Fabinho leaving?

[Glen C]

Some would say a players prime us 27-30.

He’s got a good 2/3 years left at the very top.
Like most of the squad he was fucked last year.
We are not going to get anywhere near the required level needed in a replacement for 40m.
It’s like everyone is playing championship manager. We’ve essential shipped out the majority of our CM and cover in one window. Madness.

Nah I find, in general, Brazilians begin to decline earlier than the average. They peak earlier too. There are a few exceptions but nah he's on the decline big time and will just keep getting worse. He only improved when trent moved in there helping him do the work he used to be able to do on his own. He's finished.

 

[StevieM]

Nah I find, in general, Brazilians begin to decline earlier than the average. They peak earlier too. There are a few exceptions but nah he's on the decline big time and will just keep getting worse. He only improved when trent moved in there helping him do the work he used to be able to do on his own. He's finished.

There’s a very strong argument that the failure of the forward players to execute the press left Fabinho exposed and in a position no-one could have effectively covered on their own.

 

[Red Bird]

Teams evolve and if’n we don’t, we’ll be in the wilderness again. He’s past his peak, Stevie and should be allowed to go. As is Henderson, by the way. Blaming others— the forwards, Alexander Arnold etc. is just messing about with fringes around the edges. The signs were there by the end of the season before last but we failed to heed them. We’d be fools to wait for him to start clicking after the turn of the year when the season is busted, again.

 

[StevieM]

Teams evolve and if’n we don’t, we’ll be in the wilderness again. He’s past his peak, Stevie and should be allowed to go. As is Henderson, by the way. Blaming others— the forwards, Alexander Arnold etc. is just messing about with fringes around the edges. The signs were there by the end of the season before last but we failed to heed them. We’d be fools to wait for him to start clicking after the turn of the year when the season is busted, again.

Most of that’s fair - but if we’re rebuilding our entire midfield in one hit - there’s a risk of going backwards - evolution would be a managed change - which this is clearly not.

 

[Hansern]

Nah I find, in general, Brazilians begin to decline earlier than the average. They peak earlier too. There are a few exceptions but nah he's on the decline big time and will just keep getting worse. He only improved when trent moved in there helping him do the work he used to be able to do on his own. He's finished.

Is that true though? In general? Fabinho is on the decline but dont think they in general decline earlier than anyone else.

 

[Halmeister]

Is that true though? In general? Fabinho is on the decline but dont think they in general decline earlier than anyone else.

A lot of the big names have. Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (injuries), Robinho, Denilson, Adriano...

It's probably a bit of a common misconception, though. Look at Thiago Silva, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Dani Alves etc.

Probably easier to find Brazilians that play well into their 30s

 

[keniget]

A lot of the big names have. Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (injuries), Robinho, Denilson, Adriano...

It's probably a bit of a common misconception, though. Look at Thiago Silva, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Dani Alves etc.

Probably easier to find Brazilians that play well into their 30s

Maybe it's a case of attacking stars vs defensive players?

Which great Brazilian attackers have managed to keep their level into the late 20s and early 30s in recent years?

I can only think of Neymar (putting aside the constant injuries).

Even our very own Firmino's (if you want to class him as great) legs went a few years ago and struggled to sustain his form when played regularly.

 

[dee]

With all these big names going to Saudi, will there be interest to buy the tv rights in Europe? Seems there is a bit of a move to being fans of players over teams.

Who will make up the squads around the bigger names? Local Arabic players or ….?

 

[keniget]

Who will make up the squads around the bigger names? Local Arabic players or ….?

Or... what you thinking? What are other options are there?

 

[dee]

Oh and I’ve just seen that Al-Nasser have offered Bayern €30m for Sadio Mané. Given Tuchel’s very public stance that he’s not good enough I guess Sadio will be joining Ronaldo soon

 

[dee]

Or... what you thinking? What are other options are there?

European ‘Championship’ level players? Other Middle Eastern, Indian, Indonesian players? I haven’t paid any attention to Saudi football previously so don’t know.

Just seems a bit of a mismatch if you have Karin Benzema up against local talent

 

[Glen C]

Maybe it's a case of attacking stars vs defensive players?

