Have we solved our LW problems?

[TheBunnyman]

I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?

 

[ILD]

One thing I love about Yossi is his ability to carry the ball in a dangerous area on the pitch. He is our best dribbler and is at ease running with the ball.

My only criticism is his tendency to take too many touches on the ball when just having a shot was the better option.

 

[Squiggles]

I've argued before somewhere that there's absolutely nothing stopping Benayoun becoming our best LW.

I think the belief that he's 'no good on the left' is one of those Brendanisms that has been overstated to a point, and if given enough time to adapt, an in-form Yossi is much, much more dangerous than Riera or Babel.

It's also the position where he's most likely to feature in the 4-2-3-1 because of the "irreplaceables" - Gerrard and Kuyt

Yossi's been in sparkling form for some time, and by all reports Riera has also upped his game this season... we may be alright, y'know.

 

[mike2903]

He was woeful in the first half of last season, then all of a sudden, utter brilliance.

His performances have been consistent and positive whether it's starting or coming from the bench.

Bargain at what we paid for him.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...

 

[Modo]

I think Yossi should be first choice. He has proven it time and time again. Riera has his moments as well. It's good competition, I think we're sorted. I'm a bit worried about the right side though. Don't get me wrong Kuyt is great but where does Babel fit in. His performance against Tottenham was shit to say the least.

 

[keniget]

To be honest, I don't think our widemen were on top form last night, certainly not in the first half when Stoke were giving us more of a game anyways. Yossi has generally not been at his best when deployed on the left in the past, so I wouldn't like to say we've solved our problems out there now on the back of a couple halves in which the opposition had noticeably tired and the game had opened up.

 

[Rafiagra]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.

 

[Squiggles]

Is that a sick joke?

 

[Insignificance]

We have solved until we play a frustrating 0-0 draw and everyone is sooooooo frustrated by the fact that he is never passing in the right moment and they never want to see him in a Liverpool jersey again!!!!

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

How... why?

Gerrard scored twice as many goals last season in that position, than Benayoun has ever scored in a season, ever.

 

[Squiggles]

The thing is, if we play Yossi on the left, we need a Johnson esque fullback constantly overlapping to provide some width.

Insua looks good and tries his best to get forward, but he's nowhere near that level, and is inconsistent over the half way line.

 

[Mors]

I like Yossi, and he's an excellent squad option. But I think we need more than him or Riera for the left. Would be fantastic if we could find someone that chips in with as many as Kuyt.

 

[spider-Neil]

we need

someone to go past players in a wide area
be comfortable in any position in the front 4
score goals
make goals

until we get that then we haven't solved our LW problems.
if kuyt is our ljundberg(sp) we need our pirez, if he is our houghten we need our barnes although yossi can do a job there.

 

[Rafiagra]

Yossi's movement off the ball is far superior to Gerrard's.

There were a lot of times where Gerrard was just screened off the ball last night and we simply had no options going forward.

I think Yossi would be able to find more space and allow us more options going forward.

The difference is though that Gerrard is superior than Yossi when he has the ball so its swings and roundabouts.

I'd be interested to see this:


Torres

Riera Yossi Gerrard


and this:


Torres

Riera Yossi Johnson


Masch Gerrard



I appreciate this means dropping Kuyt who has been excellent, but I'd still like to see what it would be like

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928887#msg928887 date=1250761538]
Yossi's movement off the ball is far superior to Gerrard's.

There were a lot of times where Gerrard was just screened off the ball last night and we simply had no options going forward.

I think Yossi would be able to find more space and allow us more options going forward.

The difference is though that Gerrard is superior than Yossi when he has the ball so its swings and roundabouts.

I'd be interested to see this:


Torres

Riera Yossi Gerrard


and this:


Torres

Riera Yossi Johnson


Masch Gerrard



I appreciate this means dropping Kuyt who has been excellent, but I'd still like to see what it would be like
[/quote]

it's quite possible riera wont be here come the close of the season, he certainly isn't injuried.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928887#msg928887 date=1250761538]
Yossi's movement off the ball is far superior to Gerrard's.[/quote]

No it isn't.

 

[Rafiagra]

In my opinion it is, in you opinion it isnt.

