Gerrard

[LeTallecWiz]

Apparently Gerrard is pissed off that he's been offered a pay cut to sign a new deal. He ought to be relieved he's being offered a new deal, full stop. For all of the great ways that he serves the club off the field he's a shambolic mess on the field in recent weeks, if not months.

I alluded to Kobe - who took a massive contract in the NBA for the only team he's played for and basically will play the last years of his career going for personal records as his team is shit. Compare it to Dirk Nowtizki, who took a lower salary (still over 10 mill a year) so his team could compete for the championship for his last few years ... The club is bigger than any player - even Stevie G.

 

[gkmacca]

Yes. And he's a bit scary as a presence as far as the manager is concerned. I doubt he realises it, because he's always been a bit insular, but he is. The problem, for managers, is that he turns so quickly from pro to con. I remember when he was interviewed a few years ago and he said of Rafa something like, 'This man is a genius, the club needs to do all it can to keep him here for decades'. A few months later he was doing his classic head shake routine for the benefit of the cameras. Then last season he was saying how lucky the club was to have Rodgers and how they should tie him to the club for years and years. This season....the on-camera head shake looks like it's on its way. It's unfortunate in some ways that he IS captain. It makes controlling him much more difficult politically and publicly. Kenny never was captain and both Paisley and Fagan could rest him without any real discussion (and Kenny had the good grace and selflessness to accept it as good for the team at the time). With Gerrard any move, no matter how slight, to question his inviolable right to be at the centre of things is immediately deemed contentious. In cold hard logical terms we need a new captain and Gerrard needs, at best, a spell on the bench. But the legend aspect will make this very messy.

 

[jexykrodic]

Yes. And he's a bit scary as a presence as far as the manager is concerned. I doubt he realises it, because he's always been a bit insular, but he is. The problem, for managers, is that he turns so quickly from pro to con. I remember when he was interviewed a few years ago and he said of Rafa something like, 'This man is a genius, the club needs to do all it can to keep him here for decades'. A few months later he was doing his classic head shake routine for the benefit of the cameras. Then last season he was saying how lucky the club was to have Rodgers and how they should tie him to the club for years and years. This season....the on-camera head shake looks like it's on its way. It's unfortunate in some ways that he IS captain. It makes controlling him much more difficult politically and publicly. Kenny never was captain and both Paisley and Fagan could rest him without any real discussion (and Kenny had the good grace and selflessness to accept it as good for the team at the time). With Gerrard any move, no matter how slight, to question his inviolable right to be at the centre of things is immediately deemed contentious. In cold hard logical terms we need a new captain and Gerrard needs, at best, a spell on the bench. But the legend aspect will make this very messy.

If I was BR I'd be looking at it as 'him or me'.

There is no doubt that Gerrard is out of form, that's all the justification BR needs and I doubt many would argue.

Of course, it's a high risk strategy and puts BR on course for a very quick contract termination if it fails to improve results. There again sticking to the current team is high risk also. BR is in a very tough place, I don't envy him and have some sympathy for his predicament.

 

[FoxForceFive]

If I was BR I'd be looking at it as 'him or me'.

There is no doubt that Gerrard is out of form, that's all the justification BR needs and I doubt many would argue.

Of course, it's a high risk strategy and puts BR on course for a very quick contract termination if it fails to improve results. There again sticking to the current team is high risk also. BR is in a very tough place, I don't envy him and have some sympathy for his predicament.

The problem is I highly doubt simply swapping out Gerrard for Can or Lucas would help matters enough to turn things round.

 

[jexykrodic]

The problem is I highly doubt simply swapping out Gerrard for Can or Lucas would help matters enough to turn things round.

I'm not sure it's just an on field change that's needed. The Manager needs to show who is in charge and that starting places are on merit not reputation.

 

[davud graham]

Where Gerrards playing certainly isn't the only problem the team has and making a change there won't fix all of the problems (centre back patnership, Meek goalkeeper , lack of goals and lack of chances created) but it really is such an obvious problem that the longer Rogers doesn't address it the more clueless he looks.

 

[Hansern]

@FootyMemes: Steven Gerrard and Martin Skrtel won 0% of their tackles today.

A defensive midfielder and a defender. Yes ZERO!

 

[Whirly]

I don't really understand where Gerrard fits into this squad anymore. He obviously doesn't have the mentality or energy to play the DM role.

So then you look at other positions to play him. He doesn't have the legs for CM or CAM, especially if we expect pressing from those positions. And it's not like we can play him up top/out wide/in defence for obvious reasons as well.

So is Gerrard's role in this team best as a 20 minute sub? Because that's not a great option either considering we have more defensive options(Allen, Lucas, Can), and attacking options(Lallana, Markovic, Borini) available.

So as long as Gerrard is here, CDM is probably the best position for him by process of elimination. But that's more due to him not being up to playing most other roles for us, not his ability at the CDM role. And if BR wants to keep starting Gerrard, there aren't many great options in terms of moving him around.

