Gary Lineker and MOTD

[LeTallecWiz]

Personally speaking the increase in aggressive, provocative language from the government regarding migrants on boats (a tiny, trifling number), does certainly echo early 30s rhetoric. Maybe not tail end of the 30s yet, but why ignore it in case it does get there?

We've already had protests outside hotels and assaults.

I'm trying to find out what Gary said - I just went through his Twitter and couldn't find anything (mind you, I'm not a Twitter user so I may be missing something?) but though I'm sure language can be compared globally - if the issue is migrants/asylum seekers (and again, I'm only going off your post, as I can't find his to even see what all the fuss is about!), you do realize the simple reason why the comparison with Nazi Germany's language doesn't really work?

 

[Red Bird]

It’s the use of inflammatory, bigoted language to create divisions. As Lineker said, the UK is down the list of countries dealing by with huge influxes of refugees and asylum-seekers. Far, far down.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I mean the comparison is wrong - not because the words aren't the same (or the goal isn't?) but there's a difference in who the British govt is targeting, and who the Germans were ... That being said, govts are brilliant worldwide with this language against 'the' other ... Have they started using 'traitors' for people who disagree with the govt position on this? That's the next step. It's so bloody depressing.

 

[tomasjj]

divisive de-humanising language, of course not all the same, but similar as the 30's
squiggles nailed it earlier in the thread I think

 

[LeTallecWiz]

divisive de-humanising language, of course not all the same, but similar as the 30's
squiggles nailed it earlier in the thread I think

Yes, but there's a difference between migrants/asylum seekers and your own citizens, and those who had a few years ago fought in your last war as loyal Germans ... If everything is "1930s Germany" (and that term is used often around world), we're in for a proper shitstorm aren't we?

 

[tomasjj]

Yes, but there's a difference between migrants/asylum seekers and your own citizens, and those who had a few years ago fought in your last war as loyal Germans ... If everything is "1930s Germany" (and that term is used often around world), we're in for a proper shitstorm aren't we?

I see your point. For me though, it is the way they talk about other humans, regardless of citizens or not.And I think that nation way of thinking is quite a thing of the past anyway.
It has no comparision to the Holocoast obviously, even though that minister of home affairs instantly jumped there,, but the rhetoroic is the same as the 30's, and other places and times.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I see your point. For me though, it is the way they talk about other humans, regardless of citizens or not.
And I think that nation way of thinking is quite a thing of the past anyway.

I dunno - that's an interesting discussion of how people view 'their' country/nation/people etc and how that relates to 'the other'. Heck, there's been very interesting discussions about this within Ukraine (Ukrainian vs Russian nationality etc).

Regardless, we're very tribal (humans that is) and this is unfortunately part and parcel of it. I'm not sure how we can change, when it's such an easy way to gain power and influence, but we're just heading down a dark fucking alley - it seems in every country nowadays - and it's beyond depressing. It's not like Liverpool have made it any easier either.

 

[Athens]

It’s an interesting point - I first came across it in Noron Iron - the so called “super-prod”, ie a Protestant with an “Irish sounding” name - so they needed to prove themselves or “fit in” by being extreme.

Check out a guy called Lenny Murphy - ringleader of the “Shankhill Butchers”.

You get the feeling that Braverman and all have to act more extreme so as the, lets’s be honest, racists in their party can stomach them and they can progress through the ranks.

Plenty of issues over the years you had to be extreme on in the Labour Party to progress too.

An uncle of mine is buried in Roselawn cemetery near Basher Bates, I remember seeing Basher's grave at the funeral. The funny thing is that the grave right next to his was the grave of some republican and that headstone is covered in Irish flags...

 

[tomasjj]

The tribal element will remain, but it doesn't have to be aligned according to race, ethnicity etc. or nation, as in the past. Even multiculturalism is an outdated term really, as you don't really have multiple cultures anymore either in countries like the UK, it is much more mixed up and fragmented and hybrid. All kinds of constellations, and they find their tribe across the old categories, which is of course interesting socially.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

It's never really a smart thing to compare anything to Nazi Germany, whatever point you were trying to make ends up being lost in a discussion on whether it's a fair comparison or not(99% of the time it's not). He'd have been better off ending it at "vulnerable people"

 

[Beamrider]

A woman rang Lewis Goodall's LBC show on Friday and repeated what Braverman had said in her speech unveiling the bill, verbatim from the official record, but changing the word "migrant" to "Jew" on each occasion it cropped up. It sounded exactly like something that would have been said in 1930s Germany and proved Lineker's point perfectly.

 

[StevieM]

I mean the comparison is wrong - not because the words aren't the same (or the goal isn't?) but there's a difference in who the British govt is targeting, and who the Germans were ... That being said, govts are brilliant worldwide with this language against 'the' other ... Have they started using 'traitors' for people who disagree with the govt position on this? That's the next step. It's so bloody depressing.