Which great Brazilian attackers have managed to keep their level into the late 20s and early 30s in recent years?

I can only think of Neymar (putting aside the constant injuries).

Even our very own Firmino's (if you want to class him as great) legs went a few years ago and struggled to sustain his form when played regularly.

Yeah when I think about it deeply its more Brazilian attacking players I'm thinking about. I remember Kaka took a serious nosedive.

 

[Mystic]

European ‘Championship’ level players? Other Middle Eastern, Indian, Indonesian players? I haven’t paid any attention to Saudi football previously so don’t know.

Just seems a bit of a mismatch if you have Karin Benzema up against local talent

They'll probably import some poor sods on the kafala system.

 

[Red Bird]

Is that true though? In general? Fabinho is on the decline but dont think they in general decline earlier than anyone else.

True, it’s no longer evolution but I doubt that it will be any worse for us with this instant adjustment either.

 

[Frogfish]

True, it’s no longer evolution but I doubt that it will be any worse for us with this instant adjustment either.

That’s pretty much how I feel too. We could end up with an amazing, young, midfield (adding say Lavia and another youngster LFC may have on their radar) - they’ll take a year to gel but be exactly want we needed by next season. It could be worth the wait (though these things rarely go to plan) 🙁

Hendo needs to go now (unless he can get back to 2021/22 form but at 33 I think he’s past recovery).
Fabinho absolutely could return to form, last season likely to have been a hiccup. So Lavia + Fabs would be the preference but if he goes now I would still feel that’s ok as far as the long term midfield rejuvenation goes.

 

[peekay]

The more I think of this, the more I feel this is a bad idea. It's true that we're unlikely to receive this sort of money for Fabinho again, but it's also true I think that we're not going to be able to replace him.

Firstly, I think you need to appreciate the significant gap in importance between Henderson and Fabinho. Prime Henderson was a good player, but statistically very replaceable. Prime Fabinho was a top 3 DM in Europe - that's a rare and elite talent, who isn't easily replaced. Add to that the fact that Henderson is 33, and Fabinho is 30, it is clear whose loss we'll feel more.

I think it is probably right to say that the days of Fabinho playing single pivot are over, but it'd be stupid to ignore the importance of his positioning, defensive coverage as a 6 in the double pivot. He still reads and understands the game at a very high level, and that's simply not available in the market readily. At any given point, there are rarely more than 5-6 elite DMs in the world. Fabinho was one of them, and still offers stability to the spine of Alisson-VVD-Fabinho. I simply don't think we win anything without that spine.

The calibre of player we'd need to replace Fabinho simply won't be available to us - I'm talking Caicedo and Tchouameni. What are the odds we sign them?

It's good to start thinking about transitioning to a new era, but abandoning the idea of actually winning anything quickly isn't a smart idea. Klopp is here for just 3 more seasons. I don't want those years to be like from 2015-2018 where we won nothing. The likes of Lavia or Bajcetic are simply too young, and won't be any better than the likes of Can or Joe Allen we had at that time. Very few teams in PL history have won anything without a great GK-CB-DM axis.

But we do not have a prime Fabinho anymore, do we. I do agree with the point @StevieM makes that if the forward press starts working, then Fabinho would look a lot better. And he did in the last 10 games. But you cant ignore the fact that, any PL midfielder and attacker can just knock the ball and run past him and there is no way Fabinho is catching them. Which happened a couple of times in the Southampton game.

Even with giving him the benefit of doubt that last season was a bit too much after the quadruple season, Fabinho's deterioration was a bit unacceptable. Everyone looked a bit tired but Fabinho looked goosed. I remember some of us commenting if Fabinho has aged 30 years over the summer.

Ideally, we have players like Fabinho as senior figures and gently transition. But we missed the boat on that one. So the option in front of us is keep Fabinho and for Klopp to develop tactics which hides his weakness. Note that his physicality could be even more diminished in the coming seasons.

Or have a transition season and use it to mould players like Lavia, Andre into a new team with a hope of a title challenge in 2025-2026 season. Given our situation, 40 million in transfer fees plus 10 million in wages savings per year for the next three years is huge.

