Benteke is getting more flack here than Carroll.
But it doesn't bother me. I wasn't too sure about any of them.
Ease Off On Benteke
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Benteke is getting more flack here than Carroll.
But it doesn't bother me. I wasn't too sure about any of them.
The lack of patience from myself has nothing to do with the transfer fee but with his unsuitability for the type of football that we play.
He did well at villa as their team was set up to optimise his strengths, namely his aerial ability and connecting with crossed balls ,consequently they played with wingers and threw cross after cross into him. We don't play with wingers who look to cross the ball in early (seems foolish to me that we don't when Benteke is playing but what do I know) and he looks like a fish out of water without the right service.
Maybe that's being harsh as the goals we conceded to him when he was playing for Villa had more to do with him being strong on the ball and shooting powerfully. But our defence in the games against him continually backed off him when he was in posession and paid the price. I haven't seen any opposition defences making the same mistake this season.
The other big difference with his Villa days is that they generally were defending most of the time whilst looking to hit teams on the break with Agbonlahor's pace and Benteke's power. At Liverpool however teams tend to sit back against us and Benteke has to hold the ball up with his back to goal and wait for reinforcements which he isn't very good at because his technical ability isn't particularly good and his passing isn't fantastic either.
When we were linked with him most fans couldn't understand why we were going for a player that didn't suit our style of play and he hasn't surprised many people unfortunately.
I'd love him to prove myself and others wrong as don't ever want to see a liverpool player playing badly but i don't think that Klopp will change the style of play to suit Benteke and I don't think that Benteke can change his style enough to prosper. I think he's a good player but just not for us.
I'm not a pundit but I wanted us to sign him.
I think he's a really good player but it's just not worked out. He really fucking needs a goal soon, his confidence is absolutely shot to pieces.
As many others have said, he will end up leaving in the summer and will be a great success somewhere else. Just not here unfortunately.
I think he's a really good player but it's just not worked out. He really fucking needs a goal soon, his confidence is absolutely shot to pieces.
As many others have said, he will end up leaving in the summer and will be a great success somewhere else. Just not here unfortunately.
I think Aldridge certainly said he would be. I didn't think there were that many though; unlike Carroll, who was pretty much lauded when we signed him, most people were a little bemused by Benteke's signing, especially as Rodgers was in the position of needing someone to dig him out of a hole.
When Carroll is fit - which is surely the key thing about him as he hardly ever is - he looks a damn sight more dangerous than Benteke, IMO. I know Carroll must be maligned constantly to fit in with LFC fan mythology, but I know which one is more likely to get into the area, cause havoc and score a goal.
Benteke's always been streaky and in theory there's still time for him to find some form this season. Unfortunately, in practice I can't see it happening.
I think its too early to say that
So do I: Christian Benteke, who has scored 48 Premiership goals in the last four seasons, vs Andy Carroll, who has 17.
Of course, Carroll has played fewer games, so it's only fair to look at the number of games played, in which we can see that Carroll scores about 0.26 goals per appearance, and Benteke is about 0.54. So that's Benteke again.
In fact, Benteke has already scored as many Premiership goals for Liverpool as Carroll managed in his entire Liverpool career.
Steve Nicol: "I am very positive about Benteke. I wouldn’t like to play against him. The guy is a beast. He scores goals and I actually don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for the talent he has with his feet. I would be more than happy for Christian Benteke to be at Liverpool next season."
Steve McMahon: "It's a good signing. With him in the squad, Liverpool will have more chance of winning the big games against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal."
John Barnes: "He would cause people a lot of problems.”
Mark Lawrenson: "Christian Benteke could be the final piece of the jigsaw".
Ray Houghton: "Benteke is a huge player. I think if he went to Liverpool he would fit into the style. He's something they haven't got, he's big, he's physical. He can upset defenders, he's got genuine pace and when you get him in the right frame of mind he can score goals."
John Aldridge: "Benteke is a danger. On his day, he's a tremendous forward, a 20-goal a season man. I'd be happy if Liverpool got him in the summer".
Morally you're already standing on thin ice matey so I'd stop the heavy handed sarcasm on here.
Good old Aldo.
Sep 13: Balotelli "could be a worldbeater and a legend"
Nov 10: Aldo "baffled" by Rodgers' persistence with Balotelli: "he looks out of place, he looks uncomfortable, he doesn’t know where to run, or when to run"
Sep 13: Balotelli "could be a worldbeater and a legend"
Nov 10: Aldo "baffled" by Rodgers' persistence with Balotelli: "he looks out of place, he looks uncomfortable, he doesn’t know where to run, or when to run"
You appear to be confusing morality with facts, statistics and reality. I'm not pretending Benteke has been great. Some of his recent displays have been egregious. But let's not start creating a fantasy world in which Andy Carroll was somehow a more prolific goalscorer.
Really?!
I can't get involved in a Balotelli discussion, as he's one of the very, very few players I was entirely distraught about us signing, and was convinced he was 100% guaranteed to be a disaster. Plus I genuinely dislike him, and always have.
It's not just the cost, it's that he looks a total misfit. It's hard to see how he turns it round because it was always hard to see how he'd fit in in the first place.
Maybe they're just putting a positive spin on it, but if not, I think that shows how useless their opinions are. Half this forum knew he wouldn't be a great fit.