 

[gkmacca]

He's like an angry dad arriving in his kids' room every time he hears a crash. 'Oh god, what have you done now?' We concede a goal? There's Steven, arriving late on the scene to glower at his keeper and defenders. We feck up an attack? There's Steven again, arriving just in time to glower at his attackers before turning round again. There isn't anyone, alas, to glower at him.

 

[davud graham]

It reminds me of when carragher's career was coming to an end. Whenever he made a mistake he immediately gave someone a bollocking to cover up his own error. None of us likes getting older or slower.

 

[Lippy]

Never won a single tackle today. In that position, he is our biggest problem. He's always a legend in my eyes but him playing there is killing us

 

[Modo]

It reminds me of when carragher's career was coming to an end. Whenever he made a mistake he immediately gave someone a bollocking to cover up his own error. None of us likes getting older or slower.

So fucking true

 

[RedStar]

Hes done, there is no point pretending anymore, his legs are gone. He has to dropped, along with several other players. Anybody arguing he should stay in the team needs to ask themselves why? What is he bringing to the team? When was his last good game?

 

[Brizzle]

Never won a single tackle today. In that position, he is our biggest problem. He's always a legend in my eyes but him playing there is killing us

Agreed. And it is so hard to watch knowing just how much he has given to the club in his time here.. I'd much rather he was happy to come on for the odd 20-30 minute cameo in an attacking role where he can show that he still knows how to pick teams apart.

 

[Lippy]

Agreed. And it is so hard to watch knowing just how much he has given to the club in his time here.. I'd much rather he was happy to come on for the odd 20-30 minute cameo in an attacking role where he can show that he still knows how to pick teams apart.

His most positive contributions this season have been when he's pushed up later in games.

 

[Red Astaire]

Agreed. And it is so hard to watch knowing just how much he has given to the club in his time here.. I'd much rather he was happy to come on for the odd 20-30 minute cameo in an attacking role where he can show that he still knows how to pick teams apart.

Agree completely. I knew this day would come and it appears to be now. Gutting 🙁

 

[mark1975]

I think the original post made it fairly clear it wasn't targeting Gerrard as the root of our problems, so I don't know a couple of people have taken offense to it and assumed he's getting the full blame, read the fucking post.

It's collective, the keeper and back four are a shambles, particularly Johnson, Mignolet and Lovren. Manquillo is doing well for a rooky and Skrtel at least gives his all and covers the ground mopping up for everyone elses fuck ups, the midfield don't protect well enough, we need Lucas or Can in there for a bit of stability and bite. Gerrard is looking more and more leggy and he's getting exposed as too slow to get back and too cumbersome on the ball - Rodgers needs to start resting him and showing the bottle to take him off in games.

 

[gkmacca]

There's a culture of deference that needs to be stopped. The default move for his teammates in midfield is to pass to him. That was fine when he knew what to do with it. Now it's like KGB members handing reports to a comotose Brezhnev.

 

[Markeh]

Gerrard had a lot of value in a team with two fantastic strikers and lots of movement.

 

[hmmmmm1]

BR doesn't have the balls to drop him

 

[Mors]

BR doesn't have the balls to drop him

Agreed, he doesn't have the kahoona's to sort it out. It will be Gerrard makes the decision on what Gerrard is going to do. I hate to say it, but he might do us a favour if he pushes for a move abroad. It'll save the bollockless manager from having to deal with a situation that he wont deal with.
To be fair to Rodgers though, there's not many managers out there that do have the nuts to handle this sort of situation. He's not in a minority.

 

[SummerOnions]

If he drops Gerrard he loses the dressing room. It's not an easy one

 

[gkmacca]

Pragmatically I think Rodgers needs to tie Gerrard to him, in the short term. Gerrard has a track record of implicitly washing his hands of managers whilst continuing to play for them. He did it under Houllier, under Benitez and now, it seems, under Rodgers. He mutters about the (rest of the) team being too soft, whilst not acknowledging that the captain of said team might actually have some responsibility for that. He also goes through a range of shoulder shrugs and head shakes for the benefit of his mates in the media whilst contributing sod all in terms of a constructive response. He talks about problems 'as a fan' as if he's stuck at home watching it all unravel on the telly. It's time he grew up. It's time he stood by the side of his manager to help get the team out of this mess. Rodgers should get him to sit next to him at the odd press conference, give him a voice to speak about the team, so that he realises that his head is on the line as well as the manager. This reserved, snidey, strolling, sulk that he slips into at such times needs to stop.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Gerrard isn't on form, but he's still one of the most likely people in the squad to actually help turn the team around. He's the best(fit) goalscorer, with only Sterling coming close.

I'm not sure those wishing, that not only should he be dropped, that he would leave be let go, realise that that will leave us with close to zero midfielders who actually make things happen. We'd be left with a crocked Sturridge, an very young Sterling, and the underperforming(and yet to totally convince) Henderson and Coutinho. The rest are great at keeping the ball moving, but not so good at actually making us score goals. Or at least, they've yet to show they can do much more.

