Ease Off On Benteke

[manwithnoname]

Well I think it certainly is difficult to work out where we go from here. No particular permutation of the squad looks much more promising than any other. I suppose my way of putting it is that the goal of building something to get the best out of Benteke looks even further away and even less promising than any of the other routes to success, given this starting point.

And even that's assuming you're right about his potential.

Yeah, well I keep putting up team sheets with Firmino playing centrally behind Benteke, despite the fact that when we HAVE tried that, it's been fucking dismal. But I still think we need to try it a few more times before giving up entirely. Maybe introduce Ojo/ Ibe and a bit more pace on one side.

I suppose I just think it's still too early to write him off, especially considering the injury problems to the likes of the aforementioned Ings, a change in manager and playing style, plus the fact that he DOES have a good scoring record and I've seen him play very well for Villa; well enough to make his current travails even more annoying, because he CAN look like a very good striker.

 

[davud graham]

Yeah, Aldo was all that and more. And he was also fortunate to play with Barnes and Beardsley, who are both light years better than anything we currently have, so that probably helped a bit too.

It certainly did help Aldo having Barnes and Beardsley but he scored loads of goals wherever he played. The amount of goals he scored for Tranmere (174 goals in 294 appearances) was very impressive considering he was 32 when he joined them.

 

[tony]

So do I: Christian Benteke, who has scored 48 Premiership goals in the last four seasons, vs Andy Carroll, who has 17.

Of course, Carroll has played fewer games, so it's only fair to look at the number of games played, in which we can see that Carroll scores about 0.26 goals per appearance, and Benteke is about 0.54. So that's Benteke again.

In fact, Benteke has already scored as many Premiership goals for Liverpool as Carroll managed in his entire Liverpool career.

Benteke has scored 7 in 1738 minutes not far off 1 in 3.
Comparing him to Carroll is like comparing dog shit to cat shit

 

[gkmacca]

Liverpool’s struggling striker Christian Benteke can be as good as Robert Lewandowski if he is given time to adapt at Anfield, claims Brendan Rodgers.

Benteke has scored just seven goals since joining Liverpool from Aston Villa for £32m during the summer, leading to suggestions he may move on at the end of the season.

However, former Liverpool manager Rodgers says the forward can emulate Lewandowski – who has won three Bundesliga titles with Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich – if he is given time to adapt to Jurgen Klopp’s style.
“We felt at that time that Christian was up there in terms of goals to games,” Rodgers said of his decision to move for Benteke, who netted 16 times for Villa last season.

“We felt that he was someone that we didn’t have in the squad. The problem now is the patience element. There doesn’t seem to be time.

“We talk about patience. An example is Robert Lewandowski at Bayern Munich and he wouldn’t have got the patience in the Premier League that he did in the Bundesliga and now look at him. Christian over time will show he’s a top class player.”

Rodgers revealed that he invited Klopp to his home after the German was appointed as his successor.

“I remember when Klopp first got the job and we sat down and we spoke. We sat and had a chat at my house. He’s a good guy. Whatever help he needed going into the job, I was there for that.

 

[Best Believe It]

Lewandowski was 22 when he joined Dortmund and was signed for 4.5 million euro. It's not quite the same. I don't think people would be complaining as much if he was at least playing as well as he did for Villa. He's not even doing that though.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Liverpool’s struggling striker Christian Benteke can be as good as Robert Lewandowski if he is given time to adapt at Anfield, claims Brendan Rodgers.

Benteke has scored just seven goals since joining Liverpool from Aston Villa for £32m during the summer, leading to suggestions he may move on at the end of the season.

However, former Liverpool manager Rodgers says the forward can emulate Lewandowski – who has won three Bundesliga titles with Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich – if he is given time to adapt to Jurgen Klopp’s style.
“We felt at that time that Christian was up there in terms of goals to games,” Rodgers said of his decision to move for Benteke, who netted 16 times for Villa last season.

“We felt that he was someone that we didn’t have in the squad. The problem now is the patience element. There doesn’t seem to be time.

“We talk about patience. An example is Robert Lewandowski at Bayern Munich and he wouldn’t have got the patience in the Premier League that he did in the Bundesliga and now look at him. Christian over time will show he’s a top class player.”

Rodgers revealed that he invited Klopp to his home after the German was appointed as his successor.

“I remember when Klopp first got the job and we sat down and we spoke. We sat and had a chat at my house. He’s a good guy. Whatever help he needed going into the job, I was there for that.