 

[spider-Neil]

yossi's problem is he holds onto the ball to long, if he released the ball earlier he would become a more dangerous and effective player. you don't have to go past 3 players every time you pick up the ball.
a someone said (can't remember who) 'a good player knows when to touch the ball and when NOT to touch the ball'

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928898#msg928898 date=1250761891]
In my opinion it is, in you opinion it isnt.
[/quote]

How many goals does Gerrard get by running onto a ball, or coming into the play late? He makes fantastic runs and finishes them.

What precisely is better about Yossi's movement?

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=35359.msg928856#msg928856 date=1250760314]
To be honest, I don't think our widemen were on top form last night, certainly not in the first half when Stoke were giving us more of a game anyways. Yossi has generally not been at his best when deployed on the left in the past, so I wouldn't like to say we've solved our problems out there now on the back of a couple halves in which the opposition had noticeably tired and the game had opened up.
[/quote]

True, I guess, but that period - when the opposition has tired and the game has opened up - is often when matches are won. It's precisely then that you need your attacking players to step it up and take advantage.

Admittedly it's only two games. And as I said earlier, it's not ideal because it makes us a bit lopsided. But I do think Yossi's gone some way to disproving the idea that he's 'shit on the left'. I would now regard him as a genuine option for that role.

 

[mike2903]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

He's far to slight to play there. It's fine when he runs into that position from outwide, but if he's playing there he can be solidly marked, and he's not big or strong enough to cope with man marking which is virtually what he'd get if he played there.

And there's also the fact that Gerrard is one the best players in the world in that very position.

93 goals in 244 games since Rafa came, the majority played in that position, an average of a goal every 2.5 games.

As well as Yossi's playing, he isn't ever going to reach Gerrard's level of performance, goal scoring or just general importance.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928908#msg928908 date=1250762915]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

He's far to slight to play there. It's fine when he runs into that position from outwide, but if he's playing there he can be solidly marked, and he's not big or strong enough to cope with man marking which is virtually what he'd get if he played there.

And there's also the fact that Gerrard is one the best players in the world in that very position.

93 goals in 244 games since Rafa came, the majority played in that position, an average of a goal every 2.5 games.

As well as Yossi's playing, he isn't ever going to reach Gerrard's level of performance, goal scoring or just general importance.
[/quote]

if there is one position you can get away with being of slight build it's in the hole, that position is about brains not brawn.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928902#msg928902 date=1250762493]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928898#msg928898 date=1250761891]
In my opinion it is, in you opinion it isnt.
[/quote]

How many goals does Gerrard get by running onto a ball, or coming into the play late? He makes fantastic runs and finishes them.

What precisely is better about Yossi's movement?
[/quote]Why are you even bothering to entertain this argument?

 

[Rafiagra]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35359.msg928918#msg928918 date=1250763392]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928902#msg928902 date=1250762493]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928898#msg928898 date=1250761891]
In my opinion it is, in you opinion it isnt.
[/quote]

How many goals does Gerrard get by running onto a ball, or coming into the play late? He makes fantastic runs and finishes them.

What precisely is better about Yossi's movement?
[/quote]Why are you even bothering to entertain this argument?
[/quote]

Stop ruining my fun Oncy

 

[mike2903]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35359.msg928915#msg928915 date=1250763135]
[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928908#msg928908 date=1250762915]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

He's far to slight to play there. It's fine when he runs into that position from outwide, but if he's playing there he can be solidly marked, and he's not big or strong enough to cope with man marking which is virtually what he'd get if he played there.

And there's also the fact that Gerrard is one the best players in the world in that very position.

93 goals in 244 games since Rafa came, the majority played in that position, an average of a goal every 2.5 games.

As well as Yossi's playing, he isn't ever going to reach Gerrard's level of performance, goal scoring or just general importance.
[/quote]

if there is one position you can get away with being of slight build it's in the hole, that position is about brains not brawn.
[/quote]

In Spain or Italy maybe, not over here. Find me 10 succesful central attacking midfielders of Yossi's build in the EPL. There's a few vertically challenged ones (Scholes, Fabregas) but few as slight as Yossi.

Gerrard, Lampard, Ballack, Modric, Ronaldo, all 6foot plus and not exactly skin and bones.