The Bill will likely fail, either in the Commons, Lords and/or courts.

The Tory play book will move to blaming all those who oppose them for now allowing the “will of the people” to pass - there’ll be articles in the Mail about “enemies of the people”, “saboteurs”, calls for the House of Lords to have reduced powers, claims that we need to pull out of “lefty things” like the European Convention of Human Rights.

I means, it’s all already happening - if anyone in the UK isn’t worried about a Bill of Rights written by this group of Tory’s, then you need to have a word with yourself.

The next thing you’ll likely start seeing is people claiming they’re not racist, they’re just “culturalist” and we shouldn’t take refugees because they don’t “blend in to out culture”… it’s not about skin colour, you see, no no no.

For the Tory’s it emboldens the UKIPPY types to wear their racism with pride (that’s one’s straight from the Steve Bannon playbook - and this is all starting to sound like drivel from that clown in the US). This is their chance to “shine”.

For the not-quite-UKIPPY Tories, this sort of culture war, us and them, “we’re the only ones who you can trust to fix this” is just pure opportunism and about the only thing they reckon they reckon Starmer can’t look stronger on.

Trouble is, they’ve had 13 years to fix it - so “fixing it” isn’t the intention.

 

[Farkmaster]

It's never really a smart thing to compare anything to Nazi Germany, whatever point you were trying to make ends up being lost in a discussion on whether it's a fair comparison or not(99% of the time it's not). He'd have been better off ending it at "vulnerable people"

It seems to have worked unbelievably well, in this case, surely?

 

[Beamrider]

The Bill will likely fail, either in the Commons, Lords and/or courts.

The Tory play book will move to blaming all those who oppose them for now allowing the “will of the people” to pass - there’ll be articles in the Mail about “enemies of the people”, “saboteurs”, calls for the House of Lords to have reduced powers, claims that we need to pull out of “lefty things” like the European Convention of Human Rights.

I means, it’s all already happening - if anyone in the UK isn’t worried about a Bill of Rights written by this group of Tory’s, then you need to have a word with yourself.

The next thing you’ll likely start seeing is people claiming they’re not racist, they’re just “culturalist” and we shouldn’t take refugees because they don’t “blend in to out culture”… it’s not about skin colour, you see, no no no.

For the Tory’s it emboldens the UKIPPY types to wear their racism with pride (that’s one’s straight from the Steve Bannon playbook - and this is all starting to sound like drivel from that clown in the US). This is their chance to “shine”.

For the not-quite-UKIPPY Tories, this sort of culture war, us and them, “we’re the only ones who you can trust to fix this” is just pure opportunism and about the only thing they reckon they reckon Starmer can’t look stronger on.

Trouble is, they’ve had 13 years to fix it - so “fixing it” isn’t the intention.

100% this. Worst thing for me is that I don’t think Sunak is as much of a cunt as Braverman, but he needed her support to get the top job and now she has him under her control like a puppet on a string. Let that sink in, the actual Prime Minister is in hock to the intellectual titan that is Suella Fucking Braverman.

 

[StevieM]

100% this. Worst thing for me is that I don’t think Sunak is as much of a cunt as Braverman, but he needed her support to get the top job and now she has him under her control like a puppet on a string. Let that sink in, the actual Prime Minister is in hock to the intellectual titan that is Suella Fucking Braverman.

The fact that Pritti Patel thinks the bill has problems and goes too far should tell you everything you need to know about it.

If you ever want an insight into exactly how “switched on” Braverman is, there’s a clip of her getting asked at a Select Committee about what the “safe route alternatives” are for a refugee trying to get to the UK from any undefined African country.

The answer is - there isn’t any and the only way for that refugee to claim asylum in the UK is to enter the UK “illegally”.

Listening to her wiggling on the hook as she struggles to answer, before deferring to someone in her Dept to try and save her arse from total humiliation is at least amusing.

I’ll give Sunak one bit of credit, his involvement of the King in his Windsor Protocol (even the naming of it) was a master stroke for outwitting the, albeit witless, DUP & ERG and forcing Boris to keep his mouth shut for a change.

That’s another story though, but yeah, Sunak is walking a tightrope trying to appease the loony right - he’ll have to sack one of them soon and the cracks will just get amplified.

I know Starmer gets a bad rap - but he really does just have to look competent and give the Tories and the loony right press no easy lines of attack and Labour will likely get a decent majority at the next election.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

A woman rang Lewis Goodall's LBC show on Friday and repeated what Braverman had said in her speech unveiling the bill, verbatim from the official record, but changing the word "migrant" to "Jew" on each occasion it cropped up. It sounded exactly like something that would have been said in 1930s Germany and proved Lineker's point perfectly.