He is still taking those drugs I see

That's right up their with the Welsh Xavi statement

 

[manwithnoname]

I'm not sure he directly says that Benteke could be as good as Lewandowski

 

[Best Believe It]

I'm not sure he directly says that Benteke could be as good as Lewandowski

He doesn't in fairness. He was making a point about players not being afforded patience.

 

[6TimesaRed]

He doesn't in fairness. He was making a point about players not being afforded patience.

With a 32 million price tag on his head, quite rightly he shouldn't be afforded patience to the level he has had so far

Given he is also 'Premiership Proven..'

For that money you should expect intstant results

Its arguably a hypocritical thing to say from Rodgers...where was his Patience with Markovic?

 

[mom]

Why on earth would you expect instant results when he's being asked to play in a totally different way in a different role?

Let's put Sturridge up front and do nothing but float crosses in for him to head in and see how well he does...

He's a good player. End of. But does he fit our style of play? Probably not. Can he adapt? We shall see.
He needs time on the pitch and time in training with Klopp, neither of which he is getting at the moment.

He wouldn't have been my first choice striker signing in the summer, and I wouldn't have spent that much on him, but now that he is here, let's give the guy a fair crack of the whip.

 

[Tinto]

He doesn't in fairness. He was making a point about players not being afforded patience.

It's not that hard for a new player to earn a bit of patience. All you have to do is get out on the pitch and show effort and enthusiasm. Both of which Benteke hasn't shown enough of.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Why on earth would you expect instant results when he's being asked to play in a totally different way in a different role?

Let's put Sturridge up front and do nothing but float crosses in for him to head in and see how well he does...

He's a good player. End of. But does he fit our style of play? Probably not. Can he adapt? We shall see.
He needs time on the pitch and time in training with Klopp, neither of which he is getting at the moment.

He wouldn't have been my first choice striker signing in the summer, and I wouldn't have spent that much on him, but now that he is here, let's give the guy a fair crack of the whip.

Because we paid 32 million for him and he is 'Prem Proven..'

Of course you would expect for that fee instant results.. We are 38 games in, for Benteke, thats a normal amount of games for a Season for a club like Aston Villa. How much more time does he need? seriously???

The fact he doesn't suit our style play, and he is unable to show any signs of adapting is all the more the reason he has to go at the end of the Season.. For 32 million you would expect the player to adapt.. Though not getting on to his lack of style, the blame solely land with whoever suggested and sanctioned this transfer in the first place..

Why. ? We need to look at reclaiming our losses, before his value diminishes to the Carroll Extremes..

 

[Arn]

Carroll didn't fit the playing style and didn't get any chance at all by Rodgers but a player with the same playing style that don't fit our playing style should be given time.

I do wonder what Mr Rodgers is smoking. Not good for his health to smoke heavy stuff like that.

No Mr Rodgers, Benteke was yet another example how shit manager you are. Carroll at least is excellent in the air and work his socks off. Not a great player but he is a team player. Benteke is a big coward. Backs out of challenges and instead waits for the ball and not attacking it.

Benteke can just fuck off.

I don't think Rodgers will sign Benteke for £32.5m when he get his next job but you never know. Rodgers is shit scouting a player.

 

[Mersey86]

Why on earth would you expect instant results when he's being asked to play in a totally different way in a different role?

Let's put Sturridge up front and do nothing but float crosses in for him to head in and see how well he does...

He's a good player. End of. But does he fit our style of play? Probably not. Can he adapt? We shall see.
He needs time on the pitch and time in training with Klopp, neither of which he is getting at the moment.

He wouldn't have been my first choice striker signing in the summer, and I wouldn't have spent that much on him, but now that he is here, let's give the guy a fair crack of the whip.

Can't disagree with any of that - except that he probably is getting time in training with Klopp.

 

[Mersey86]

It's not that hard for a new player to earn a bit of patience. All you have to do is get out on the pitch and show effort and enthusiasm. Both of which Benteke hasn't shown enough of.

Fair point. But at the same time, if you buy a thoroughbred horse, you're not going to ask it to trot around the stables carrying every visitor who wants a tour. I personally have thought Benteke's effort has been fine the last few games. He's short of confidence though, and if that returns we'll see better movement too.

 

[Mersey86]

Benteke is a big coward. Backs out of challenges and instead waits for the ball and not attacking it.
.

Arn, I told you to ease off on Benteke. I'm not going to ask you again!

