If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
Give the man a new contract
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That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Managers like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Managers like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
Everything else IS perception, but so are the stats you're reeling off. A player can spend the game playing the short, easy pass and have a high pass succession rate.
I'm not a Lucas 'hater' and I like the lad and I'm glad he's getting rewarded, but stats can't change what I see on the pitch most weeks, which is usually a fairly steady, unspectacular, water-carrying performance.
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
Everything else IS perception, but so are the stats you're reeling off. A player can spend the game playing the short, easy pass and have a high pass succession rate.
I'm not a Lucas 'hater' and I like the lad and I'm glad he's getting rewarded, but stats can't change what I see on the pitch most weeks, which is usually a fairly steady, unspectacular, water-carrying performance.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308180#msg1308180 date=1301562611]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308181#msg1308181 date=1301562724]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
Everything else IS perception, but so are the stats you're reeling off. A player can spend the game playing the short, easy pass and have a high pass succession rate.
I'm not a Lucas 'hater' and I like the lad and I'm glad he's getting rewarded, but stats can't change what I see on the pitch most weeks, which is usually a fairly steady, unspectacular, water-carrying performance.
[/quote]
Indeed you say that but often they said that about Makalele and Deschamps. Thats the job of a defensive midfielder and Lucas does it better than most. That's all I'm saying. Look at his workrate, his last ditch tackles in the box. He's always in the face of his opposition midfielder, he's annoying. he's not there Hollywood balls and killer passes. That's what I mean when I say perception. That's how I see Lucas.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
Everything else IS perception, but so are the stats you're reeling off. A player can spend the game playing the short, easy pass and have a high pass succession rate.
I'm not a Lucas 'hater' and I like the lad and I'm glad he's getting rewarded, but stats can't change what I see on the pitch most weeks, which is usually a fairly steady, unspectacular, water-carrying performance.
[/quote]
Indeed you say that but often they said that about Makalele and Deschamps. Thats the job of a defensive midfielder and Lucas does it better than most. That's all I'm saying. Look at his workrate, his last ditch tackles in the box. He's always in the face of his opposition midfielder, he's annoying. he's not there Hollywood balls and killer passes. That's what I mean when I say perception. That's how I see Lucas.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308183#msg1308183 date=1301562869]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308180#msg1308180 date=1301562611]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[/quote]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308180#msg1308180 date=1301562611]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[/quote]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
No actually he just makes the most tackles.
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
No actually he just makes the most tackles.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=44498.msg1308186#msg1308186 date=1301563526]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
No actually he just makes the most tackles.
[/quote]
I stand corrected. Still an impressive stat though.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308179#msg1308179 date=1301562568]
That's your opinion, he wins more tackles than any other midfielder in the League and his passing rate is in the high 80's which suggests he does what a defensive midfielder has to do, he wins it and he keeps it. Anything else is just perception and opinion. He's a good as Obi Mikel or Carrick or whoever Arsenal plays.
[/quote]
No actually he just makes the most tackles.
[/quote]
I stand corrected. Still an impressive stat though.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop rather he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop rather he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop rather he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Deary me.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop rather he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Deary me.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308198#msg1308198 date=1301563951]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308200#msg1308200 date=1301564021]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[/quote]
And what's their perception? That he's a 'great' defensive midfielder? That he's a good player to have in the squad? That we want players playing for us that will give 100%, even if their quality isn't quite 'up there' with the standards you'd normally associate for a first teamer in a top class side (or one with aspirations to be)? That he's a nice, popular lad who's positive to have around?
Yes, it's all about perception.
Oh, and Rafa bought him, obv.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[/quote]
And what's their perception? That he's a 'great' defensive midfielder? That he's a good player to have in the squad? That we want players playing for us that will give 100%, even if their quality isn't quite 'up there' with the standards you'd normally associate for a first teamer in a top class side (or one with aspirations to be)? That he's a nice, popular lad who's positive to have around?
Yes, it's all about perception.