I'd love if we had players that could do as much as him come in, as he does have faults and he's not on form. Unfortunately he's still miles ahead of most of the rest of the squad. The likes of Allen, Henderson(maybe harsh, he has a few assists), Coutinho, Lucas, Can, Lallana, have contributed next to nothing this season, and don't look to have the mentality to bring us out of this form.

Granted, our lack of strikers doesn't help them much, but we should still expect more from at least some of them.

Basically everyone is underperforming and Rodgers doesn't seem to know what to do. I'd trust Gerrard, the one proven in this regard, to be the one to help drag us back into form. Once we have everyone playing at some level again, or someone in the squad decides to become a leader, then we could look at other options.

 

[gkmacca]

I think you're arguing with at best a tiny minority. Few want him gone. Many want him to show that he's still as good as you think he is. Did you see his stats yesterday? You can't just brush that aside. He's supposed to be the leader on the pitch!

 

[Silver Sean]

Yes. And he's a bit scary as a presence as far as the manager is concerned. I doubt he realises it, because he's always been a bit insular, but he is. The problem, for managers, is that he turns so quickly from pro to con. I remember when he was interviewed a few years ago and he said of Rafa something like, 'This man is a genius, the club needs to do all it can to keep him here for decades'. A few months later he was doing his classic head shake routine for the benefit of the cameras. Then last season he was saying how lucky the club was to have Rodgers and how they should tie him to the club for years and years. This season....the on-camera head shake looks like it's on its way. It's unfortunate in some ways that he IS captain. It makes controlling him much more difficult politically and publicly. Kenny never was captain and both Paisley and Fagan could rest him without any real discussion (and Kenny had the good grace and selflessness to accept it as good for the team at the time). With Gerrard any move, no matter how slight, to question his inviolable right to be at the centre of things is immediately deemed contentious. In cold hard logical terms we need a new captain and Gerrard needs, at best, a spell on the bench. But the legend aspect will make this very messy.

The difference during Kenny's playing days was that no club or manager or player was under scrutiny 24 hours a day to fill bullshit columns and TV channels. It doesn't matter what anyone does in top league football these days, the spotlight is on every single decision. As in all walks of life we have lost that large grey area where discussion and rational debate took place. Everything is stark, black-or-white, histrionic shouting.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think you're arguing with at best a tiny minority. Few want him gone. Many want him to show that he's still as good as you think he is. Did you see his stats yesterday? You can't just brush that aside. He's supposed to be the leader on the pitch!

Maybe so for the first part. I've seen a few mention it though, it needed to be addressed.

He's not performing well, and it's not good enough that he isn't. But, I don't think the answer is to play other players who aren't play well, and have never shown they are capable to playing to his level. If we had better players, then I'd definitely be all for it.

I think we need to get him to show how good a player he is.That doesn't mean he should be running all over the pitch, trying to do everything, it means we reduce his role to give him every chance of helping us win games, and make sure he trusts everyone else to do their jobs. Put him further up the pitch, get his energy focused in the right area of the pitch, and use that energy to encourage everyone else.

 

[Best Believe It]

Bascombe has an article today where even he says we shouldn't be playing Gerrard in the holding role. The only way it's going to work with him in that position is if we can utterly dominate games and all he needs to do is pick the ball up when the opposition clear their lines and spray it about. Trouble is, we have currently two options for that position - in Gerrard, a DM who can't defend, and Lucas who offers nowt going forward.

I'd still play Lucas though.

 

[davud graham]

At the moment when we have possession and the opposing team has everyone behind the ball ( as most teams do against us) Gerrard picks up the ball around the half way line and then tries to create chances with longer balls over the top or wide to the flanks which is very hard to do consistently, especially when you don't have Suarez and Sturridge to pick out. If lucas played then he would be in the same position and could play it to Gerrard who could be a further 15 to 20 yards up the pitch and any pass he plays from there would have more chance of succeeding. Lucas did this quite well against Real Madrid but we didn't have anyone with Gerrards passing ability for him to play it to. Playing further up the pitch may also allow Gerrard to get more crosses in as well as he's by far the best crosser of a ball that we have.

 

[gkmacca]

Maybe so for the first part. I've seen a few mention it though, it needed to be addressed.

He's not performing well, and it's not good enough that he isn't. But, I don't think the answer is to play other players who aren't play well, and have never shown they are capable to playing to his level. If we had better players, then I'd definitely be all for it.
.

Agreed. But let's not forget that Gerrard got his break in the team because supposedly 'better' and much more experienced players were under-performing. He came in very raw, undisciplined and unpredictable but his promise was enough to make it work. Today, if he changes his attitude, shows some leadership and really puts in some proper performances, all well and good, but if we're going to lose with him looking ineffectual and miserable then I'd rather we lost with Can or even Rossiter in his place because at least then there'd be the vague feeling the players were evolving. I don't want Gerrard either sulking or scoring the odd free kick and doing his number pointing 'Stevie Me' routine. He needs to help the team, not merely observe it grumpily on the pitch.