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Downing

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I swear some posters are a bunch of penny pinching skinflints 🙂 We can afford it, it's not your money, why worry about selling on we're not a selling club. Even his harshest critics say he's above average, so his quality is not in question, so lets look forward to seeing what he adds to to the team.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44931.msg1364752#msg1364752 date=1310618341]
Haha. Mata is better in basically every way and younger, so hopefully we've set a benchmark that prices Arsenal right out of buying him.
[/quote]

No one even knows if Mata is available to us, if to anyone and whether he'd even be interested in coming here. I've reiterated I'm not happy about the fee for Downing, though I do think he's a good player, but all this Mata/Hazard/fictional winger talk is without knowing whether players of their stature would even want to come to us and assuming enquiries have not even been made. Nobody knows the ins and outs and whether we've enquired about these players and if they would even be interested. It's clear Downing has been a prime target, but we're in the dark about initial discussions and let's be honest, we know fuck all about what's to come. Did anyone think we'd have even spent £40m+ so far?

Sure, we might have got better value for money elsewhere, though like myself and a few others have said, we're not in the CL so this could just be a ploy (allbeit a safe-ish one) to try to hit the ground running in the Premiership this season.

Alot of people moaned and groaned about us dragging our feet over the Adam deal, until they found out we'd agreed a deal for £7.5m, the only people quoting a price at present over Downing is the ever wrong SSN.

So he's reportedly overpriced, we're looking to be building a good squad and we're on the right track. Again, there's a long way to go before anyone can justifiably start flapping the way they have in this thread. And the Adam one. And the Henderson one. And the countless ones about how amateurish we are, how we're being left behind and how it's the same old typical Liverpool transfer window.

People need to look back 12 months.
 
Or perhaps Ryan, posters change their knee-jerk opinion of another clubs player they've seen relatively little of once they've done a little more research (stats, fans of Villa opinions, obligatory vids etc) into the player and his recent form when it becomes apparent he's a target. Hence, "Downing is shit" over a matter of weeks of consideration might become "he's actually pretty decent and will improve our shit left-side no end". The fees paid are irrelevant in an inflated market to the real pressing issue of improving weak areas in our starting 11.

I'm always less inclined to criticise posters who'll be prepared to change their opinions over time than those who bang the same old tired rhetoric about players and disregard anything contrary.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44931.msg1364765#msg1364765 date=1310624261]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44931.msg1364752#msg1364752 date=1310618341]
Haha. Mata is better in basically every way and younger, so hopefully we've set a benchmark that prices Arsenal right out of buying him.
[/quote]

No one even knows if Mata is available to us, if to anyone and whether he'd even be interested in coming here. I've reiterated I'm not happy about the fee for Downing, though I do think he's a good player, but all this Mata/Hazard/fictional winger talk is without knowing whether players of their stature would even want to come to us and assuming enquiries have not even been made. Nobody knows the ins and outs and whether we've enquired about these players and if they would even be interested. It's clear Downing has been a prime target, but we're in the dark about initial discussions and let's be honest, we know fuck all about what's to come. Did anyone think we'd have even spent £40m+ so far?

Sure, we might have got better value for money elsewhere, though like myself and a few others have said, we're not in the CL so this could just be a ploy (allbeit a safe-ish one) to try to hit the ground running in the Premiership this season.

Alot of people moaned and groaned about us dragging our feet over the Adam deal, until they found out we'd agreed a deal for £7.5m, the only people quoting a price at present over Downing is the ever wrong SSN.

So he's reportedly overpriced, we're looking to be building a good squad and we're on the right track. Again, there's a long way to go before anyone can justifiably start flapping the way they have in this thread. And the Adam one. And the Henderson one. And the countless ones about how amateurish we are, how we're being left behind and how it's the same old typical Liverpool transfer window.

People need to look back 12 months.
[/quote]

No need to. I can look back to 5 weeks ago when you said you didn't want him.
 
It's pretty obvious the point was about looking at the bigger picture, looking where we were 12 months ago. It was hardly championing Downing to much degree, certainly not to justify the reply anyway.

Do I think he's a good player? Yeah. Do I think he's worth some of the prices quoted? No. Will he improve us? Yes, whether significantly enough will be played out, so I'm not flapping over it yet. We don't know what's to come, like I said.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44931.msg1364774#msg1364774 date=1310626077]
Can he do stepovers?
[/quote]

The more pressing question, is whether he can do Harry Kewell stepovers?
 