I've never really been one for claiming a certain "type" of footballer has no place at Anfield, so I'm not sure wondering how he'd "fit in" was all that valid when we signed him. Certainly, Rodgers must have had some clue to persuade the club to spend £32m on him, and I've been at Anfield watching him play for Villa, when he totally decimated us. And there didn't seem to be a style of play evident, he was just great; powerful, quick, great finishing and also really good with the ball (seem to recall a cute back heel to set up a goal too).
Same with Carroll. With him Kenny did try and bring in players who could supply the sort of deliveries he would thrive on, but his lack of fitness, effort and mentality seemed to count against him. And he wasn't helped by the likes of Downing and Adam being ever so slightly underwhelming.
I do have a preference for pace, beautiful finishing skills, lovely technique etc; watching aesthetically pleasing strikers like Fowler, Torres, Suarez and Owen scoring with brilliant abandon is joyous. But I'm not 100% averse to having a slightly less artistic striking presence, as long as it's effective and they score goals.
Look at Giroud. I'm sure most Arsenal fans wish he was Thierry Henry, and prefer Sanchez, but they've had great service from him, and he's a player with a pretty defined style and attributes. They just maximise them. And nobody moans about them changing to a more agricultural style, or lumping endless high balls into the box.
It's not so much fitting into a' big club' style per se that was the problem I had with him, but fitting into the style pretty much set down by our main creative players like Coutinho, Lallana, and Firmino.
That is a practical issue.
And it's basically the exact same problem that Carroll brought. I still remember shortly after his signing (while he was still injured) watching us batter Fulham with a freewheeling attack and Suarez on fire, and wondering just how the hell Carroll would make any kind of contribution.
Perhaps Benteke would be better served with different players, yes. But what striker would thrive with Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino? They simply don't create enough chances and they generally only do it one way: a threaded through ball, flick or lofted pass. None has the pace or skill set to beat players on the outside, and supply great delivery from wide, and they don't score enough either. It's not fair to blame everything on Benteke, who is STILL our top scorer.
It's clear we need more pace and attacking options in the team, and Klopp knows this as well as we do.
Yeah, you could certainly argue that part of the plan for Benteke should have been around who ELSE we needed to buy to get the best out of him, but he's a good player and we could (and should) find ways to get more end product. When we signed Aldridge many were distraught, given that he seemed to be a cut-price Ian Rush, but he was supported by the likes of Barnes and Beardsley, who created chances and scored goals, but in markedly different ways.
If Aldo had had Firmino and Lallana around him, he'd struggle massively because he isn't the type of player who can survive trying to chase down lofted passes, flicks over the top. I think sometimes we look at what isn't working and change the wrong components.
Sadly yes.
He can't play as a lone striker, that much is certain. I would however like to put him behind firmino. He does his best work on the edge of the box as opposed to making the runs.
I don't think either of us are going to get much appreciation. You're trying to get Balotelli back in the side to play as support striker to Firmino, and I'm fighting a losing battle by attempting to defend Benteke, and apportioning blame on other Liverpool players for his failure to shine.
I'll add another: his hold up play is generally excellent, but he has ZERO players willing to make runs beyond him. Apart from Texeira, once. He's usually almost entirely isolated, or holding up the ball for players situated next to or alongside him.
When he played for Villa he was afforded more space than he is with us and he's struggled to adapt to having less time on the ball in a smaller area. His work with his back to goal has been pretty average and players like Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino haven't gelled with him as they look to play one twos or flicks and short passes as you say but Benteke isn't switched on enough to make it work. He seems to react rather than anticipate and fitting into the rhythm of the players around you makes a big difference which is probably why he gets caught offside so much as he doesn't know when the pass is coming.
As far as his heading ability is concerned i think he's missed far more chances than he's scored from the albeit limited chances we create from crosses. He's only scored 1 headed goal so far. I think he'd be getting much more time to impress if he was new to the country or the Premier league but at times he looks like this is his debut season.Obviously his confidence has dipped but the only way for him to get better is by working his arse off and taking some chances.
Also Aldo was better in the air than Benteke and far better at finishing in General , his play with his back to goal was pretty good as well.
As far as his heading ability is concerned i think he's missed far more chances than he's scored from the albeit limited chances we create from crosses. He's only scored 1 headed goal so far. I think he'd be getting much more time to impress if he was new to the country or the Premier league but at times he looks like this is his debut season.Obviously his confidence has dipped but the only way for him to get better is by working his arse off and taking some chances.
Also Aldo was better in the air than Benteke and far better at finishing in General , his play with his back to goal was pretty good as well.
Yeah, Aldo was all that and more. And he was also fortunate to play with Barnes and Beardsley, who are both light years better than anything we currently have, so that probably helped a bit too.
I'd hope that Ings develops a good understanding with Benteke. He's a clever little player who actually thinks-through problems on the pitch and uses his imagination and initiative to try to solve them. It's the kind of help, as has been said, that Benteke painfully lacks at the present.
Well I think it certainly is difficult to work out where we go from here. No particular permutation of the squad looks much more promising than any other. I suppose my way of putting it is that the goal of building something to get the best out of Benteke looks even further away and even less promising than any of the other routes to success, given this starting point.
And even that's assuming you're right about his potential.
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