But wingers, i can name a few..... Yossi, Lennon, Walcott, Bentley, Wright-Phillips.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Modric is short and skinny.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928931#msg928931 date=1250764199]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35359.msg928915#msg928915 date=1250763135]
[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928908#msg928908 date=1250762915]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

He's far to slight to play there. It's fine when he runs into that position from outwide, but if he's playing there he can be solidly marked, and he's not big or strong enough to cope with man marking which is virtually what he'd get if he played there.

And there's also the fact that Gerrard is one the best players in the world in that very position.

93 goals in 244 games since Rafa came, the majority played in that position, an average of a goal every 2.5 games.

As well as Yossi's playing, he isn't ever going to reach Gerrard's level of performance, goal scoring or just general importance.
[/quote]

if there is one position you can get away with being of slight build it's in the hole, that position is about brains not brawn.
[/quote]

In Spain or Italy maybe, not over here. Find me 10 succesful central attacking midfielders of Yossi's build in the EPL. There's a few vertically challenged ones (Scholes, Fabregas) but few as slight as Yossi.

Gerrard, Lampard, Ballack, Modric, Ronaldo, all 6foot plus and not exactly skin and bones.

But wingers, i can name a few..... Yossi, Lennon, Walcott, Bentley, Wright-Phillips.
[/quote]

Modric is a pussy, he's a similar build to Yossi, and 5ft 8 hardly equates to 6ft plus, so there's one.

About two years ago there was a player who played in the "hole" for a premier league side, who had pretty much an identical physique to yossi and was widely considered an excellent and dangerous player. I think his name was Yossi Benayoun.

 

[Squiggles]

Scholes is of tiny build and over the course of his career, he's been consistently one of the best attacking midfielders in world football.

As ever, size helps but it can be overcome.

Yossi can play behind Torres, it may well be his most effective position. But nobody else on the planet is stupid enough to suggest Yossi plays 10 better than Steven Gerrard.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928931#msg928931 date=1250764199]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35359.msg928915#msg928915 date=1250763135]
[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=35359.msg928908#msg928908 date=1250762915]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=35359.msg928858#msg928858 date=1250760350]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35359.msg928846#msg928846 date=1250759597]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35359.msg928825#msg928825 date=1250758512]
I've never been convinced by Yossi on the left before, but in his last two games he's been brilliant there - mainly because he comes inside all the time. It means that almost all of our attacks go through the centre or down the right, which will eventually perhaps make us slightly predictable, but all the same he's such a clever, threatening player that I think this is our best option at the moment. It solves two problems: finding a place for one of our most in-form players, and filling a problematic position.

Whaddya think? Is our 'Silva' already at the club?
[/quote]

He cannot be consistently played on the left. It means we completely sacrifice attacking down that side, which is also our weakest in terms of full back cover. We did nothing down the left against Spurs, playing a different LM that really only can cut in. That's fine against Stoke, but it isn't against quality opposition. The problem for Benayoun is that his best position is being occupied by Gerrard, who is in every way superior to him, except perhaps when it comes to nun gimel hay shin, watch the dredel etc...
[/quote]


Yossi would be better in the middle of the 3 than Gerrard is.
[/quote]

He's far to slight to play there. It's fine when he runs into that position from outwide, but if he's playing there he can be solidly marked, and he's not big or strong enough to cope with man marking which is virtually what he'd get if he played there.

And there's also the fact that Gerrard is one the best players in the world in that very position.

93 goals in 244 games since Rafa came, the majority played in that position, an average of a goal every 2.5 games.

As well as Yossi's playing, he isn't ever going to reach Gerrard's level of performance, goal scoring or just general importance.
[/quote]

if there is one position you can get away with being of slight build it's in the hole, that position is about brains not brawn.
[/quote]

In Spain or Italy maybe, not over here. Find me 10 succesful central attacking midfielders of Yossi's build in the EPL. There's a few vertically challenged ones (Scholes, Fabregas) but few as slight as Yossi.

Gerrard, Lampard, Ballack, Modric, Ronaldo, all 6foot plus and not exactly skin and bones.

But wingers, i can name a few..... Yossi, Lennon, Walcott, Bentley, Wright-Phillips.
[/quote]

Oh and sorry i have to point out how stupid this is because no one thinks that half of the attacking midfielders in the league are of Yossi's build. Just that you can be successful with Yossi's build, which you can.