Mark, obviously if you start the narrative at the point where we were teetering on the abyss, where we are now is a massive improvement. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I'm just not encouraged by the mere fact that we are willing to spend, I want to know that we are doing it appropriately. We've been here before, the question is are we spending in a way that's productive. It does make me concerned when we overspend on players with very limited resale value, that's all, it's not like I think we are doomed, just that doing that really increases the cost of failure.
 
scream_3.jpg
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44931.msg1364777#msg1364777 date=1310626259]
Mark, obviously if you start the narrative at the point where we were teetering on the abyss, where we are now is a massive improvement. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I'm just not encouraged by the mere fact that we are willing to spend, I want to know that we are doing it appropriately. We've been here before, the question is are we spending in a way that's productive. It does make me concerned when we overspend on players with very limited resale value, that's all, it's not like I think we are doomed, just that doing that really increases the cost of failure.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44931.msg1364777#msg1364777 date=1310626259]
Mark, obviously if you start the narrative at the point where we were teetering on the abyss, where we are now is a massive improvement. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I'm just not encouraged by the mere fact that we are willing to spend, I want to know that we are doing it appropriately. We've been here before, the question is are we spending in a way that's productive. It does make me concerned when we overspend on players with very limited resale value, that's all, it's not like I think we are doomed, just that doing that really increases the cost of failure.
[/quote]

I understand the concerns Fark, I was just taking offence to the constant "none of you wanted him two months ago". Let's just see how shite he does, and then the 'whole forum' can be reminded of when we said he was going to win the Premiership for us, etc. Except we didn't.

We all know the potential pitfalls of overspending, we know it too well. Rosco suggested earlier in the thread that money would be tight and it would be doubtful whether the owners would be investing much (if any) of their own cash. Which was fair enough, though a few said at the time we're pretty much in the dark about things and that it wasn't a given. There could be more to come yet.

Anyway, you can get your fingers burned at both ends of the market. We invested heavily enough in Ryan Babel and many said 'well at least he's got resalable value" - he went for half the price we paid after us investing time and money in developing him. The same could be said of relative young players like Cisse, Diouf and Cheyrou, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, whatever the age.
 
mata mata mata...

do we know he even wants to come here?
I for one am glad we have downing, we now have ONE player in the entire first team squad who will hug the touch line and deliver accurate crosses all game long, not even mata would have provided that (although he would have opened up teams in other ways) we need width and downing will go some way to providing that. you go to any neutral football fan as ask what is the biggest flaw in liverpool's game and they will tell you they lack width.
 
Reading through this thread there are a few things that really gets on my nerves. We are not buying Henderson, Adam and Downing to accomodate Andy Carroll.
What is the Kings philosophy? Pass and move. What do the three new lads have in common? They're all excellent passers of the ball.
In other words we're adding more players to the squad tht can enhance the basic philosophy. But they also bring something different on an individual level. Henderson with enthusiasm, energy, creativity, possible wingplay and being one for the future, Adam with pinpoint accuracy from set pieces and excellent passing range, creativity and the ability to change play from one side to another and Downing with proper wing play, width, crossing ability, pace and give the team more balance.

The sum of all this will parts make us a better team regarding pass and move, but will also give us more strings to play on. Teams will find it harder to play against us as we'll plenty of more options. And that is the key here. Forget about the names of the players, that doesnt matter. Its what they bring to the team collectivly and individually.

Andy Carroll will enjoy the lads crossing ability, but Suarez and Gerrard will get as much out of their ability to spot a pass or keep the ball on the ground. In other words we can score goals from all over the pitch and have signed players that will add to the total goal tally.

Try looking at the bigger picture. Its starting to look pretty fricking good.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1364795#msg1364795 date=1310629488]
Reading through this thread there are a few things that really gets on my nerves. We are not buying Henderson, Adam and Downing to accomodate Andy Carroll.
What is the Kings philosophy? Pass and move. What do the three new lads have in common? They're all excellent passers of the ball.
In other words we're adding more players to the squad tht can enhance the basic philosophy. But they also bring something different on an individual level. Henderson with enthusiasm, energy, creativity, possible wingplay and being one for the future, Adam with pinpoint accuracy from set pieces and excellent passing range, creativity and the ability to change play from one side to another and Downing with proper wing play, width, crossing ability, pace and give the team more balance.

The sum of all this will parts make us a better team regarding pass and move, but will also give us more strings to play on. Teams will find it harder to play against us as we'll plenty of more options. And that is the key here. Forget about the names of the players, that doesnt matter. Its what they bring to the team collectivly and individually.

Andy Carroll will enjoy the lads crossing ability, but Suarez and Gerrard will get as much out of their ability to spot a pass or keep the ball on the ground. In other words we can score goals from all over the pitch and have signed players that will add to the total goal tally.

Try looking at the bigger picture. Its starting to look pretty fricking good.
[/quote]

My sentiments exactly.
 
FFS Andy Carroll is actually quite good on the ground too you know? People making out we've just got a floating head up top
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1364795#msg1364795 date=1310629488]
Reading through this thread there are a few things that really gets on my nerves. We are not buying Henderson, Adam and Downing to accomodate Andy Carroll.
What is the Kings philosophy? Pass and move. What do the three new lads have in common? They're all excellent passers of the ball.
In other words we're adding more players to the squad tht can enhance the basic philosophy. But they also bring something different on an individual level. Henderson with enthusiasm, energy, creativity, possible wingplay and being one for the future, Adam with pinpoint accuracy from set pieces and excellent passing range, creativity and the ability to change play from one side to another and Downing with proper wing play, width, crossing ability, pace and give the team more balance.