 

[Tinto]

Fair point. But at the same time, if you buy a thoroughbred horse, you're not going to ask it to trot around the stables carrying every visitor who wants a tour. I personally have thought Benteke's effort has been fine the last few games. He's short of confidence though, and if that returns we'll see better movement too.

Except Benteke isn't a thoroughbred horse. He's not so good that you build your attack around him.

I thought he was bad in both ties against Exeter but his effort was better against Stoke. Good pen too. Didn't see the West Ham game.

 

[Mersey86]

I thought he was OK against Exeter. Against West Ham he was just a little off - should have scored in first half - but at least was there to do it. In the second fine instinctive shot brought excellent save, follow-up was a good chance where he probably should have done better. I understand the frustration, and share it to an extent. But I don't agree with those who say that he is not owed any patience due to the size of the fee. For me, he should be afforded more patience unless his attitude is poor - which I don't think it is.

 

[Judge Jules]

I thought he was OK against Exeter. Against West Ham he was just a little off - should have scored in first half - but at least was there to do it. In the second fine instinctive shot brought excellent save, follow-up was a good chance where he probably should have done better. I understand the frustration, and share it to an extent. But I don't agree with those who say that he is not owed any patience due to the size of the fee. For me, he should be afforded more patience unless his attitude is poor - which I don't think it is.

That word "instinctive" is the crux of the problem with Benteke IMO. He operates far better on instinct than he does when he has time to think, but if coaching's going to be effective it needs the player to think about what he's been advised or taught to do, which doesn't seem to be his strong point. He opens himself up to accusations of poor attitude by his immobility on the pitch, but I suspect that's more a matter of him not knowing what to do than it's one of not giving a feck. Ultimately, though, if he isn't capable of benefiting from the coaching he gets he won't be around for much longer.

 

[Arn]

He will almost guaranteed be sold in the summer. After Klopp signed a new striker then he will be as best fourth choice maybe even fifth if Sturridge can stay fit.

New striker, Origi, Ings and maybe Sturridge will be ahead of him.

 

[mark1975]

Because we paid 32 million for him and he is 'Prem Proven..'

Of course you would expect for that fee instant results.. We are 38 games in, for Benteke, thats a normal amount of games for a Season for a club like Aston Villa. How much more time does he need? seriously???

The fact he doesn't suit our style play, and he is unable to show any signs of adapting is all the more the reason he has to go at the end of the Season.. For 32 million you would expect the player to adapt.. Though not getting on to his lack of style, the blame solely land with whoever suggested and sanctioned this transfer in the first place..

Why. ? We need to look at reclaiming our losses, before his value diminishes to the Carroll Extremes..

I'm loathed to defend whether he is suited to how we are wanting to play, but he's hardly been given a fair crack under Klopp. He's been put into patchwork sides in the Cup and thrown on at the deadend of Premiership games to try to throw us a lifeline. It's not about settling in, when he's played regularly he's scored a few goals even if he has looked out of place, when he hasn't played he's looked shy of confidence and struggled. Go figure.

It's not just about him adapting, it's about us adapting to him too. We've gone from the extreme of Carroll/Crouch syndrome of seeing a centre forward at the top end of the pitch and instinctively pumping it long (it's worked sometimes btw, against Chelsea for example), to games like yesterday which just beggared fucking belief. We put high, quality crosses in for the first 60 minutes of the game, and then threw him on and decided to start delaying putting the ball in first time (which is what he does thrive on), instead we pissed about and pissed about until he was drawn out of the forward positions to seek out possession. He's been offside alot, he's mis-controlled it and fucked up easy chances, but he's also been a victim of being bought big and expected to be a completely fucking different player to what he is, and for it to happen overnight too.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering going to the lengths of explaining this to the most impatient pillock on 6cm, but there you have it. Put that in your microwave.

 

[keniget]

Arsenal are able to play with Giroud, City with Dzeko / Negredo / Bony, so in theory there is no reason why style of play should prevent us from playing with that type of striker.

There is obviously the point about the quality of the players we have but we need to be able to change up our play a lot more than we seem capable at the moment.

 

[mark1975]

Arsenal are able to play with Giroud, City with Dzeko / Negredo / Bony, so in theory there is no reason why style of play should prevent us from playing with that type of striker.

There is obviously the point about the quality of the players we have but we need to be able to change up our play a lot more than we seem capable at the moment.

Agreed. Giroud wasn't all that a couple of seasons ago either, I thought he was pretty awful considering the strikers they've had in the past, but they stuck with him, gave him confidence and got their rewards.

