Spot on. Gotta admire them.
Euro QF Germany vs Greece
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Spot on. Gotta admire them.
RAYCESS, nah jk I see it too
T
the_khl
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England v Germany really could be a tasty cracker.
A little.
Bring on zee Inglesh
Was the Furhrer a renowned nose-picker/eater also ?
Harsh pen
Germany with front 4 of Gomes-Müller-Podolski-Özil - a bit slow and predictable, but clinical
Germany with front 4 of Klose-Reus-Schurrle-Özil - quick short passing game, but looks a bit raw, they tried to play too cute at times and wasted many good chances.
I like today's Germany better in principle, but I'm not sure it's more effective. Maybe Löw can find a perfect balance between the two in the next game. They cannot waste chances like this against Italy (or England).
Schweinsteiger made an awful lot of silly mistakes today, very uncharacteristic.
Germany with front 4 of Klose-Reus-Schurrle-Özil - quick short passing game, but looks a bit raw, they tried to play too cute at times and wasted many good chances.
I like today's Germany better in principle, but I'm not sure it's more effective. Maybe Löw can find a perfect balance between the two in the next game. They cannot waste chances like this against Italy (or England).
Schweinsteiger made an awful lot of silly mistakes today, very uncharacteristic.
As English football looks to come to terms with another tournament failure, the head of Germany's Bundesliga has detailed how his country overhauled its failing youth football structures in the wake of Germany's "horrible" Euro 2000 performances.
Christian Seifert, the Bundesliga's chief executive, told Observer Sport how that failure, which followed a 3-0 quarter-final defeat by Croatia in the 1998 World Cup, forced a major rethink about the development of young players.
The new structure, implemented in 2002, has resulted in a resurgent German side - their youngest team ever, with an average age of 24.7 years. Last Sunday in South Africa they beat England 4-1, and Argentina 4-0 yesterday. They will go into Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine among the favourites.
Seifert said that the national team's stark improvement was a direct result of the overhaul of Germany's academy system, with all 36 clubs in the two Bundesliga divisions now obliged to operate centrally regulated academies before being given a licence to play in the league. Of the 23-man national squad now in South Africa, 19 came from Bundesliga academies, with the other four from Bundesliga 2 academies.
The most significant change, said Seifert, was insisting that in these new academies at least 12 players in each intake have to be eligible to play for Germany.
"That was the key difference," he said. "Fifa's 6+5 rule means only that players must have grown up in the club. For example, Cesc Fabregas was developed at Arsenal, but is Spanish. In Germany, our academies must have 12 in each group able to play for Germany."
Since that restructuring, the proportion of Germany-qualified players in the Bundesliga has changed significantly.
"In 2003-4 we had 44% from foreign countries," Seifert said. "Right now it is only 38%. So 62% are able to play for the national team." In England it is the other way around, with an approximate 60/40 split of foreigners and nationals.
Seifert emphasised that essential to the system's smooth operation was the unity between clubs and the German FA, achieved in part through the stipulation that no single entity can own more than 49% of a Bundesliga club.
"This way you don't have a foreign owner who doesn't really care for the national teams," said Seifert. "The clubs have a very strong relationship with the FA: we are all engaged in discussions [about youth development]."
That is in stark contrast to England, where infighting between the FA, the Premier League and the Football League resulted in the Professional Game Youth Development Group being disbanded last year after just a year of operation. Since then, no single body has been in control of youth development in England. Instead, the power has rested with Premier League clubs.
Seifert stated that the German system costs clubs "only euros 80m" of the Bundesliga's euros 2billion turnover. The German structure only takes boys into the academy system from the age of 12, with around 5,000 players going through the system at any one time.
English clubs currently spend more, around euros 95m per season, and put 10,000 boys aged between nine and 16 through a much-criticised structure designed by Howard Wilkinson in 1997. About 1% of boys who join an English academy aged nine become professional footballers.
England reached the European Under-21 Championships final last summer, but failed to qualify for seven of the previous 10 tournaments, and England's teams at senior and youth level have failed to win any major trophies since the academy system was established.
Speaking last week, former sports minister Richard Caborn called for radical change. "We can't just deal with the symptoms, we have to get to the root of the problem. English football and the Premier League have to come together to develop young English players."
Christian Seifert, the Bundesliga's chief executive, told Observer Sport how that failure, which followed a 3-0 quarter-final defeat by Croatia in the 1998 World Cup, forced a major rethink about the development of young players.
The new structure, implemented in 2002, has resulted in a resurgent German side - their youngest team ever, with an average age of 24.7 years. Last Sunday in South Africa they beat England 4-1, and Argentina 4-0 yesterday. They will go into Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine among the favourites.
Seifert said that the national team's stark improvement was a direct result of the overhaul of Germany's academy system, with all 36 clubs in the two Bundesliga divisions now obliged to operate centrally regulated academies before being given a licence to play in the league. Of the 23-man national squad now in South Africa, 19 came from Bundesliga academies, with the other four from Bundesliga 2 academies.