It still cracks me up that the irony is missed that Suella’s bloody asian, who’re immigrants themselves to the UK. Has she conveniently lost the plot just cos she’s got an Oxbridge degree that’s made her all posh and silly ?

 

[tomasjj]

It's never really a smart thing to compare anything to Nazi Germany, whatever point you were trying to make ends up being lost in a discussion on whether it's a fair comparison or not(99% of the time it's not). He'd have been better off ending it at "vulnerable people"

I agree with your point that it will derail any discussion. His point still stands though.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

A woman rang Lewis Goodall's LBC show on Friday and repeated what Braverman had said in her speech unveiling the bill, verbatim from the official record, but changing the word "migrant" to "Jew" on each occasion it cropped up. It sounded exactly like something that would have been said in 1930s Germany and proved Lineker's point perfectly.

I can't remember where I saw this, but some (really bored) dude basically did this for a ton of speeches in the US (where the subject ranged from weather to these kind of speeches) and switched the subject to African American - and well, it basically all sounded like "1930s Germany" (he didn't use that term). I just wonder if our tribalism today is as bad as it was back then, because of it this, we're entering a dark dark tunnel.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

That’s another story though, but yeah, Sunak is walking a tightrope trying to appease the loony right

I don't know the players well enough, but I see this is as the norm soon in global politics, regardless if it's left or right (but far far more visible on the right).

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

How’re the protests going in Israel ?

 

[StevieM]

I don't know the players well enough, but I see this is as the norm soon in global politics, regardless if it's left or right (but far far more visible on the right).

It is, because the right have managed to successfully corner most of the key print & television media across the world, while simultaneously making right wingers believ its all left leaning.

We’re back to that type of world where whoever shouts & moans the loudest ens the argument and truth or accountability are irrelevant.

That’s how you win elections - you whip your rabid vocal minority up the most, while the “silent majority” disengage or enough of them fall for it.

Just calling someone “lefty” enough times is enough ruin someone in the UK.

Sunak referred to Starmer as a “lefty lawyer” blocking the Government from doing what the people of the UK want them to do a stop ALL refugees entering the UK - I mean that’s what they (the Tories) want, after all.

I think Sunak effectively said that he wanted to stop all refugees entering the UK so that the Uk could start to show its compassion again.

And today the airwaves are full, again, if people blaming refugees (well, they don’t generally differentiate migrants and refugees), for the fact that they can’t get a Doctors appointment or their kids can’t afford to buy a house.

I mean - it couldn’t possibly be the Government that’s been in charge for 13 years chronically underfunding public services like the NHS and stagnating public service pay or building duck all affordable houses.

Apparently it’s the migrants. Amusing all the penthouses to be built and nicking their GP appointments or something.

I note that the Tories complained there was no money in the coffers for public sector pay increases - yet within minutes they were assuring everyone there’s be money available for SVB - no doubt in case any of their mates lost any money investing it startups than went tits up because of it.

Calling them nazis feels almost being generous.

Within a year they’ll be wanting to build a massive “refugee processing facility” where all “processed” are “sent to Rwanda” to live happily ever after without ever being heard of again.

 

[rubans]

It is, because the right have managed to successfully corner most of the key print & television media across the world, while simultaneously making right wingers believ its all left leaning.

We’re back to that type of world where whoever shouts & moans the loudest ens the argument and truth or accountability are irrelevant.

That’s how you win elections - you whip your rabid vocal minority up the most, while the “silent majority” disengage or enough of them fall for it.

Just calling someone “lefty” enough times is enough ruin someone in the UK.

Sunak referred to Starmer as a “lefty lawyer” blocking the Government from doing what the people of the UK want them to do a stop ALL refugees entering the UK - I mean that’s what they (the Tories) want, after all.

I think Sunak effectively said that he wanted to stop all refugees entering the UK so that the Uk could start to show its compassion again.

And today the airwaves are full, again, if people blaming refugees (well, they don’t generally differentiate migrants and refugees), for the fact that they can’t get a Doctors appointment or their kids can’t afford to buy a house.

I mean - it couldn’t possibly be the Government that’s been in charge for 13 years chronically underfunding public services like the NHS and stagnating public service pay or building duck all affordable houses.

Apparently it’s the migrants. Amusing all the penthouses to be built and nicking their GP appointments or something.

I note that the Tories complained there was no money in the coffers for public sector pay increases - yet within minutes they were assuring everyone there’s be money available for SVB - no doubt in case any of their mates lost any money investing it startups than went tits up because of it.

Calling them nazis feels almost being generous.

Within a year they’ll be wanting to build a massive “refugee processing facility” where all “processed” are “sent to Rwanda” to live happily ever after without ever being heard of again.