 

[mom]

Can't disagree with any of that - except that he probably is getting time in training with Klopp.

Honestly, with the amount of games we have to tackle, I don't think anyone gets enough time with Klopp. That's part of the problem. Lack of a preseason has really hindered Klopp

 

[mom]

Because we paid 32 million for him and he is 'Prem Proven..'

Of course you would expect for that fee instant results.. We are 38 games in, for Benteke, thats a normal amount of games for a Season for a club like Aston Villa. How much more time does he need? seriously???

The fact he doesn't suit our style play, and he is unable to show any signs of adapting is all the more the reason he has to go at the end of the Season.. For 32 million you would expect the player to adapt.. Though not getting on to his lack of style, the blame solely land with whoever suggested and sanctioned this transfer in the first place..

Why. ? We need to look at reclaiming our losses, before his value diminishes to the Carroll Extremes..

Expect him to adapt? Seriously?
So when looking for a striker we were choosing on the basis of how well he'd adapt? How do you gauge that? Do you look at all his previous moves and see how well he adapted? Of course not. Because it's irrelevant as every team is different.
Yes, of course, being used to the league helps, but again, when you're asking him to play a role that he's just not used to playing, for a team that plays a brand of football that he's not used to playing, you'd be nuts to expect him to just adapt.
Like I said, stick Sturridge in the box and ping in crosses all day and see how well he adapts. Don't fancy your chances there mate.
Had he moved from villa to us and we were playing the same brand of football and basing the game around him as it was there, then yeh, I'd expect fast results.
And as for the price we paid, what's that got to do with him? If we were daft enough to pay that, that's our problem, not his.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I'm loathed to defend whether he is suited to how we are wanting to play, but he's hardly been given a fair crack under Klopp. He's been put into patchwork sides in the Cup and thrown on at the deadend of Premiership games to try to throw us a lifeline. It's not about settling in, when he's played regularly he's scored a few goals even if he has looked out of place, when he hasn't played he's looked shy of confidence and struggled. Go figure.

It's not just about him adapting, it's about us adapting to him too. We've gone from the extreme of Carroll/Crouch syndrome of seeing a centre forward at the top end of the pitch and instinctively pumping it long (it's worked sometimes btw, against Chelsea for example), to games like yesterday which just beggared fucking belief. We put high, quality crosses in for the first 60 minutes of the game, and then threw him on and decided to start delaying putting the ball in first time (which is what he does thrive on), instead we pissed about and pissed about until he was drawn out of the forward positions to seek out possession. He's been offside alot, he's mis-controlled it and fucked up easy chances, but he's also been a victim of being bought big and expected to be a completely fucking different player to what he is, and for it to happen overnight too.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering going to the lengths of explaining this to the most impatient pillock on 6cm, but there you have it. Put that in your microwave.

Yes there are arguments the team need to adapt to his strengths, though that could prove more costly.. The squad would need an absolute overhaul....

That being said he just come across as lazy.. We normally have had strikers that makes things happen through them, can make something from nothing.. Benteke ain't that type of player, if we want to compete, we need that type of player..

Benteke is always gong to be a plan B option at a club like Liverpool, for the money we paid that's simply not good enough.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yes there are arguments the team need to adapt to his strengths, though that could prove more costly.. The squad would need an absolute overhaul....

That being said he just come across as lazy.. We normally have had strikers that makes things happen through them, can make something from nothing.. Benteke ain't that type of player, if we want to compete, we need that type of player..

Benteke is always gong to be a plan B option at a club like Liverpool, for the money we paid that's simply not good enough.

It would be fine if we actually had a Plan A

 

[manwithnoname]

Arsenal are able to play with Giroud, City with Dzeko / Negredo / Bony, so in theory there is no reason why style of play should prevent us from playing with that type of striker.

There is obviously the point about the quality of the players we have but we need to be able to change up our play a lot more than we seem capable at the moment.

Yeah. This.

 

[Rafiagra]

He's the one player we have who 'can' score goals, so we might as well put him on the pitch. I suppose Firmino can aswell, so get him in place of Lallana or Milner who offer sod all of a goal threat.

 

[6TimesaRed]

He's the one player we have who 'can' score goals, so we might as well put him on the pitch. I suppose Firmino can aswell, so get him in place of Lallana or Milner who offer sod all of a goal threat.

He may offer a goal threat, but it is how he links up with the rest of the team that's seems to be the problem..