The most significant change, said Seifert, was insisting that in these new academies at least 12 players in each intake have to be eligible to play for Germany.
"That was the key difference," he said. "Fifa's 6+5 rule means only that players must have grown up in the club. For example, Cesc Fabregas was developed at Arsenal, but is Spanish. In Germany, our academies must have 12 in each group able to play for Germany."
Since that restructuring, the proportion of Germany-qualified players in the Bundesliga has changed significantly.
"In 2003-4 we had 44% from foreign countries," Seifert said. "Right now it is only 38%. So 62% are able to play for the national team." In England it is the other way around, with an approximate 60/40 split of foreigners and nationals.
Seifert emphasised that essential to the system's smooth operation was the unity between clubs and the German FA, achieved in part through the stipulation that no single entity can own more than 49% of a Bundesliga club.
"This way you don't have a foreign owner who doesn't really care for the national teams," said Seifert. "The clubs have a very strong relationship with the FA: we are all engaged in discussions [about youth development]."
That is in stark contrast to England, where infighting between the FA, the Premier League and the Football League resulted in the Professional Game Youth Development Group being disbanded last year after just a year of operation. Since then, no single body has been in control of youth development in England. Instead, the power has rested with Premier League clubs.
Seifert stated that the German system costs clubs "only euros 80m" of the Bundesliga's euros 2billion turnover. The German structure only takes boys into the academy system from the age of 12, with around 5,000 players going through the system at any one time.
English clubs currently spend more, around euros 95m per season, and put 10,000 boys aged between nine and 16 through a much-criticised structure designed by Howard Wilkinson in 1997. About 1% of boys who join an English academy aged nine become professional footballers.
England reached the European Under-21 Championships final last summer, but failed to qualify for seven of the previous 10 tournaments, and England's teams at senior and youth level have failed to win any major trophies since the academy system was established.
Speaking last week, former sports minister Richard Caborn called for radical change. "We can't just deal with the symptoms, we have to get to the root of the problem. English football and the Premier League have to come together to develop young English players."
It is 10.30am on Saturday, and already the plush purpose-built academy at Borussia Dortmund is a hive of activity.
Dozens of young scholars are arriving for training, a match or simply to follow their own carefully structured gym programme. They are greeted by a message inscribed in the corridor outside the changing rooms: "Dein vorbild kommt aus unserer mitte" (Your role model emerges among us). You can almost smell the collective ambition and enthusiasm.
It is a scene being repeated at each of the 36 Bundesliga clubs and represents a snapshot of an academy system that is underpinning the duel achievement of a flourishing domestic league and an outstanding national team.
As the latest contest between English and German football manifests itself on Tuesday night in Tottenham Hotspur's Champions Leaguematch against Werder Bremen, the lesson for England is that those two aims need not be mutually exclusive.
Overseeing the operation in Dortmund is Lars Ricken, who scored the winner at Old Trafford against Manchester United in the Champions League semi-final of 2007.
He promotes a 4-2-3-1 system from the under-nines to the under-23s; a formation that is mirrored by the German national team and the vast majority of clubs in the Bundesliga. "It encapsulates all the other systems that you can play," he says.
The support around the players is staggering. After the failure in the 2000 European Championships, Germany overhauled their academy system and have invested more than €500 million (£417 million) in youth football.
It is now a condition of entry to the Bundesliga that the clubs have academies with coaches qualified to the Uefa Pro-Licence level, dedicated pitches, massages rooms, doctors, physios and even a sauna and a jacuzzi. There are also guidelines to ensure a minimum of 12 German-qualified players in the age groups between under-16 and under-19.
What is happening in Dortmund and Werder Bremen – whose academy graduates against Tottenham tonight may include Tim Borowski, Aaron Hunt, Kevin Schindler, Dominik Schmidt and Philipp Bargfrede – was magnified on a larger scale by Germany at the World Cup.
"If you look at the World Cup team, many of them played in the Under-21 European Championship [which Germany won]," said Christian Seifert, the chief executive of the Bundesliga. "They started with the under-12s and under-13s. To be the national coach of Germany in 2014 is a great job."
The academies are just one element of the Bundesliga that stands out. Ownership rules preventing any investor from immediately purchasing a majority stake in a club would prohibit the sort of buy-outs at Liverpool,Manchester City, Chelsea, Manchester United and Portsmouth. Affordable wage ratios also ensure that, although the Bundesliga is behind the Premier League in generating revenue, its clubs are the most profitable in the world.
German stadiums are also collectively the most modern in Europe and attract the highest crowds (including vast areas for safe standing), while the restraint in spending allows ticket prices to remain low. The average Bundesliga ticket is 21 euros and children pay as little as five euros.
It has already made a big impression on Steve McClaren, the lone English manager in the Bundesliga, who is in charge of Wolfsburg.
"The beauty of the Bundesliga is any one of 10 teams can win it," he said. "The stadiums are magnificent and the atmosphere is fantastic."