Oh, and Rafa bought him, obv.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308202#msg1308202 date=1301564218]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308198#msg1308198 date=1301563951]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[/quote]
Yes kopking, clearly I need educating. Perhaps you and RAWK should get me in a room one day with a chalk board.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308198#msg1308198 date=1301563951]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[/quote]
Yes kopking, clearly I need educating. Perhaps you and RAWK should get me in a room one day with a chalk board.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308183#msg1308183 date=1301562869]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308180#msg1308180 date=1301562611]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[/quote]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
If we don't buy a replacement who will push Lucas down to the bench this summer, I'll be amazed. I suspect he's been offered a contract to preserve his value.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308183#msg1308183 date=1301562869]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308180#msg1308180 date=1301562611]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308175#msg1308175 date=1301562391]
If Benitez bought him, both Hodgson and Dalglish have picked him and he gets to play for Brazil then he must be bringing something valuable to those teams. Maybe a lot of fans are calling it wrong on this one?
[/quote]
Yes and no.
Lucas keeps getting picked because he stands where he's told to, runs where he's told to and all in all is quite reliable. Manager like that. It's why you've seen guys like Park get picked for big games at Utd - he works hard, is tactically aware and does what he's told. Lucas is a bit like that for us.
The other reason he keeps getting picked, obviously, is that both Benitez and Hodgson bought very poorly to replace departing players. Lucas doesn't have much competition, does he?
[/quote]
Like said earlier in the thread, Rafa bought him, so of course he played him, sometimes too much or too often. Roy and Kenny were left with no real defensive midfielder to work with. And tbf, Roy tried to bring one in in Poulsen, who failed. So as you said, he's got no competition. Add to that he IS one of those Duracel Bunny type players who'll work and work and never suffer much from fatigue, he'd ideal to have in the squad.
Just let's not pretend he's fucking brilliant eh?
[/quote]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
If we don't buy a replacement who will push Lucas down to the bench this summer, I'll be amazed. I suspect he's been offered a contract to preserve his value.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308205#msg1308205 date=1301564328]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308202#msg1308202 date=1301564218]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308198#msg1308198 date=1301563951]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[/quote]
Yes kopking, clearly I need educating. Perhaps you and RAWK should get me in a room one day with a chalk board.
[/quote]
Let's not bring RAWK into it. I seldom go there. Nor be flippant. This is about Lucas, can you not be prepared to see him in a positive light to be objective? What would you like to see him do to change your mind? He can pass first time, he makes himself available, he wins the ball, he rarely loses it. He's as good as Masher and he wants to play for us.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308202#msg1308202 date=1301564218]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308198#msg1308198 date=1301563951]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308196#msg1308196 date=1301563878]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308194#msg1308194 date=1301563823]
Lucas is good enough to start. If he needs competition, it should come from outside the squad and it will take a good player to oust him.
[/quote]
Yes. We need to buy someone in the summer and he needs to be very good. I agree.
[/quote]
mwahahahaha...
[/quote]
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one shall we? It's a shame you don't know your football on a deeper tactical level to recognise this contribution. But you will change your mind about Lucas and what he does for the team. Maybe he needs a goal or two.
[/quote]
Yes kopking, clearly I need educating. Perhaps you and RAWK should get me in a room one day with a chalk board.
[/quote]
Let's not bring RAWK into it. I seldom go there. Nor be flippant. This is about Lucas, can you not be prepared to see him in a positive light to be objective? What would you like to see him do to change your mind? He can pass first time, he makes himself available, he wins the ball, he rarely loses it. He's as good as Masher and he wants to play for us.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44498.msg1308203#msg1308203 date=1301564269]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308200#msg1308200 date=1301564021]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[/quote]
And what's their perception? That he's a 'great' defensive midfielder? That he's a good player to have in the squad? That we want players playing for us that will give 100%, even if their quality isn't quite 'up there' with the standards you'd normally associate for a first teamer in a top class side (or one with aspirations to be)? That he's a nice, popular lad who's positive to have around?
Yes, it's all about perception.
Oh, and Rafa bought him, obv.
[/quote]
Obviously those are their perceptions or they wouldn't have given him a new contract. So they think he's good enough for Liverpool.
I don't think he is good enough for anything other than a squad position personally and I'm surprised that his contract has been renogotiated.
My initial post was asking if a lot of Liverpool fans are wrong about Lucas in light of the faith shown in him by Dalglish and Comolli.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308200#msg1308200 date=1301564021]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44498.msg1308190#msg1308190 date=1301563683]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308185#msg1308185 date=1301563508]
Perceived lack of competition doesn't adequately explain why he's been given a new contract so close to the season's end and summer transfer window though by a new management team.
