Harry Redknapp.

[Pesam]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48418.msg1471678#msg1471678 date=1327680101]
Up until about four years ago I always referred to spurs, the club, players & fans a yids, until someone mentioned it was an offensive term on here.

I had no idea it was meant to be offensive. I know a spurs fan I met in Egypt 7 years ago & still speak to occasionally who has the spurs badge & the yids tattooed on his arm.

In school most people referred to them as that too. I doubt that many people know its an offensive term, cos its not used by anyone outside of football, offensively or otherwise. At least not in any peers I've been around. Most mates still use it hen discussing spurs too.

In still in the dark as to what it means, is it something to do with Jews & the nazis?
[/quote]

Yiddish is either a slang term for the Hebrew language or a derivative of the language. I can't see how it could be deemed offensive unless it was a part of an offensive comment e.g. "fuck you Yid" but if you put "fuck you" before any collective name it's offensive obviously.

 

[Red Astaire]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48418.msg1471678#msg1471678 date=1327680101]
Up until about four years ago I always referred to spurs, the club, players & fans a yids, until someone mentioned it was an offensive term on here.

I had no idea it was meant to be offensive. I know a spurs fan I met in Egypt 7 years ago & still speak to occasionally who has the spurs badge & the yids tattooed on his arm.

In school most people referred to them as that too. I doubt that many people know its an offensive term, cos its not used by anyone outside of football, offensively or otherwise. At least not in any peers I've been around. Most mates still use it hen discussing spurs too.

In still in the dark as to what it means, is it something to do with Jews & the nazis?
[/quote]

Well I asked my neighbour who is a spurs fan and sometimes comes over to watch games if it was offensive. He said absolutely not. It's fine - There is a jewish element to it as it's short for 'Yiddish' the common jewish language. And the area around the 'Seven Sisters' (Next to White Heart Lane) is a Jewish community. I've never used it in a offensive way and nor would I. The minute a spurs fan tells me it's offensive I will stop saying. I think it's more akin to calling Liverpudlians 'scouse'.... That's hardly offensive is it??? Unless you're a dirty Manc that is! 😉

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471658#msg1471658 date=1327677655]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471646#msg1471646 date=1327675406]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471623#msg1471623 date=1327673478]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471609#msg1471609 date=1327667679]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471607#msg1471607 date=1327667524]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48418.msg1471550#msg1471550 date=1327662413]
So we're allowed to use the word "yids" on here are we? Interesting.
[/quote]

Of course we can, their fans call themselves "yids", they make up songs with it in "Jermaine Defoe, he's yido" and use it all the time.

Of course most of Tottenham's fans aren't Jewish, have the IQ of a baked potato and probably don't even realise that it's offensive, or even know what a Jew is.
[/quote]

Black people call themselves the N word. Does that make ok for us to call them it too?

If only there was a thread we could discuss this in properly...
[/quote]

Most Tottenham fans aren't jewish, so you know.
[/quote]

Lots of Spurs fans are. So you know. And it doesn't make it less offensive.

I see you swerved the N word comparison then?
[/quote]

Their fans, both Jewish and non Jewish are labelling themselves "yidos" and singing songs calling there own players yido, then I'm pretty damn sure they won't take offence in being referred to as the yids.

I didn't swerve your comparison, it's just completely irrelevant until you can find me a football club in the world which refers to itself as the n words. Stop trying to make an argument/ethic debate out of nothing.
[/quote]

Of course its relevant!

Tottenham fans reclaimed the term "Yids" in much the same way as black people have reclaimed the N word.

You're not Jewish, nor a Tottenham fan. I find it difficult for you to tell us that you are "pretty damn sure" that they wouldn't take offence. I have Jewish friends and they do not like being singled out because of their religion by words such as Yid.

Are you actually saying that a term (Yid) that is considered offensive to Jews by most people is ok because Tottenham fans refer to themselves as Yids? If so, its not such a leap to suggest that you're ok if I use the N word towards black people, because some of them refer themselves to the N word.

 

[localny]

I don't like being called Mick or Paddy, and I am sure Jewish people don't want to be called Yid. Non Jewish Spurs fans may feel different - I do cringe when i hear it to be honest. And I am sure my NY friends don't want to be called Yid. Maybe it's one of these Suarez grey areas

 

[peterhague]

yid is definitely an offensive term, similar to paki.

it perhaps doesn't have the same recent history of hateful usage, but i'd certainly never dream of actually addressing a jew as such!

i'd expect them to take offence and probably use their powerful contacts in the ruling elite to make my life a miery.

 

[Red Astaire]

I'd never call a Jewish person 'Yid' because they're jewish... I call Spurs fans that because they call themselves that. Would you call a welsh person a 'Taff' or Scottish person a 'Jock' To label someone in a derigitory term is wrong of course but there are some words that are acceptable no? Spurs fans themselves call themselves 'Yids' - is it wrong to do the same? ???