Dozens of young scholars are arriving for training, a match or simply to follow their own carefully structured gym programme. They are greeted by a message inscribed in the corridor outside the changing rooms: "Dein vorbild kommt aus unserer mitte" (Your role model emerges among us). You can almost smell the collective ambition and enthusiasm.
It is a scene being repeated at each of the 36 Bundesliga clubs and represents a snapshot of an academy system that is underpinning the duel achievement of a flourishing domestic league and an outstanding national team.
As the latest contest between English and German football manifests itself on Tuesday night in Tottenham Hotspur's Champions Leaguematch against Werder Bremen, the lesson for England is that those two aims need not be mutually exclusive.
Overseeing the operation in Dortmund is Lars Ricken, who scored the winner at Old Trafford against Manchester United in the Champions League semi-final of 2007.
He promotes a 4-2-3-1 system from the under-nines to the under-23s; a formation that is mirrored by the German national team and the vast majority of clubs in the Bundesliga. "It encapsulates all the other systems that you can play," he says.
The support around the players is staggering. After the failure in the 2000 European Championships, Germany overhauled their academy system and have invested more than €500 million (£417 million) in youth football.
It is now a condition of entry to the Bundesliga that the clubs have academies with coaches qualified to the Uefa Pro-Licence level, dedicated pitches, massages rooms, doctors, physios and even a sauna and a jacuzzi. There are also guidelines to ensure a minimum of 12 German-qualified players in the age groups between under-16 and under-19.
What is happening in Dortmund and Werder Bremen – whose academy graduates against Tottenham tonight may include Tim Borowski, Aaron Hunt, Kevin Schindler, Dominik Schmidt and Philipp Bargfrede – was magnified on a larger scale by Germany at the World Cup.
"If you look at the World Cup team, many of them played in the Under-21 European Championship [which Germany won]," said Christian Seifert, the chief executive of the Bundesliga. "They started with the under-12s and under-13s. To be the national coach of Germany in 2014 is a great job."
The academies are just one element of the Bundesliga that stands out. Ownership rules preventing any investor from immediately purchasing a majority stake in a club would prohibit the sort of buy-outs at Liverpool,Manchester City, Chelsea, Manchester United and Portsmouth. Affordable wage ratios also ensure that, although the Bundesliga is behind the Premier League in generating revenue, its clubs are the most profitable in the world.
German stadiums are also collectively the most modern in Europe and attract the highest crowds (including vast areas for safe standing), while the restraint in spending allows ticket prices to remain low. The average Bundesliga ticket is 21 euros and children pay as little as five euros.
It has already made a big impression on Steve McClaren, the lone English manager in the Bundesliga, who is in charge of Wolfsburg.
"The beauty of the Bundesliga is any one of 10 teams can win it," he said. "The stadiums are magnificent and the atmosphere is fantastic."
I hate to say this - but I really don't think any team really stand-out that great in this tournament. I cannot even name any good players that have really done anything great with consistency. Yes I know some of you were having a wank over Ronaldo but I tend to remember the chances he has missed, and as for Spain - they were pretty average against Crotia, and Italy. Germany yes they play nice shit, but I think they can be broken down and got at as the Greeks showed today, think England should bore them into a lull and then really go at them with a surprise.
The tournament is there for the taking for England.
The tournament is there for the taking for England.
*checks watch*
Is it that time inbetween the group games and the QF already?
Is it that time inbetween the group games and the QF already?
R
RedZeppelin III
Guest
another big difference is that in germany football is king and a large part of the community , people are willing to get involved and invest their time , local games will always get a few people even if the standard isn't top class . In the UK it's hard to get people to commit that time or effort , very few are arsed .
And for all levels they have strict rules on the coaching qualifications you must have and how often you must refresh these . You see some 10 yr olds training and it's not just some kick about , it's proper drills and exercises .
I contrast this when i was that age and we were all ready to train but had to wait while someone from the club got our coach (some lad's dad) out of the pub , at 1030am in the morning ! Of course he'd just turn up , make 2 teams and throw a ball in the middle , away you go ! .
And for all levels they have strict rules on the coaching qualifications you must have and how often you must refresh these . You see some 10 yr olds training and it's not just some kick about , it's proper drills and exercises .
I contrast this when i was that age and we were all ready to train but had to wait while someone from the club got our coach (some lad's dad) out of the pub , at 1030am in the morning ! Of course he'd just turn up , make 2 teams and throw a ball in the middle , away you go ! .
I still can't believe he picked that side (the fucking dyed haired german tosser!)
I was in pole position to win £250 from a works fantasy team until the twat did that. He's just treated a QF of a major international like the Carling cup, i hope they get humped in the semi's.
I was in pole position to win £250 from a works fantasy team until the twat did that. He's just treated a QF of a major international like the Carling cup, i hope they get humped in the semi's.
According to German press, he changed it because he felt the 3 players he dropped had been wasteful and missed too many chances. The 3 he brought in had impressed in training and would offer more relentless pressure against a static defensive Greece. It wasn't about resting the big players. Sorry 4pm x
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