218092 date=1289734680]
It's pretty obvious that nobody has any clue about sabermetrics.

[/quote]

^^
 
But how will it work in football? In baseball most offensive stats are very much individually based (ie, al capone's baseball speech in the untouchables) whereas in football you're often relying on others (pass completion, assists etc)
 
the problem with all this sabermetrics stuff is that it's so incredibly boring to read about that only a handful of nerds can stand to get themselves properly informed.

i'm not especially keen on the direction we appear to be going in though: i'm very wary of the director of football route, and comolli i particular.
 
That's not really a problem from the football clubs point of view Peter particularly if that's the general attitude in football, it's an advantage.

SG - sabermetrics attempts to strip out all the variables and only count what a player controls, even in baseball it takes some work. The traditional method for judging pitchers is wins and ERA both are heavily dependent on other factors. Sabremetricians look at strikeout to walks ratios, FIP and other stats like that because they recognise that once a ball leaves a bat the pitcher has no control over it.

A lot of the traditional stats in football are similar and it's the stripping out what the player doesn't control that is difficult in football
 
Zlatan and Rosco join forces in championing the use of empirical evidence and trend analysis in football.

But nobody else apart from Ross and massive Zlatan is bright enough to get it. Not even those people who may use similar techniques in their job, or degree or something
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42639.msg1218130#msg1218130 date=1289738875]
Zlatan and Rosco join forces in championing the use of empirical evidence and trend analysis in football.

But nobody else apart from Ross and massive Zlatan is bright enough to get it. Not even those people who may use similar techniques in their job, or degree or something


[/quote]

Nobody has gotten it.

All it takes is a bit of reading, which nobody has done.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42639.msg1218129#msg1218129 date=1289738812]
That's not really a problem from the football clubs point of view Peter particularly if that's the general attitude in football, it's an advantage.

SG - sabermetrics attempts to strip out all the variables and only count what a player controls, even in baseball it takes some work. The traditional method for judging pitchers is wins and ERA both are heavily dependent on other factors. Sabremetricians look at strikeout to walks ratios, FIP and other stats like that because they recognise that once a ball leaves a bat the pitcher has no control over it.

A lot of the traditional stats in football are similar and it's the stripping out what the player doesn't control that is difficult in football
[/quote]

ha, well i only meant it was a problem for a forum-based discussion amongst fans. not a massive problem obv, but irritating nontheless for lazy people like me.
 
I get it. I just choose to mock it, because unlike some credulous buffoons, I don't think it's the answer to football's problems.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42639.msg1218144#msg1218144 date=1289739682]
I get it. I just choose to mock it, because unlike some credulous buffoons, I don't think it's the answer to football's problems.

[/quote]

It's not trying to solve footballs problems.

That would be easier done with large amounts of well placed explosives in London and Manchester.
 
NESV recently gave a 35 year old baseball player a $12 million extension to his contract. I'm not sure NESV are as obsessed with young players as everyone thinks they are.
 
[quote author=plates link=topic=42639.msg1218158#msg1218158 date=1289741508]
NESV recently gave a 35 year old baseball player a $12 million extension to his contract. I'm not sure NESV are as obsessed with young players as everyone thinks they are.
[/quote]

Yeah but in baseball, some players can go into their 40's so I wouldn't read too much into that
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42639.msg1218136#msg1218136 date=1289739142]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42639.msg1218130#msg1218130 date=1289738875]
Zlatan and Rosco join forces in championing the use of empirical evidence and trend analysis in football.

But nobody else apart from Ross and massive Zlatan is bright enough to get it. Not even those people who may use similar techniques in their job, or degree or something


[/quote]

Nobody has gotten it.

All it takes is a bit of reading, which nobody has done.
[/quote]

What the? You sound like you've been brainwashed by these american morons.


Take one pass. Not even I can work out the variables and statistics I need to figure out whether it was a good pass or a bad one. It depends on
- the positions of all the players and opposition players on the pitch
- the exact dimensions of the pitch
- the directions and speeds in which all of the players are moving
- the scorline at the time
- the time elapsed
- the history of the game and how it has panned out (which isn't even a variable)
- the names and histories of all the players on the pitch
- the previous results in games that season
- the risk of the pass, whether if the direction or velocity was slight off it would be intercepted

those variables are not independent either, they all depend on each other and interact with each other. what sabermetrics seems to do is as u say "strip off" most of those variables. so you're ignoring a lot of relavent information. and then basing ur analysis on a single simplified number. that's why its bullshit.

a competent manager or scout, when he watches the game, in his brain he is aware of all the variables i mentioned and more. even though you dont know it, hodgson's dim witted human brain can still process more information and more variables than any computer can. so when fucking roy makes a decision, it is based on better quality information than using a simplified statistic.

why the fuck is it a good idea, to want to use bad quality information instead? just because its objective and emprical? that's not what science is about. thats what stupidity is about.
 
So sabermetrics will add some wonderful new insight to what makes a player good for a team based on oblective & empirical evidence.

It sounds like the sort of shite people spout when they're trying to suggest N'Gog is better than Torres because he has a better goals to minutes on the pitch ratio or that Insua was second behind Gerrard in creating goals for us last year, so is one of our key attacking outlets., or that Lucas made more tackles than everyone else, so he must be our most important defender.

Mind you, if Sabermetrics suggested we don't replace him with Konchesky... then it may have a point afterall... but then again I could have told you that and saved the club a bundle of cash.

My rates are quite reasonable.

Actually why bother... we already have a similar rating for determining a players worth and importance to a team.

It's called Fantasy Premier League...
 
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