It defo feels like the future, a bit like some of ths stuff from Xmen - Children of the Atom story lines. Maybe I over egged the mutants in those scenario being replaced with migrants but the fact they got so far with Rwanda plan (guess May set the prescedence with Wind Rush) is scary despite the fact they have never been able to board a single person on it.

 

[Brizzle]

Haven't read through this thread yet but I think there is a beautiful outcome to come from this episode around MOTD. The tories have a vibrant base of working class supporters (who can generally be well labelled as the turkeys who vote for christmas - supporting a bunch of policies that are to their detriment, but usually as a trade off to hating immigrants and loving brexit). The Tories now seem to be launching a full assault on football fans (via this MOTD campaign) which I think is going to hit them much harder in the polls than anyone would predict.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

It is, because the right have managed to successfully corner most of the key print & television media across the world

Just calling someone “lefty” enough times is enough ruin someone in the UK.

Calling them nazis feels almost being generous.

1 - Do you really believe this? I don't really know how to check it but I think media is still very much tribal, and people just watch what suits their world view more. I used to make a point - I'm starting to detach more and more (very jaded) - of reading as many different sources (from different povs) to try and get a balanced view, but that was back in the day when there weren't as many options.

2 - Anyone who doesn't agree with a centrist/right govt is a lefty (or traitor) ... you get other words when it's a left wing govt, but that hasn't happened here so I don't know if it's just different than the regular words.

3 - I try not to use the term. It's used too frequently - and in light of how denial of their atrocities is also gaining much traction - I try to just limit it to when I discuss the people who killed my family for our 'crimes'.

 

[StevieM]

1 - Do you really believe this? I don't really know how to check it but I think media is still very much tribal, and people just watch what suits their world view more. I used to make a point - I'm starting to detach more and more (very jaded) - of reading as many different sources (from different povs) to try and get a balanced view, but that was back in the day when there weren't as many options.

2 - Anyone who doesn't agree with a centrist/right govt is a lefty (or traitor) ... you get other words when it's a left wing govt, but that hasn't happened here so I don't know if it's just different than the regular words.

3 - I try not to use the term. It's used too frequently - and in light of how denial of their atrocities is also gaining much traction - I try to just limit it to when I discuss the people who killed my family for our 'crimes'.

Well, in the UK, The Daily Mail is the biggest daily newspaper - I’ll let you delve into their politics, history, current and past editorial stance and ownership - and that’s before we get on to Murdoch press.

They specialise in whipping up anger at anything - immigrants, single mothers, Muslims, benefit seekers, union members, video nasties… whatever. They’re gaslight specialists for the elderly support base of the Conservatives.

Just look at Trump’s last speech for an example of “you’re either with me or against me” - that’s Anakin falling to the far side nonsense.

The last bit about “Nazis” is me being a bit flippant - but the thing that keeps getting repeated of late is - it doesn’t start with gas chambers, it starts with much more subtle things - but the last 5 years feels like a ramping up of populism and dangerous rhetoric without the usual restraint or consequences.

Brexit has broken Britain - this is the aftermath before an even worse state of affairs.

 

[MomoWASright]

Lineker is back without making an apology. The BBC has apologised and will review its guidelines.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Well, in the UK, The Daily Mail is the biggest daily newspaper - I’ll let you delve into their politics, history, current and past editorial stance and ownership - and that’s before we get on to Murdoch press.

They specialise in whipping up anger at anything - immigrants, single mothers, Muslims, benefit seekers, union members, video nasties… whatever. They’re gaslight specialists for the elderly support base of the Conservatives.

Just look at Trump’s last speech for an example of “you’re either with me or against me” - that’s Anakin falling to the far side nonsense.

The last bit about “Nazis” is me being a bit flippant - but the thing that keeps getting repeated of late is - it doesn’t start with gas chambers, it starts with much more subtle things - but the last 5 years feels like a ramping up of populism and dangerous rhetoric without the usual restraint or consequences.

Brexit has broken Britain - this is the aftermath before an even worse state of affairs.

Daily Mail's reputation etc I learned from private discussions with Single (as I just don't know the political leanings of UK newspapers bar the Guardian, which I only read when my friend wrote for them every few days).

Trump's speech seems like the 'reality' of politics going forward - social media politics.

 

[StevieM]

Daily Mail's reputation etc I learned from private discussions with Single (as I just don't know the political leanings of UK newspapers bar the Guardian, which I only read when my friend wrote for them every few days).

Trump's speech seems like the 'reality' of politics going forward - social media politics.

Social Media Politics is an interesting phrase - seems about right - and scary.

 

[binomial]

Lineker is back without making an apology. The BBC has apologised and will review its guidelines.

Phew!

Was starting to get worried.....you know, with how long it took and stuff.