Gini in a bottle
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I think we all expected a creative player scoring between 7-10 goals a season with 4-6 assists.
But it seems he and Klopp are happy for him to just sit in next to hendo and spray passes about...which I don't mind him doing but I feel he's better in advanced role.
But it seems he and Klopp are happy for him to just sit in next to hendo and spray passes about...which I don't mind him doing but I feel he's better in advanced role.
Yeah, that's all valid, and certainly we should expect more from Wijnaldum in an attacking sense, but regardless of his price tag, I'm still happier with him in the team than when Joe Allen was here. He's a better player.
Agree. I like Joe Allen and he was playing well when we sold him (which is presumably why we managed to do so for a reasonable price) but Wijnaldum is a better fit for us given Klopp's all-action style. Footy's a team game first and foremost and our team plays better with an in-form Wijnaldum in it.
I don't think you could say he is a "major" contributor to 2nd place. You'd have to look to the likes of Matip, Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Mane, Firmino & Hendo who have all been much more important performers so far this season.
I'm still a bit Meh on Gini. Yes he is good at moving the ball around, and has made some good passes but he is still incredibly tentative in the final third. I thought we had signed him as a goal scoring midfielder - if that isn't his role, then what is his role exactly?
I've said in previous threads that I like that his instincts get him into the right positions in the box, but he has fluffed his lines every time - is he really that player to be finishing off moves in the box?
But even those heat maps show that he has less of the ball than Henderson, Lovren, Milner, and Mane.
All he does is pass. 🙂
All he does is pass. 🙂
He tracked back yesterday and in other games expertly, he's not quite a box to box midfielder but he's not far off that, hes frequently deeper then Hendo defending only to then be at the other end of the pitch ahead of henderson, thats no slant at Henderson and his work rate, it looks like its his job to the utility man all over the pitch.
Personally I'd put him ahead of half of those on your list, in terms of how effective he's been and his influence on our style (and therefore results). Especially considering he'd virtually an ever-present. Matip has only played in 9 PL games for example.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, he's pretty much the water-carrier/ fulcrum / linch-pin. Essential but easily overlooked in favour of the more technically dazzling players in our front-line or a CB that annihilates the opposition attack (Matip).
I do see that Klopp has severely restricted his role though (compared to that at Newcastle - where he was considered at his best as a wide attacking midfielder) - hence he isn't scoring as he had been for Newcastle (and even more so before arriving on these shores). I do agree that is one area of his game (even though he won't have as many chances as at Newcastle) he can improve on. Despite how he's being used I'd still expect 7-8 goals a season from him.
Of course it all depends on the opposition. I've seen others where he's clearly seen more of the ball than anyone else. When you have teams sit back like West Ham, Burnley, Bournemouth (1st half), Everton (2nd half), United etc. then clearly Henderson will see more of the ball than anyone else and our FBs will be our main outlets for moving the ball forward since Klopp likes to have us frequently switch play from one side of the pitch to the other.
It does seem weird that he scored so many at Newcastle, as he doesn't appear a natural goalscorer so far, more in the Henderson mould where he's likely as not to sky it
Sometimes, when a player's role is changed, he concentrates so hard on his new job that he loses some of what he used to do before. Back in the day Steve Heighway arrived at LFC as one of the most one-footed players (left-footed in his case) I could remember seeing in a Liverpool shirt. We then worked really hard on his right foot because we wanted to play him more centrally, so that by the time he left he was even taking dead ball kicks with his right, while using his left relatively sparingly. More recently we've seen Nathaniel Clyne lose the excellent attacking play he used to be able to produce, after Rodgers told him (and the rest) to play things tighter than a mouse's @rsehole as the Rodgers regime imploded. Maybe something like that is going on here, the difference being that I'm sure Klopp can open Wijnaldum's play out again if he so chooses.
He looks very classy at times. I get the feeling there's more to come.