The sum of all this will parts make us a better team regarding pass and move, but will also give us more strings to play on. Teams will find it harder to play against us as we'll plenty of more options. And that is the key here. Forget about the names of the players, that doesnt matter. Its what they bring to the team collectivly and individually.

Andy Carroll will enjoy the lads crossing ability, but Suarez and Gerrard will get as much out of their ability to spot a pass or keep the ball on the ground. In other words we can score goals from all over the pitch and have signed players that will add to the total goal tally.

Try looking at the bigger picture. Its starting to look pretty fricking good.
[/quote]
Well said that man.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1364800#msg1364800 date=1310629954]
FFS Andy Carroll is actually quite good on the ground too you know? People making out we've just got a floating head up top
[/quote]

TonyHarrisonsmall.png
 
I know that he'll improve us and I can see how good his stats are, but it still feels like we bought a cop or a snooker player or an accountant.
 
Still not sure about this, Henderson + Downing = Aguero?
Let's hope it works but everytime we bought players to do a job in the last 7yrs, it hasn't really moved the team onto a new level.
 
Well well well.
Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam (and the manchild Henderson) represents (along with Sexuarez and Carroll) 100m of investment.

What is clear is that we WILL have a shitloads of players who can pass the ball and pass it quickly.
In:
Adam
Meireles
Aquilani
Gerrard
Suarez
Maxi
Downing
and
Cole
we certainly have speed of thought. All of those players will fit into a pass and move philosophy.
Not only that but in Carroll we have an option.
This squad we have built can play a lot of different styles. Its got steel to be tough to break down, its got flair by the bucketload, its got a 'big number 9' for long ball, its got WIDTH (im suprised that word doesnt have a spam filter) but most importantly its got technically very proficient footballers.

I wouldnt have signed Downing. I wouldnt have signed Adam or Henderson for that matter but i can see the logic in the signings. Im not just blindly going to say Kenny knows what he is doing, HOWEVER...........in January he earned the right to a chance to do it his way. No one could have seen the turnaround he affected in our play (that is to say we were the 2nd best team in the league from January to May and would have been first but for the two defeats when we had nothing worth playing for at the end) NOONE. And that was with the squad we all thought was fucking wank.
So far he has added:
Insua
Aquilani
Henderson
Downing
Adam
Degen
and
Pacheco
to that same 'wank' squad
and got rid of:
Jovanovic
Konchesky.

SOooooo i dont think anyone can argue in any way shape or form that we havnt massively improved as a squad since January, if you throw in Carroll and Suarez we have improved as a first team no doubt.
There are more to go for sure (Poulsen, Degen etc) and probably more to come (Mata, Dann, Enrique....) so we are progressing. So fair play to Kenny and the board, they are backing their gut i suppose with huge financial outlay. Im just a fan. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and i will certainly support these lads coming in, because if Kenny knows what he's doing...........this might just work.
 
at the very least it's refreshing that we're still able to deals with Comolli , Kenny and Ayre in Asia . They probably have better battery life then parry did .
 
Don't forget aswell, he's promoted Robinson and Flanno to the first team squad which has saved us on purchasing backups, whereas another manager might not have had the balls to do it. We could probably see the same again with the likes of Coady and co, so already the squad itself is looking a whole lot better and we've got much more depth.
 
We identified our prime target for that position (again), who was not for sale and had two years left on his contract we demonstrated our desire to the player, and got our man.
He is to fill a position that has been a big problem to us for years and years, and comes with good reports, he is a good pro and stays out of the red-tops, which to some makes him a bore , probably the same ones that think Andy Carroll is a risk, he knows this league and has progressed at Villa.
We are not in Europe so our pulling power is weak as far as alternatives go, he actually wanted to come to us , he is not going to get homesick in two years and fuck off to Spain, Italy, Argentina etc we paid a premium, and people have looked at the logic of the situation and might have warmed to the idea..................so what?
Next target please


regards
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44931.msg1364814#msg1364814 date=1310631807]
Don't forget aswell, he's promoted Robinson and Flanno to the first team squad which has saved us on purchasing backups, whereas another manager might not have had the balls to do it. We could probably see the same again with the likes of Coady and co, so already the squad itself is looking a whole lot better and we've got much more depth.
[/quote]I think he didnt really have a choice when he did that Mark. Yes its good that we have these players coming through, but Rafa gets the credit for that for me not the King.
I think testament to Kenny will be that we might not need the kids as soon as we thought to be the next (gerrard, fowler, macca) big thing.
 
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