The easy option would just be to content yourself with him for the next few months then sell him and bring in a replacement.
The evidence that he's not good enough for Liverpool doesn't seem to fit for past and present Managers.
[/quote]
I don't think the word "perceived" was necessary. We all know the competition is next to non-existant.
Secondly, I don't think many are genuinely concerned about arguing that he's not good enough for Liverpool full stop. the main argument is that he should not be an automatic starter.
Come the summer, do you think we can strike off the position of defensive midfielder as being filled?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about my perception, I'm talking about the perception of 3 Managers and a Director of Football. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
[/quote]
And what's their perception? That he's a 'great' defensive midfielder? That he's a good player to have in the squad? That we want players playing for us that will give 100%, even if their quality isn't quite 'up there' with the standards you'd normally associate for a first teamer in a top class side (or one with aspirations to be)? That he's a nice, popular lad who's positive to have around?
Yes, it's all about perception.
Oh, and Rafa bought him, obv.
[/quote]
Obviously those are their perceptions or they wouldn't have given him a new contract. So they think he's good enough for Liverpool.
I don't think he is good enough for anything other than a squad position personally and I'm surprised that his contract has been renogotiated.
My initial post was asking if a lot of Liverpool fans are wrong about Lucas in light of the faith shown in him by Dalglish and Comolli.
It depends on the size of the contract though.
5 years is pretty long, and if it's on big wages then I'd have to say its insanity. What does he offer?
He's an OK midfielder and is average at both AM and DM; and he's arguably worse at DM which is the greater concern for us because that's probably where he'll play the most.
I suspect (and hope) that this contract is with the hope that he'll continue to improve and will attract interest from the continent; if he's seen as a long-term mainstay for us then we're going to look pretty poor in midfield for a long time. The timing of this deal is also a bit funny; surely it could have waited until June when Aquilani would have been sorted out.
And is this curtains for any Charlie Adam deal?
5 years is pretty long, and if it's on big wages then I'd have to say its insanity. What does he offer?
He's an OK midfielder and is average at both AM and DM; and he's arguably worse at DM which is the greater concern for us because that's probably where he'll play the most.
I suspect (and hope) that this contract is with the hope that he'll continue to improve and will attract interest from the continent; if he's seen as a long-term mainstay for us then we're going to look pretty poor in midfield for a long time. The timing of this deal is also a bit funny; surely it could have waited until June when Aquilani would have been sorted out.
And is this curtains for any Charlie Adam deal?
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44498.msg1308218#msg1308218 date=1301564847]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44498.msg1308213#msg1308213 date=1301564753]
As good as Mascherano?
Really?
[/quote]
Really. He makes more tackles and passes much, much better. Had Barcelona bought Lucas and not Masher, Lucas would have played more games.
[/quote]
April Fool's is tomorrow mate.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44498.msg1308213#msg1308213 date=1301564753]
As good as Mascherano?
Really?
[/quote]
Really. He makes more tackles and passes much, much better. Had Barcelona bought Lucas and not Masher, Lucas would have played more games.
[/quote]
April Fool's is tomorrow mate.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44498.msg1308220#msg1308220 date=1301564895]
My initial post was asking if a lot of Liverpool fans are wrong about Lucas in light of the faith shown in him by Dalglish and Comolli.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think most on here have been fair about their assessment of this deal though, he's good enough for the squad, in terms of ability, personality and influence. Like said though, I don't think faith from those professionals necessarily means that he's better than some think he is or that our opinions of his ability are wrong.
I think most fans on here, like many Liverpool fans, know their football well enough to make a fair assessment of a player.
My initial post was asking if a lot of Liverpool fans are wrong about Lucas in light of the faith shown in him by Dalglish and Comolli.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think most on here have been fair about their assessment of this deal though, he's good enough for the squad, in terms of ability, personality and influence. Like said though, I don't think faith from those professionals necessarily means that he's better than some think he is or that our opinions of his ability are wrong.
I think most fans on here, like many Liverpool fans, know their football well enough to make a fair assessment of a player.
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