Look. Not to get weird about it because clearly you lot see something good in him, but even the Footy 365 article pasted in the post Everton match thread had this to say about Wijnaldum:
"Wijnaldum is a drifter – it is very hard to identify exactly what it is he’s bringing to the party. The Dutchman has created only 19 chances in 1,196 league minutes; he is seventh on Liverpool’s list."
Still not sure what more he adds than someone else who might chip in with goals or even assists.
"Wijnaldum is a drifter – it is very hard to identify exactly what it is he’s bringing to the party. The Dutchman has created only 19 chances in 1,196 league minutes; he is seventh on Liverpool’s list."
Still not sure what more he adds than someone else who might chip in with goals or even assists.
The mistake which that makes and which, with respect, you make in quoting it with approval is the idea that stats are the be-all and end-all, that the only things that count are those that can be measured. For one thing, the stats themselves aren't gospel - one statto deciding what was an "assist" and what wasn't in a particular game does not constitute a reliably objective database. For another, there are no stats of any kind yet which measure the contributions of players other than those who make the final pass or scoring shot. At the moment Wijnaldum isn't on the end of moves very often, but he does play a vital role in building them up. Without him doing the job he does, there'd be a sight fewer goals and assists for anyone to count.
Interesting that so many of those goals were from Gini arriving late in the box ... many on the break. That simply isn't his job this season and so would be unlikely we'd see him as the midfielder arriving in support of a breakaway. I guess we should temper expectations.
Gini will be one of those players that not everyone will appreciate until he is not there for some reason -
Really ? - you are most likely right but I really feel for those supporters that don't quite see what he already contributes. He is the Tick-Tock of our team, the "Fulcrum", the Orchestrator, the "Slim" - Controller etc.. When he is not in the team - the focus in our midfield becomes a little blurred. Hard to tell what will happen.
Much like Lucas
Ha that was in jest.
I've been quietly impressed so far.
His awareness and movement and ability to move the ball effortlessly under pressure while always seeming to take up the perfect position to receive the ball from a teammate in trouble is 2nd to none so far.
I've been quietly impressed so far.
His awareness and movement and ability to move the ball effortlessly under pressure while always seeming to take up the perfect position to receive the ball from a teammate in trouble is 2nd to none so far.
There's a huge difference in our fluidity when Can plays there compared to Wijnaldum. Gini's in our best line up, no doubt.
Haha no , the exact reverse of Lucas
Yes, I hope if it's a choice between the two Gini wins the toss
People who don't get Gini, don't get football. He's only been here five minutes and already is a vital cog. A long and successful Reds career under Klopp looks assured.
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The issue isn't through lack of understanding. I think everyone appreciates he's playing a new role and getting forward less than at Newcastle. The problem is when he is forward and the team is in full control his shooting had been abysmal. That's been the one disappointment and cause for improvement. If he can add 5-7 league goals a year he'll be a hell of a player.
Fair comment. I have every confidence that Klopp and he will sort it between them.
That's a bit of a glib response, considering Sanchez obviously DOES get football
I worry when I hear phrases like 'people who don't understand why X plays, don't understand football' because it's used to describe players who split the fan base and don't have universal approval
Now sometimes it's valid, when a spaz might question the likes of Alonso (yeah it happened) or even Carragher, but I've also seen it used to defend why players like Joe Allen, Lucas, Crouch, Heskey, Morientes, Sakho and dozens of other shit players get games
You think Heskey and Crouch were shit players for us? I rest my point.
You were probably one of the whoppers on the Kop who gave Ronnie Whelan shit.
You rest cases. You make points.
You've actually done neither
Heskey was amanzing in his first full season. 20-0dd goals and almost unplayable. Never replicated that form again.
Crouch was and is, shit
And no, I was a huge fan of Whelan, and thoroughly appreciated his role as the holding central midfielder, although I can understand why some fans missed the fleet-footed goal-scoring left midfielder of his earlier days
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