 

[peterhague]

well obv. it's hardly a revelation that a decent person wouldn't do that, i was just saying it outline that it is in fact an offensive term.

would i refer to Spurs or their fans as 'yids'? probably, in the right company. i'm not sure if it's REALLY acceptable though. i couldn't say i'd much care if i heard people saying it, but then i do hate pretty much all political correctness.

 

[Red Astaire]

Ok - how about calling Chelsea fans 'Chavs' or 'Rent Boys' - now that is an offensive term but it seems that is socially acceptable (In the right company of course) ...

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Red Astaire link=topic=48418.msg1471709#msg1471709 date=1327683498]
Ok - how about calling Chelsea fans 'Chavs' or 'Rent Boys' - now that is an offensive term but it seems that is socially acceptable (In the right company of course) ...
[/quote]

That's a socially acceptable term because its not derogatory on grounds of race or religion.

Posh twat! 😉

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471693#msg1471693 date=1327681440]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471658#msg1471658 date=1327677655]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471646#msg1471646 date=1327675406]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471623#msg1471623 date=1327673478]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471609#msg1471609 date=1327667679]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48418.msg1471607#msg1471607 date=1327667524]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48418.msg1471550#msg1471550 date=1327662413]
So we're allowed to use the word "yids" on here are we? Interesting.
[/quote]

Of course we can, their fans call themselves "yids", they make up songs with it in "Jermaine Defoe, he's yido" and use it all the time.

Of course most of Tottenham's fans aren't Jewish, have the IQ of a baked potato and probably don't even realise that it's offensive, or even know what a Jew is.
[/quote]

Black people call themselves the N word. Does that make ok for us to call them it too?

If only there was a thread we could discuss this in properly...
[/quote]

Most Tottenham fans aren't jewish, so you know.
[/quote]

Lots of Spurs fans are. So you know. And it doesn't make it less offensive.

I see you swerved the N word comparison then?
[/quote]

Their fans, both Jewish and non Jewish are labelling themselves "yidos" and singing songs calling there own players yido, then I'm pretty damn sure they won't take offence in being referred to as the yids.

I didn't swerve your comparison, it's just completely irrelevant until you can find me a football club in the world which refers to itself as the n words. Stop trying to make an argument/ethic debate out of nothing.
[/quote]

Of course its relevant!

Tottenham fans reclaimed the term "Yids" in much the same way as black people have reclaimed the N word.

You're not Jewish, nor a Tottenham fan. I find it difficult for you to tell us that you are "pretty damn sure" that they wouldn't take offence. I have Jewish friends and they do not like being singled out because of their religion by words such as Yid.

Are you actually saying that a term (Yid) that is considered offensive to Jews by most people is ok because Tottenham fans refer to themselves as Yids? If so, its not such a leap to suggest that you're ok if I use the N word towards black people, because some of them refer themselves to the N word.
[/quote]

It is completely irrelevant because one is used to define skin colour in a derogatory manner, the other is being used by it's fans to define a fucking football club. I know they don't take offence because I know loads of Spurs fan, they're everywhere down here, and they all refer to themselves as yidos, never take offence when I call them yidos (in fact them embrace it), make signs of "Yid Army", sing it about their players, their fans and their club. Until you find me someone who's actually offended for religious reasons about me calling Tottenham fans who self label themselves "Yidos" that, you're just another example of PC going completely overboard in this country. If I was referring solely to a group of Jewish people like this, then your argument would have credence, but I'm not and I don't and never will.

Just for the record, before today I didn't even know this was a derogatory term, and I know Jewish people and have spoken about Tottenham with them and called Spurs the yido's, as have they. I'm not trying to be offensive, people are not taking this with offence, stop trying to label me as something I'm not.

 

[gkmacca]

I'm sick and tired of people calling me a cunt. It's hurtful.

 

[Red Astaire]

Ha ha! So if the word 'Yid' is offensive to the Jewish community (Which I never knew) But it seems safe to say it is. I'll never utter it again. I'm just a cockney OOT wanker who didn't know any better 😉

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Didn't Ledley King and a few others make some video trying to stop it?