I feel like option 1 is less risky but there will always be a ceiling on what we can achieve. With option 2, there is more risk, but there is a possibility of Klopp developing the next great team.

 

[Buddha]

This looks like it’ll be wrapped up soon (though I imagine we’ll look to have an offer accepted elsewhere before we announce)…

 

[Modo]

This looks like it’ll be wrapped up soon (though I imagine we’ll look to have an offer accepted elsewhere before we announce)…

Klopp wouldn't have left him out if it wasn't already done.

 

[mom]

Yeh this seems done and dusted. Good deal for us, as long as his replacement is right for us.

 

[Fabio]

I pray we'll just announce something stupidly quick for the replacement

 

[rubans]

Why are Al Ettihad discussing installments and payment terms?, we know you have the money so pay if all now in one cnts.

 

[Red Bird]

They know the time value of money, too, I’d like to think.

 

[rubans]

I doubt it, not by the way they are spending on shite has been footballers.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

But it really isn’t about being competitive with teams from the top European leagues is it?
Right now the league wants buzz, visibility, investment, buy in, etc. who cares if the players are not capable of running hard for a full 90? That’s not what they will be asked to do anyway. All of them will still be able to pay slower paced attractive football.
This is about making a splash and building from there. So to think that they are stupid for buying older players doesn’t really track.

 

[LarryHagman]

I'm beginning to wonder if our plan has gone awry.

Keita, Ox, Milner, Hendo, Fabinho, maybe Thiago. I know we needed a turnover but that's drastic.

It looks like we didn't expect to lose Hendo and Fabinho but we either can't turn down the offer or keep the other.

Klopp said he wanted new players in place by pre-season, that ain't happening.

I think we'll end up going into the new season light and struggling. And then playing catch-up.

 

[rubans]

But it really isn’t about being competitive with teams from the top European leagues is it?
Right now the league wants buzz, visibility, investment, buy in, etc. who cares if the players are not capable of running hard for a full 90? That’s not what they will be asked to do anyway. All of them will still be able to pay slower paced attractive football.
This is about making a splash and building from there. So to think that they are stupid for buying older players doesn’t really track.

I don’t believe it’s stupid but it’s a case of throwing as much money as possible.
They paid 50yr old golfer 200m to play for a new made up organisation so this is just an extension 3yrs on. There is a logic to it but if it the thinking behind the league was driven by sensible then there would have been better ways of going about it.
They have the money, so if they want Fabinho then pay up front. All it shows is our current desperation for sale while in pre-season again with any real planning our side.

 

[keniget]

I'm beginning to wonder if our plan has gone awry.

Keita, Ox, Milner, Hendo, Fabinho, maybe Thiago. I know we needed a turnover but that's drastic.

It looks like we didn't expect to lose Hendo and Fabinho but we either can't turn down the offer or keep the other.

Klopp said he wanted new players in place by pre-season, that ain't happening.

I think we'll end up going into the new season light and struggling. And then playing catch-up.

I know it's a case of cutting your nose off to spite your face but I can't help but think "good, serves them right".

Hopefully we can fluke a winning formula somehow.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I'm beginning to wonder if our plan has gone awry.

Keita, Ox, Milner, Hendo, Fabinho, maybe Thiago. I know we needed a turnover but that's drastic.

It looks like we didn't expect to lose Hendo and Fabinho but we either can't turn down the offer or keep the other.

Klopp said he wanted new players in place by pre-season, that ain't happening.

I think we'll end up going into the new season light and struggling. And then playing catch-up.

I think this upcoming season will be transitional. Can see us finishing outside top 4 again but revamping the squad for another half decade of challenging at the top.

If we can execute the transition well, I'm okay with sacrificing this season. Better than hanging around 4th but with little prospect of slingshotting to the top, imo.

 

[LarryHagman]

Is Klopp going to stay for a 2 or 3 season rebuild though? I'd obvs trust him with it BUT does he want to do it? He wants the Germany job, when is he going to move?

 

[binomial]

when is he going to move?

Don't wanna think about it tbh, Larry.