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=localny link=topic=48418.msg1471683#msg1471683 date=1327680425]
Yiddish and Hebrew are similar languages used in Jewish communities. Yiddish was commonly used by European Jews. That would be the connection - due to the European connection of the word, it definitely has dodgy undertones. It would raise the hair on the back of the neck of older Jewish folk. in New York, I'm not sure if the Hasidim and orthodox communities speak Yiddish or Hebrew, mind.
[/quote]

Yiddish is a language which was used by Eastern European Jews - it's a mix of German, Hebrew and a little Polish + Russian. It was used by them in parallel to using the local language in every country they lived in. The language was spread to other countries in the western world as Jews fled Eastern Europe and immigrated to the West (e.g. US, France, UK, Argentina etc.)
My father was born in Warsaw, My mother in Argentina (to parents who immigrated from Eastern Europe. They met and married in Israel. The language we used at home was Hebrew. When they didn't want us to understand they used Yiddish. However, I did manage to pick up enough of the language to understand what they didn't wanted me to...

Yid == Jew and Yiddish == Jewish.

I've always lived in Israel, so I only heard Jews using the word Yid. It obviously was not offensive. However, it all depends on who uses the word and in what circumstances. Abroad and when used by non-Jewish I assume it's sometimes used in an offensive manner. When used by the Nazis it was definitely offensive and abusive. Same for other Jew haters.

So, yes I guess it's similar to the N word discussions we had here - it can be offensive and it probably is used as such by some people.

localny - many of the orthodox Jews in NY speak Yiddish, as many of them never lived in Isreal and never learnt Hebrew. However, nowadays there are many Jews there whose origins are Sefaradi (they normally come from Muslim countries) and they definitely do not speak Yiddish. There are also many ex Israelis there who speak Hebrew.

 

[themn]

Let's have a heated debate !

 

[Fabio]

I'd rather have a mass debate

 

[Bologna]

In other news, Harry is trying to claim a lack of mens rea.

If I was on the Jury I'd be asking myself "Why did he go to Monaco in person to open the account and the only 2 transactions in the history of that account are the 2 mentioned in court?"

 

[themn]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471728#msg1471728 date=1327685764]
I'd rather have a mass debate
[/quote]

I expect more from you.

D.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=themn link=topic=48418.msg1471733#msg1471733 date=1327686239]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471728#msg1471728 date=1327685764]
I'd rather have a mass debate
[/quote]

I expect more from you.

D.
[/quote]

I'd expect you to double post

 

[themn]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471740#msg1471740 date=1327686970]
[quote author=themn link=topic=48418.msg1471733#msg1471733 date=1327686239]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471728#msg1471728 date=1327685764]
I'd rather have a mass debate
[/quote]

I expect more from you.

D.
[/quote]

I'd expect you to double post
[/quote]

Well now the senior mods have sorted the site tech issues out, my difficulties appear to have vanished.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=themn link=topic=48418.msg1471770#msg1471770 date=1327688225]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471740#msg1471740 date=1327686970]
[quote author=themn link=topic=48418.msg1471733#msg1471733 date=1327686239]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48418.msg1471728#msg1471728 date=1327685764]
I'd rather have a mass debate
[/quote]

I expect more from you.

D.
[/quote]

I'd expect you to double post
[/quote]

Well now the senior mods have sorted the site tech issues out, my difficulties appear to have vanished.
[/quote]

 

[Spionkop69]

Mystic, I have not painted you as anything.

You've done a good enough job of that yourself with your ignorance of the issue and your complete lack of acceptance that there is a parallel to calling a black man the n word.

Football banter does not excuse it.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=48418.msg1471820#msg1471820 date=1327690439]
Mystic, I have not painted you as anything.

You've done a good enough job of that yourself with your ignorance of the issue and your complete lack of acceptance that there is a parallel to calling a black man the n word.

Football banter does not excuse it.
[/quote]

You've implied that me calling Tottenham fans a name they call themselves and refer to themselves as, and have done since long before I was born, is as bad as calling a black man the n word, so you've very much painted me as something im not, a racist none the less, hence when im so wound up about this.

Tell me, are non Jewish Spurs fans who refer to themselves as yids racist?

 

[themn]

#HeatedRaceDebateFlashpoint

 

[Farkmaster]

It is absolutely not in the same league as calling a black man the n word. Context is important.


And it's spurs fans who have complicated the matter. That said, there are some nasty resonances for some people.

 

[iseered]

When will you people tire of talking about race?

 

[Farkmaster]

You people?! What do you mean by that!

 

[peterhague]

i don't think John was ever trying to imply that it's as serious as using 'ni*ger', just that you can't excuse using the word yourself on grounds that spurs fans do - in a spirit of reappropriation quite different from its traditional, abusive usage - just as it'd be pathetic for a white to defend his using 'nigg*r' on the grounds that some blacks also do.

although there's definitely another difference in that yid is directed at Spurs fans as a whole and not specifically at jews, and so it's clearly less serious - but still a bit distasteful, really.

 

[Dave]

HARDCORE

 

[themn]

[quote author=iseered link=topic=48418.msg1471849#msg1471849 date=1327692637]
When will you people tire of talking about race?
[/quote]